Hasbro Seeks to Sell IP “DND” and Has Had Preliminary Contact with Tencent
Hasbro Seeks to Sell IP “DND” and Has Had Preliminary Contact with Tencent
American toy company Hasbro is seeking to sell its well-known IP
Rumours, speculation and hearsay? "Interesting" at least.
Not a chance. It's one of only two properties Hasbro has that makes any money at all.
Edit: not to mention that the article only refers to "DND" which is only used colloquially and never by the company itself. It's either D&D or Dungeons (and|&) Dragons
Does D&D make them a lot of money, though? I know the movie did well and licensing fees gained from BG3 must be pretty good, but those aren't really the norm exactly. WoTC makes good money as a whole but I honestly figured that was mostly MTG, cardboard and ink is dirt cheap compared to how much a booster pack costs lmao
Actually I believe the movie did pretty badly. It was reviewed fairly well by critics and fans who actually went to go see it, but unfortunately it was squeezed between a couple of other popular IP's at the time (I think it was John Wick and the Mario movie). But hopefully it helped them with streaming or something.
I think I ended up watching it on Paramount+ in the hopes that it'll encourage them to make more in the future. Plus it was wholesome enough I thought it might be able to go into my comfort movie rotation with Princess Bride and Stardust. (Although now that I think about it, I should just buy a physical copy.)
The most valuable thing about D&D is the brand. So if there's one thing they definitely wouldn't sell, it would be the IP.
Hollywood accounting is weird as fuck, but the general ballpark is that a movie needs to make double its budget at the box office to break even.
On a budget of $150 million, D&D made $93.3 million in the United States and Canada, and $114.9 million in the rest of the world, for a worldwide total of $208.2 million.
Now, because of the complicated relationship between WotC/Hasbro and Paramount, some have speculated these numbers may not be as dire as they would be in an original IP. And of course the home viewing market is a huge part of the equation these days. So it's entirely possible the film did break even or even make a small profit. But sadly, it was not a commercial success.
Which is a shame, because it was so good. As a fantasy movie fan. As a D&D fan. And even as a Forgotten Realms fan.
"DND", interestingly, is also how Dungeons & Dragons is referred to in Chinese translations and references. (Because the actual translation of the name itself sounds stupid.)
It’s one of only two properties Hasbro has that makes any money at all.
How comes that Hasbro can make money with D&D ? We know that most of the RPG end-up costing money to their author or bringing them a revenue way under the hourly minimal wage. I know D&D is big and expensive compared to other RPG, so hopefully they bring money. But basically with the 3 base books, you have a few 100 hours of play for 5 persons. So doesn't look like a good investment for a large company.
I mean, yes there is Baldur's gate and the movie. but looks like the kind of IP which can be worth nothing in a decade if you don't keep the game alive
You wouldn't think DnD would be that expensive to make. It's just printing books with a couple game designer authors and game testers involved. But selling books also doesn't make much money.
I think the trick to making money is definitely the licensing. It's an IP everyone's knows and lots of nerds love. Whenever someone doesn't know what to buy me for a birthday or Christmas present they get me some DnD crap and honestly, I usually appreciate it lol. I love my dumb DnD dice ice tray, pajama pants, cool looking minis I pretend I'll one day paint, or beholder waffle iron. It's stupid shit I'll never buy myself but makes a good gift. A good VTT will also help and I know they're working on that, but software devs are expensive so that feels like more of a gamble. Especially if it only works DnD 5e while the others in the market can work with any game.
Are you having a stroke?
Maybe Hasbro is finally realizing that they never understood why D&D is valuable, and are coming to the conclusion that they’ll never be able to monetize it properly.
With seemingly-comparable game franchises, a lot of the value is in either a business model that’s good at generating consistent sales (selling cards or miniatures) and/or the setting and characters that can be used to sell merchandise. D&D has neither. No one really cares that much about the D&D lore, and the business model is selling books that aren’t even that necessary to play the game.
The value in the D&D franchise is that the game mechanics (which aren’t protected by IP laws) are well-known by a large user base, plus there’s a lot of existing material that is compatible with that system. People play D&D because lots of people already know how to play, and it’s easy to find material to play with. Stuff like Baldur’s Gate is popular incidentally, mostly because the developers have been good at making games, but no one is going to get excited about a mediocre D&D game in the same way that people would for a 40k game.
Hasbro has shown that they don’t understand this dynamic. When they tried to monetize the game system itself with the OGL nonsense, people just said “Okay, I guess I’ll just switch to a different RPG system” because of course that’s what you’d do. The community is interested in the hobby, not the franchise, and if the franchise is going to make it difficult to engage with the hobby, then the hobbyists, including content creators who do a lot of the heavy lifting to keep the franchise relevant, will go elsewhere.
Hasbro likely thought they could take D&D and do the usual “we have this user base and we can get X amount from merch, Y amount from video games, Z amount from some sort of subscription service, etc.” not realizing that no one actually cares that much about D&D as a franchise, at least not in the same way as with stuff like Warhammer or Star Wars. It’s a hobbyists hobby, and the hobbyists aren’t going to go full “consooom!” on D&D lunchboxes and funko pops.
TTRPGs are, to their credit, extremely difficult to monetize. It’s hard to squeeze money out of a game when the players can buy a couple of PDFs and then play for years, only buying new material when there’s an update or a setting book that looks interesting to them. It’s a bad business, which makes it a terrific hobby, and I wish Hasbro a very lmao get owned if they do try to pass it along to someone else.
