Steam keeps on winning
Last year, they all came crawlin' back to Steam, and this year was another strong one for Valve.
From the opinion piece:
Last year, I pointed out how many big publishers came crawlin' back to Steam after trying their own things: EA, Activision, Microsoft. This year, for the first time ever, two Blizzard games released on Steam: Overwatch and Diablo 4.
I know everyone loves Valve, but it feels super weird to be celebrating a monopoly so much and so ferociously. (I know Steam isn't a technical monopoly. We don't need to have that discussion)
Gaben is old, and he's gonna retire. It'll likely be a lot sooner than anyone here is comfortable with. When Valve gets sold, or even when gaben isn't in total control anymore, things are going to start changing, and there isn't going to be a healthy, diverse marketplace to soften that.
There is a very good chance that the PC platform will be a really horrible place because of the lack of consumer choice in which they can purchase and play games.
This genuinely doesn't get talked about enough. Steam is a private company and Gabe Newell seems to be the de facto "head" of the company, despite its famously "flat" management structure. There is no guarantee a new leader will have the same values or lead the same way. There is ripe opportunity for Steam to become a steaming pile of shit. I don't know about the exact ownership structure beyond Newell, but unless the employees are far more empowered through things like ownership stake in the company, new leadership could effectively destroy how things currently work at Valve to be replaced by any number of terrible business decisions.
Gabe is old as hell. It's coming.
Gabe is only 61. But based on his size he will probably go from health issues from that sooner than old age will get a skinnier Gabs.
That’s because at a certain point things like this should just become services.
But that’s wildly against capitalists mindset so…
This genuinely doesn’t get talked about enough. Steam is a private company and Gabe Newell seems to be the de facto “head” of the company, despite its famously “flat” management structure. There is no guarantee a new leader will have the same values or lead the same way. There is ripe opportunity for Steam to become a steaming pile of shit. I don’t know about the exact ownership structure beyond Newell, but unless the employees are far more empowered through things like ownership stake in the company, new leadership could effectively destroy how things currently work at Valve to be replaced by any number of terrible business decisions.
Agreed, further the behavior of valve has to be understood like that of bandcamp before it was sold, an anomaly in a capitalist system that is vastly underperforming and dysfunctional from the perspective of those with money and power. It isn't, valve is doing great (so was bandcamp) but and I really want to stress this point for the naive gamers here who dont have a very well developed sense of the political realities of capitalism as an ideology (as opposed to some "natural order" of commerce or trade), it doesnt matter if valve is in its most profitable state right now. When it falls under the control of different rich business people it will immediately begin having its heart ripped out, rationality actually comes a lot less into the picture than you think if you believe in economics as a pure science rather than a belief system that uses more math and acronyms than most.
If there arent robust alternatives to valve then, it will be a big step back.
It's not Steam's fault if their competitors can't make a good product. Steam is still the only one with Linux support.
Next CEO will literally just kill the program and pocket the money. Saying they need to focus on their core windows users, times are hard, “the economy”
In an ideal world, if Gaben was a real saint, he would turn Steam into a foundation or steward-owned purpose organization before he retires, that can't be sold.
Steams biggest competition isn't another launcher, it's piracy. Gabe is wise enough to know that, if the next guy to take over is a chode they'll learn the hard way.
Absolutely. I have not pirated a single game since I got steam. Before that it was almost exclusively pirated games. no shops close by, and buying on mail order took FOREVER! and was very much hit or miss.. And impossible to return.
I did buy most of the games that i enjoyed, and played a lot. Since i wanted the box on the shelf. but i still played the pirated version. since that was much easier then puling out the book and look at the 5th word on the 3rd paragraph on page 121 for the copy protection. :)
It's absolutely weird and unhealthy to celebrate it.
Gaben is old, and he's gonna retire. It'll likely be a lot sooner than anyone here is comfortable with. When Valve gets sold, or even when gaben isn't in total control anymore, things are going to start changing, and there isn't going to be a healthy, diverse marketplace to soften that.
This is it. Look at history and every major company in the past 200 years. Once the shift happens, it all goes to hell. And yet people are still shouting about some "Steam Victory" like wtf?
