Please fix Rule 1.
Please fix Rule 1.
A shroom community was removed from lemmy.world as it was considered "illegal" content by the admins. The logic behind this is boggling, to say the least.
Marijuana is considered an illegal substance in some states in the US and is still federally illegal. /c/trees should be banned, correct?
Clown pictures of Putin are absolutely considered illegal in Russia, so that should require and immediate ban.
Freedom of speech can also be considered illegal in some places.
Incest is considered illegal so that should automatically trigger a ban on all incest porn, real or not. Hell, porn is universally taboo, so that shouldn't have any place on this instance, I guess.
You see where I am going with this? Rule 1 is a catch-all and needs clarification. Simply saying something is illegal is not quite enough. Owning and sharing pictures of shrooms is not illegal. Trading spores or mycelium is generally not illegal either.
This is not about me being salty (which I am) about the community being removed and forced to relocate. It's the odd bias that was applied to justify its removal.
Please note that I said fix Rule 1, not remove it. There are some really bad things on the internet that shouldn't use lemmy as a safe haven.
Oof, yeah I fully agree.
We should be able to discus drugs, because whether you like it or not, drugs are part of the world, and part of life of many humans.
Most of us use drugs on a daily or weekly basis. Nicotine, caffeine, alcohol, weed, etc. We should be able to talk about these things.
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Okay I didn't expect stricter rules here than on Reddit honestly.
Lemm.ee is your friend
Me neither, thought 😔🤔 there was gonna be sum kind o freedom or sum shit
Agree 100 percent, just because something is illegal it does not make it illegal to talk about it.
I wish other people were making this point as well. Certain content is illegal various places around the world, and I don't think anyone is saying we want the admins to risk that, but entire communities are - at worst - slightly more prone than others to having users post illegal content. If I post illegal content anywhere, sure, go ahead and remove/ban. But removing discussion of entire topics, just because those communities* might* be places where people might be a little more likely try and post such content, just isn't making sense to me. Isn't it the content, not the name of the channel, that's the issue, or am I missing something?
Y'all could set up on psychedelia.ink instead: "A Lemmy instance for all things psychedelia or psychedelia-adjacent."
There may be other appropriate specialized instances as well, that was just the first one that I noticed.
This is my leaning.
Y'all gotta stop that whining and really lean into the "Blackjacks and Hookers" solution.
Yeah, this is why I like topic-specialized instances:
- They have admins that are actually interested in the topic and will tailor the rules appropriately.
- Hopefully are set up in and administered from friendly jurisdictions, to reduce legal risk.
- Will be less likely to shy away from the risk of (possibly frivolous) legal action, whereas the admins of a general instance are more inclined to play it safe.
We need to think of what we're doing here less as recreating reddit, and more as linking together all those old phpBB-style enthusiast forums.
This is the solution. Communities need to congregate on smaller, like-minded instances. It makes sense to concentrate users on large instances, but communities should be spread out.
I agree, it needs to be more clear about what would be removed.
The piracy instance needs to be reinstated too. The admins of this community make Reddit look good.
Bring back piracy and shrooms or I'm fucking out of here
Ditto.
Attention lemmy.world admins; don't become a spez, that fire is still burning.
Gonna be that guy. But just because something is legal in one place doesn't mean it is legal where the instance/owner is located. And the owner is protecting their own skin, I would do the same. Can also be realted to the host.
So as others have mentioned, it's better to find an instance welcoming this kind of content.
OP's point stands. If that's the case, be specific about it. Have a rule saying no drugs. Otherwise rule 1 is just a vague excuse to ban anything and everything
This is a fair take. If world can't legally host this stuff say so.
Now if it won't do so, because the owner of world is some Puritan, then that also needs to be disclosed so I can immediately stop my donations to the sever.
That is why I am asking for clarification around rule 1. I am sure many people would be glad to comply and start communities on other instances because of local laws and such.
It's an extremely vague rule, is what my point is.
I agree that it would make sense to be more clear. But how clear? List of all things that are illegal? Just those things thay differ from "normal" laws? But then what are we to set as "normal"?
Think the best would be to state where the instance is located and what national and international laws governing it. For example "No illegal content on instace based on German and EU laws".
Yes. I don’t see why this community cannot move to an instance hosted in a jurisdiction where this is legal.