So excited for DnD fans to get even more racist
Hasbro has no clue what to do with the game since their games-as-service, closed ecosystem plan went kaput after they backed down on the OGL revision (which would have been necessary to shut out other VTTs and ensure player & DM subscriptions). I think the recent lay offs of senior people in the D&D related teams suggests this as well. This article doesn't seem well sourced at all, but a shake-up would be very interesting at this point.
Side-stepping some of the speculation and impact on the traditional market/fanbase, I am curious about the interest in D&D in China, as a Tencent acquisition would presumably make it much easier to market the game there. From the searching I've done, there doesn't seem to be a ton of interest in D&D, and there's no official translation into Mandarin. The movie didn't do great at the Chinese box office, although Baldur's Gate 3 did fine? Obviously, if Tencent does put together a subsidiary to design a version for the Chinese market, I'm not sure if they'd want to start by translating/adapting existing books or using the ruleset to design a bespoke version (either with a fantasy setting or based on relevant Chinese IP.)
I was in China for two years and not once ever found anything related to actual role playing games ever. Anywhere. And I really looked. There is a market there, waiting to be created, and I'm not surprised one bit that Tencent would be interested in that. But as other people have mentioned, monetizing that stuff is gonna be a challenge. I sure am looking forward to it, though. Especially once I get good enough at Chinese. I dream of the day I have a level strong enough to help translating games there...
You didn't look hard enough. It's ALL OVER TAOBAO.
Perhaps you didn't look in the right places?
Here's a search for "DND". (I ran the search through Google Translate for you.)
Here's a search for "克苏鲁" (Cthulhu). (Again with the Google Translate.)
Here's a search for "TRPG". (Google Translate again!)
So if you really looked, you might have tried instead really looking where people actually go to buy these things. Different country, different customs, different ways of doing things.
edited to fix up images that my screen capture tool screwed up
Larian Studios (30% owned by Tencent) was attempting to buy D&D. They weren't able to afford it, and to they pulled Tencent into the negotiation. I don't know if that means Hasbro actually is interested in selling - though it's hard to see a world where they're not. https://massivelyop.com/2024/01/31/hasbro-is-selling-the-dungeons-and-dragons-ip-and-tencent-is-the-potential-buyer/
However, Wizards of the Coast is saying that they don't intend to sell, as of an hour ago: https://www.pcgamer.com/wizards-of-the-coast-dispels-rumours-that-tencent-wants-to-gobble-up-dandd-like-a-tarrasque-to-be-clear-we-are-not-looking-to-sell-our-dandd-ip/
OP, could you please do the responsible thing and update the title and body of this post with a disclaimer that Hasbro has outright denied these rumours. They were clearly baseless from the beginning, but I'm glad to see them make an official statement to get out in front of it.
If this is true, can't wait to hear all the gamer-brained dorks whining because Tencent is a Chinese company. As if they can't handle it worse than Hasbro has already.
In Tencent's favor I haven't really heard about them mismanaging properies or being too heavyhanded when it comes to squeezing out profitability.
Do I want DnD to be owned and controlled by another multinational holding company? No. Will it matter to me? Not really. But I do enjoy the drama.
Yeah, at best it'll be acquired by a company that won't totally enshittify it, whoever that is. It's a big enough game that some form of enshittification is inevitable, though.
Tencent is going to release Dark Souls 4
They can and their existing track record suggests they will be worse than Hasbro.
@Kbin_space_program @tissek @LaGG_3 elaborate
Keep it on-topic. This is not the place for flamewars about exactly how bad China's human rights abuses are.
Honestly? This doesn't necessarily sound like a bad thing. Hasbro has been fucking up DND left and right because they simply don't understand it. At the same time, it's a valuable IP with quite a bit of potential in the right hands, and they haven't killed is through mismanagement yet or even close to. If they sell it for a fair value to someone who won't fuck it up, and use that money to specialize in some things they know what to do with, then it could be win-win for the business guys and for the players.
(Of course the question of what they could specialize in that they do know how to make money with is a whole different elephant in the room.)
(Edit: And yes, the chance that Tencent will find a way to ruin it in the name of microtransactions income, and just do a more competent job with that than Hasbro has, is a pretty good one.)
Yes because a Chinese multinational corporation is going to any better...
Not every big conglomerate is just a relentless fuckup machine. Baldur's Gate 3 was made by (edit:
a Tencent subsidiary) a studio partly owned by Tencent. I'm not saying they won't fuck it up, just that there's no reason to assume out of the gate that they automatically will. And, it's legitimately a little hard to see them doing worse than Hasbro has been so far.
Found the person that has never heard of TenCent before.
Most of my knowledge of them comes from this video which I found to be pretty in-depth for a clickbaity Youtube watch. But yes, I've heard of them.
I notice that the culture here is that everyone's an expert on everything, surrounded by people who need to be enlightened by their knowledge. I feel out of place, I'm the only one who's not that, I guess.
Moving to an even larger company that has less experience with physical "fun" products isn't likely to be good for the core game. D&D is already at odds with the hardcore community despite the success of the movie and BG3.They don't need more licensed content, they need to rethink their creative process and how they interact with the core tabletop community. I just don't see how Tencent is the place for that.
Tencent will microtransaction the hell out of it.
They are the worst thing in the gaming industry and absolutely need to be taken out back and legislataively shot.
Hasbro selling it is in theory not a bad thing. Them selling it to Tencent is an awful idea.
Yeah, probably so. The people in this thread convinced me.
Yeah but ten cent?
Yes, it is a bad thing. D&D needs to be back in the hands of a responsible company and steward, and neither Hasbro nor Tencent are it.