Nothing lasts forever, but occasionally things can hang on for awhile. Nintendo isn't quite the beloved company they were a few decades ago, but they've been doing ok for the past ~130 years.
Meh, I think there are some private companies that manage to remain vigilant in their purpose even as leaders change.
In my opinion, most problems happen the second a company goes public. So I'm just hoping that Valve never chooses to go public and is thus never legally beholden to shareholder interests.
I agree with all your points... but... IMHO some things keeping Steam honest are services like GoG and if course the High Seas, but more than that there's the plethora of other entertainment options.
This isn't housing, air, or water. A person can just not play if it's too much hassle or too costly. If Steam or any given entertainment option isn't worth using, people just won't. There's no shortage of things to do other than play games, much less use Steam for gaming.
I agree that we shouldn't imagine Steam will never change, nor should we blindly worship or glorify Valve/GabeN. I just think that games and entertainment generally is an arena where market forces actually work to benefit the consumer.
Of course employment practices and company culture is a whole 'nother thing...
There is a very good chance that the PC platform will be a really horrible place because of the lack of consumer choice in which they can purchase and play games.
I agree with the sentiment that Steam will eventually have a shitification, but I remain optimistic because the PC platform is more open than mobile platforms.
GOG and Humble are existing, smaller stores. Microsoft had three stores they use to sell and install games. Half of the FAANG companies would love to get in on this space if an opportunity showed itself. If we get past high interest rates, I can see VCs getting in on this space.
It won't be pretty and we can support smaller options now. But I don't think it'll be horrible.
It is technically a monopoly, you don't need 100% market share to be considered one otherwise Google wouldn't be considered a monopoly but it is.
In the Epic trial, Google made some of the same arguments as those used to defend Steam, like the presence of competing stores or the claim that it wins people over by the quality of the product.
Epic's expert made these relevant points:
Google impairs competition without preventing it entirely
Google’s conduct targets competition as it emerges
Google is dominant
And we know who won in the antitrust case. Let's see what happens in Wolfire et al v. Valve.
One day, Valve will be under different ownership, and we will regret the time we fought for their monopoly.
That will be a shame for already purchased Steam libraries, but because the PC is an open platform and their "monopoly" is drastically overstated, it might just be the opportunity for GOG to rise up. Or maybe even Epic, if it actually bothers doing better. Valve can't, and won't ever be able to completely control where people buy PC games.
You know, as opposed to consoles like Playstation, which, if you don't like how they are doing business, you just gotta deal with it.
I wouldn't call it fighting for a monopoly. It's just that for the last decade people have been doing exactly what everyone keeps saying to do, voting with their wallet. Steam isn't a clear market leader because people wanted it to be, it's one because every competitor has not put in the effort to compete but rather chosen to be shitty towards the customer rather than be beneficial to the customer.
It's just fanboyism. Everyone shits on PS and Xbox users, but PC gamers weren't privy to the fact that the PC master race trope was meant mockingly and kinda just ran with it. Now they stan a corporation.
I know Steam isn’t a technical monopoly. We don’t need to have that discussion
That's one way to swat away all criticism about the premise of your comment....
When Valve gets sold, or even when gaben isn’t in total control anymore, things are going to start changing, and there isn’t going to be a healthy, diverse marketplace to soften that.
Considering the fact that Steam is not a monopoly and alternate storefronts continue to exist (Microsoft will not stop selling games individually on their own store even if it's just an afterthought to GamePass but it's the same platform as GamePass), there will be alternatives to Steam if Valve turns anti-consumer. There is little actual loyalty among gamers. Just look at Blizzard: At one point their customer base was almost as die hard as Nintendo's and it took only a couple of years to throw that away. (I noticed it when the audience actually booed at the Diablo Immortal reveal.)
Yep.
People fanboy over Steam endlessly without realizing that with time, it will turn to shit as well.
More competition is good, and maybe Epic is shit today but if their leadership changes then maybe it could actually significantly improve and surpass Steam.
But if it doesn't exist, then if Steam turns to shit then you're much more likely to just be stuck with shit.
I guess we'll see how this shakes out in the coming years. God willing, not much will change.
Newell is only 61, and an avid gamer with a lot of demonstrable business intelligence. I wouldn't worry too much.