Agreed about the need for clarity. There’s probably nothing that isn’t illegal somewhere. So what’s the standard here?
Just want to also point out that lemmy.world is already a huge instance and these communities would be better if they were spread out to more instances
Yes. I don't see why this community cannot move to an instance hosted in a jurisdiction where this is legal.
Like banning pics n photos of MUSHROOMS whether psychedelic or not is FUCKING BAZAAR to me ... I don't get it... Are amanita mascaria banned, how about blue meanies , or is it just cubes ? Banning nature / biology / science(mycology) is idiotic
Is there magazines about alcohol, vaping and or tobacco ?
Cause I assure You (Lemmy) shrooms been consumed by humans for far longer then any substances that You allow discussions over, and it's one of those organic substances that's more good than bad (obviously it's not for everyone) but it's a great 😃👍 substance... "
"several antibiotics have already been isolated from various mushrooms and microfungi (including penicillin and griseofulvin, which are isolated from microfungi)"
Are you gonna ban the discussion over antibiotics next ?
/SMH
A shroom community? That's disgusting, where?
Not on Lemmy.world, I can tell you that much at least.
I think it's !shrooms@sh.itjust.works now
Thank
Slow down, Mac…
I groan every time this joke gets copied and pasted. It's pretty pathetic.
It's less a joke and more a way to ask for urls with plausible deniability
The Fdiverse already seems to be unraveling.
I always thought the model was flawed. Content from other instances should only be viewable and not copied to all instances.
How would that work? Explain your magical, mystical ways of data transfer and storage oh sage one.
Nah yeah bro, agreed.
The question of legality on Lemmy is something that has to evolve and be discussed because of federation. Stuff on one instance gets replicated on others in other parts of the world. What factors should be the determining ones? The place where the instance is hosted? All the places where the content is replicated? Who is liable? The owner of the originating instance or all the instances that replicate illegal content? If this wasn't free and open, but rather a huge corporation, the fediverse would have a legal team to decide already.
It's almost like our made-up borders and laws are somehow at odds with the fact that, in almost all cases, anyone can access any information from any place these days, and that information is replicated and stored across the globe!
ianal, but I think the precedent is that if you own and serve illegal content then you are liable. I don't think the law ever has or ever will entertain the idea that someone caught with cp on a hard drive and is serving it online shouldn't be held liable. And frankly, I don't think that's something we should entertain either. If there's an inherent legal/moral flaw in the system we should probably change the system before we ask the world to accommodate it. It sounds way too easy to spin up a scapegoat server, purchased anonymously on the other side of the planet, host very illegal content and pipe it through a 'laundering' server that you can openly own and operate with legal impunity. Sure, you'll be caught hosting illegal content, but because it didn't originate from your server you've done nothing wrong? I think the only way the legal questions will go away is if federated servers stop hosting the cached material from federated servers, or at least from the riskiest of servers. Right now the only way to do that is to de-federate but there should be another option.
I aggree. Though, communities like this should be marked NSFW.
The illegal/legal content should be based on instance location.
Incest is considered illegal so that should automatically trigger a ban on all incest porn, real or not
GOOD. This is a plague. Get it out! OUT I SAY!
Sorry. My inner Rick and Morty was leaking.
"For-- for a friend of mine."
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/FKv0gXUN67g
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Isn't it kind of the point of federated communities? Admins of one particular instance can set whatever arbitrary rules they see fit and good for the instance they operate, and in turn everyone else can organise their own instance with their own rules.
I absolutely can understand how an admin based in US doesn't want to answer the questions like "what are all this talks about controlled substances on your server"I bought psilocybin mushrooms legally in Oakland, CA, fwiw. Like a month ago.
We have to admin the admins.
It really doesn’t matter how hard you want to push back on these rules. If the servers for the instance you’re complaining about are there to protect them against laws, granted, misguided laws. For the sake of the longevity of the instance, then, so be it, you have the freedom to take a walk and find a better spot to have a picnic. That’s the benefit of a federated universe.
The problem is you’re never going to control how people use Lemmy the internet treats censorship as if it were damage and routes around it.
The only option is to abide the laws of local jurisdiction. No amount of reddit protesting is going to work in this case. You’re either going to enjoy Lemmy.world or it won’t be your cup of tea and you’ll find another instance. The question is what will it take to boil your frog.
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To be fair, cannabis is legal in a lot of states now despite the slowness of the federal government. Especially medical cannibis. Psilocybin is only legal in two states. It's gonna take a while to catch up.
it's al.illegal in the UK. so maybe it should be banned?
I agree
In this thread there is a whole bunch of chest beating of individuals who don’t really understand what this is yet.
You may or may not have a point, but the beautiful thing is that you can just join a community on another instance that allows that content.
Admins are 100% within their rights to curate their site how they want. But there are many instances, and for the most part you can access all the same content so you don't need to go on a crusade, just find a community on a different instance or create one by first creating an account on that instance (you can even appoint your current account as a mod).
I am all for Admin prerogative and yes, I am joined to other instances and other communities on those instances.
Honestly, this is probably the last time I am going to bitch about this action. However, with lemmy.world being one of the main hubs for lemmy right now, clearer rules should be defined. This admin action was just distasteful and will absolutely not make this instance appealing.
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You may or may not have a point, but the beautiful thing is that you can just join a community on another instance that allows that content.
Technically true but OP is absolutely correct that catch-all rules (and them being enforced like that) hurts our small and hopefully growing platform(s). If communities have to migrate they may just ditch the Fediverse for some corp platform again.
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Unfortunately, the fact of the matter is that freedom of speech is really not an actual thing that actually exists. You’re always unfortunately going to have to hide the bad stuff from the regulators because of their laws in the end all it really does is hides the bad stuff. It doesn’t actually stop the bad stuff.
Your input is fascinating, but misplaced.
The purpose of this thread was for the admins to clarify what actually is illegal. Allowing a marijuana community has the same risks for an admin as pictures of other things like shrooms in other communities.
I personally would like to know where it is illegal to post and talk about any drug, honestly. Especially so if the drugs we are talking about are widely decriminalized.
Growing, selling or trading drugs online is generally illegal. I understand why those kinds of posts should be removed.
While the rules might vary the law is very clear here. Shrooms are a regulated substance and that community is hosted on a site which chooses not to engage in illegal activity, so naturally they are going to want to remove it.
Shrooms are perfectly legal to grow in my jurisdiction. Like others have said, where do you draw the line? Legal is a very vague definition and allows for a lot of grey.
fuck that shit, why is lemmy.world being literally stricter than reddit? staying on kbin for sure
I don't understand why people keep comparing one instance of Lemmy to reddit? I think it's missing the point. You can still make a plea to the instance admins, but it's still their choice. Just as you have plenty of other instances to join.
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You are totally missing the point, just like you missed the point in your last deleted post.
I think we all want to see most instances and communities thrive. With this being the most "mainstream" instance, it gives many users their first glimpse into Lemmy and the rest of the federation. If the first thing people see is the same shitty admin actions that Reddit was known for, they puts a huge damper on adaptation.
If the first few days are spent looking for an instance where their communities and comments won't get banned, it just makes for a shitty experience.
Nice photo, shows his more telling qualities.
Why don't you join an instance that allows it? e.g. c/uncle_bens@lemmy.ml
Already on that instance and there is a post by me where I am converting the UB Tek instructions from Reddit. ;)
The main concern is the odd way that Rule 1 is being applied, s'all.
Well, the thing about the fediverse is that each instance has its quirks and particularities. In principle, each instance on its own would be shittier than reddit, but it's the distributed structure, the freedom to vote with your feet, roam between them and to see each other even when one server is down that makes this protocol so refreshing compared with social media. I still think it's good of you to ask.
There's nothing wrong with having active discussion about how the largest Lemmy instance is being run. Maybe it'll even nudge the admin to reflect on their policy choices, you never know.
not looking likely, the way they're going, but like the zen master said... we'll see.
I'm agreeing with the mods, if we gonna go the weed vs shrooms route.
Whats the worst that can happen on a bad trip on either of them
E: for anyone downvoting, I've never heard of someone walking from a rooftop because of a bad weed or edible trip
This isn't about determining which drugs are now dangerous, as we would then need to ban all discussion around alcohol, the most dangerous drug.
Have you ever researched Cannabis-induced psychosis? I can assure you that plenty of people have done so