Only? I mean people die in their 50s and 60s all the time. You never know. I just hope the one that takes over has the same morals as Gabe.
The only reason I support them as a monopoly is because they are the closest thing to an ethical/moral capitalist company around. They are proof positive that treating employees, customers, and vendors fairly can lead to an obscenely strong company with profit margins that the amoral assholes out there looking for every way to shaft everyone to make an extra penny can are envious of.
From what I understand discussing the issue with friends who run game studios and deal with Valve/Steam, the employees pretty much have his mindset from the bottom to the top of the org chart. He has been smart in who he hires and who is promoted so leadership is not a bunch of sniveling money grubbers who will sell out immediately when he retires. 🤞
Nothing lasts forever.
Plus, we have enough games. Shut it down, play old games lol
I know Steam isn't a technical monopoly
They try hard to monopolize mods for that. An issue especially with GoG & Steam multireleases; they hog all the mods (community work) on their Workshop.
There's no good company, only less shitty ones.
Btw, some sort of "optional Peer to Peer", where volunteers host the platform P2P and everyone else can log in normally, does something like that exist?
To have a decentral platform for mods, against the near duopoly of Steam Workshop/Nexus.
I’m not celebrating a monopoly, I’m celebrating a good platform for consumers. Steam likely knows that if it angers people its monopoly is ripe for a ton of regulation, at least in the European market where PC gaming is huge.
They've been hit with an anti trust lawsuit in Europe, lost and didn't cooperate and instead paid some more.
They offer refunds because they got sued for it.
They've introduced more and more ways to monetize whales and to trigger people's dopamine secretion to get them to buy more games.
Valve is still a company that aims to make profits, it's not your friend.
I know Steam isn't a technical monopoly. We don't need to have that discussion
Yet you still refer to it as such. 🤦♂️
I've been weaning myself off of Steam for years now.
I only use it at this point for games I've already bought and games that are exclusive to Steam, like TF2.
Anything else I just download for free.
So many viruses.
Epic bought rocket league and promptly tanked it in favor of their stupid fortniteverse. Maybe steam keeps winning because they're not actively screwing over their customers.
Or Pheonix Point, where Epic bought an kickstarter game that was funded under the promise of releasing on Steam, GOG and potentially other stores and promptly made it exclusive - and this was in the early days when their launcher/store was in a much worse state too.
Rocket League is such an easy slam dunk of a game. The mechanics are so good there should be a family of game modes (like Turbo Golf Racing) that surround the core game mode that have spawned entirely new genres of car games by now. Almost no other video game has a core gamefeel as locked in as Rocket League and honestly Epic should be ashamed Rocket League isnt a household name like minecraft by now.
Epic bought rocket league and promptly tanked it in favor of their stupid fortniteverse.
Sadly Valve is guilty of a similar thing. Valve bought Campo Santo and (at least that's the public statement) the developers were free to work on whatever projects and chose HL Alyx instead of that new game after Firewatch. Game development gets cancelled all the time and perhaps the new game just wasn't that good.
There must be more to success than that, because Valve likewise bought Campo Santo, the developer of Firewatch, and now their next game is all but canceled. These companies can't help but focus on their big money makers at the expense of all else.
All I can find about their next game is called "In the Valley of Gods" which looks like it is still being developed. What game was cancelled? Also how is that the same as buying an IP then running it into the ground so their main IP can get a mildly popular game mode that will likely be forgotten about in a couple months? I'm already bored of rocket racing and I only installed it because a friend kept begging me to play fortnite zero build which I also don't enjoy.
Maybe steam keeps winning because they’re not actively screwing over their customers
Idk, they are kinda screwing over the publishers. But that doesn't impact the users buying the game, so they don't care. Which I guess the percentage they take is worth the value they bring, given so many keep selling on steam.
I'm glad steam and gog exist. Both provide an amazing service.
Especially GOG being DRM free but they really need a Linux client.
I'm fine with them existing, but if there are clauses preventing publishers from proposing their games both on steam and elsewhere while they can't make it cheaper elsewhere, I would like these clauses to stop. I read somewhere there are such clauses and these kind of clauses seem very uncompetitive to me and I wonder why they are legal (if they are).
I don't see a problem with it. Steam provides a ton of service as a marketplace and distributor. The social aspect of steam friends seeing what games you're playing translates into advertising for your game. They allow for regional pricing adjustments so it's not about blocking players from poorer countries from affording the game. And they have huge frameworks for digital item trading, achievement management, community discussion, modding and more. Their 30% cut of each sale policy is unilaterally enforced and in line with the fees charged by the VAST majority of other distributors. They don't make exclusivity deals in exchange for taking a smaller cut, unlike some much less consumer-friendly markets. Their market is completely fair across the board. I think it's also pretty fair to ask publishers not to push that 30% fee onto the consumer, by requiring the price on Steam to not exceed the price on any other marketplace.
That policy is to the benefit of steam customers, because they can be reasonably sure the steam price is the best price (currently) available. It's not about exclusivity, it's about protecting the value that Steam offers to the consumer.
Has that lawsuit gone anywhere? I've seen games published on origin and GoG for cheaper then they are on Steam. And Steam will honor developer provided game keys (hence why places like Humble and Green Man can sell games so cheaply). And after trying to research the claims, all I found was reports about the lawsuit existing. It seems like if that was real, there would be more than reports of a lawsuit and contradictory evidence by way of literally being able to buy games for cheaper on other platforms.
Not saying it's total bullshit, just seems kind of suspect all things considered.
This isn’t really that hot of a take. Steam does keep winning and it’s because of convenience for consumers. Valve also is probably the best of those companies when it comes to not violating rights. I really hope when Gaben passes the torch for valve ownership that it’s someone with his vision and priorities
Steam does keep winning and it’s because of convenience for consumers.
As a Linux user, nothing else comes even close. I can read on ProtonDB if I can expect a Windows game to just work, and more often than not, it does.
GOG is also a great concept, and somewhat Linux friendly, but it doesn't have the Steam "click and play" convenience.
Epic Game Store however, has been decidedly Linux hostile for some reason??? As I see it, Steam and GOG are for gamers, Epic Game Store is for business. It would be a dark day for gamers, if Epic ever became dominant.
The contributions Valve has made to Linux really, really can't be understated.
It's been 20 years of the joke "It's finally the year of the Linux Desktop" and Valve took the desktop for a miss and made 2023 "the year of the Linux Portable PC Gaming Handheld."
Steam and GoG are not just free services for gamers either. At their core they are businesses, and they invest significantly to try and make people spend more/get addicted to their services.
I hate this whole idea that some companies are your friend. That just shows their marketing and branding is working on people and blinding people.
Valve is also a privately held company, unlike most (all?) of the other big players. Therefore they don't have the ever present drive and threat of "the line must always go up" to contend with. Valve can do whatever the fuck they feel like, however the fuck they feel like, and as long as they're bringing in enough revenue to keep the lights on and keep Gabe Newell in Acapulco shirts and Cheetos, or whatever his jam is, there's nothing anybody can do about it.
They can gamble and release a VR headset or two, and if it's not a huge success, who cares? There are no shareholders breathing down their necks. They can support the Linux community and if it pisses of Microsoft, or whoever, so what? They want to wait 16+ years before getting around to releasing the sequel to their flagship franchise? There is no boardroom pushing them to slap it together and shove it out the door before Christmas, so they can just do that. Etc.
All true, but Gabe is old and the de facto leader. What happens when he goes? Do employees have stake in the company to make sure the way things work don't change? Will a new leader want to "shake things up" to be able to "claim ownership" over what is happening at the company? (This is something many many managers do, and it's bad management, but it's so so common)
There's still ripe opportunity for things to go south here.
GOG is also good for consumers, too (in some ways, moreso than Steam, like DRM-free games with install files) but it doesn't get the same love. I understand why, Steam was already the market leader, has a way more polished product, and GOG really still focused on "what's in the name" of Good Old Games. Most of their catalogue seems to be focused on older titles, which definitely makes it seemingly more catered to an older, classic gaming audience.
I love the idea of gog but they need to invest in their own store. They need to make a client that's worth a damn, or make the website work better, or both. I routinely forget that gog exists, if I had a client on my computer with a store that worked I would probably give them more money. Getting old games from gog working on Linux is usually fine but new releases are often a shit show. Lack of steam deck support really kills my willingness to buy from them. I will never enjoy downloading X amounts of 4gb files to run a game, just use a better protocol like BitTorrent or something. I don't think it's fair to consumers that the best gog clients are 3rd party, unsupported and receive zero funding from CPR for making gog a usable platform.
I don't like monopolies, but it's hard to argue that any other service offers the same value to the end user.
Well yeah, because gog is selling games ethically... That's great, I think it's good that they exist, and if I want a specific game I'll often go to them first
But that's kind of the limit... They don't have much power, they advocate against drm and all, but I don't see them fighting in the courts or the media the way the EFF always leads the charge.
That's fine - they're a store, and like a local shop, I'd rather give them my business than a chain
Steam gets so much praise because they're Walmart, but instead of destroying the local economy, they go out of their way to add value to it and lower the barriers of entry for everyone. They're a monopoly that goes out of their way to improve the industry they dominate, including by improving competition
I’ve said this before but as soon as Valve becomes a public company, immediately start protesting and sailing.
They were the company who had people who recognized that they already did all of their ideas and their best bet was to get out of the way for the next generation of developers. The other studios are apparently run by narcissists who still think they are at the top of their game. The world could learn a big lesson from Valve.
It's not narcissism. It is a rational decision with major upside if you can pull off building your own storefront and launcher. If you can stop paying steam 30 percent of every sale, and have direct access to the user for data collection and targeted advertising, you try to execute. There is a ton of upside for Epic, EA, or Ubisoft to go direct to consumer and not have a middle man (and possibly be the middle man for others).
This is pretty much what I said would happen in some other threads. EGS came and portrayed itself as a savior or developers, but the cost of solution comes from consumers. They didn't try to compete in quality of service or features, but spent hundreds of millions on exclusive deals. Who in their right mind would switch from something like Steam where sole focus is the consumer.
Yes, Steam takes a huge percentage but it's not like anyone is forcing developers to go there. Developers go there because that's where the people are. And people are there because they get many more benefits for the same or lower price. Steam offers so many conveniences and features it's hard to list them all. From cloud saves to Proton, chat, family sharing and so on.
Steam Input is another underrated feature, makes use of any controller plug and play.
What's funny though is that a game was exclusive to the Epic Games Store, the devs of the game recommended to launch the game launcher via steam to use steam input as EGS or game had some controller detection issues lol
But like seriously, it's 2024, all games should support all controllers natively, without the need for steam input/rewasd/ds4windows etc
While some games do support dualsense and dualshock natively, but they don't support switch controller?!
If Epic had required developers to, say, sell games 15% cheaper (they only take a 12% cut instead of 30%, so the devs would still win out!) then they could have had a really cool argument on their hands. "Look how much Steam costs you as the consumer just from them enriching themselves!". Then the dearth of features would have been excusable, sure the shop is shit and does ˜nothing but hey, 10% cheaper in return!
Instead, as you say, they wanted to completely brute-force consumers onto the platform by putting their big fortnite money dick on the table, and it backfires and they spent a ton of money on a fat load of nothing.
Plus they've nicely trained their consumers that all the EGS client is for is launching it once on Thursdays to get your free game. Not the thing you want customers to associate with your supposedly money-making scheme.
If Epic had required developers to, say, sell games 15% cheaper
Epic cannot do that because
In response to one inquiry from a game publisher, in another example, Valve explained: “We basically see any selling of the game on PC, Steam key or not, as a part of the same shared PC market- so even if you weren’t using Steam keys, we’d just choose to stop selling a game if it was always running discounts of 75% off on one store but 50% off on ours. . . .”
(source)
However, Epic regularly offers coupons out of pocket. Right now you can get 33% off any game above $14.99 or the regional equivalent, as many times as you want, even if the game is already discounted by the publisher. You also get 10% as cashback.
Thursday games: they made that harder. I'd have to login in again and 2FA every week. I stopped doing that because it wasn't worth my time. Uninstalled EGL and didn't install it on my new computer. Not worth it.
And you can properly UNINSTALL games on steam. Epic is a joke when it comes to this. Have to right click and delete folder contents like it’s a 90s version of hacking a game illegally downloaded. They just need a little key generator with an 80s game sound you can’t mute. I thoroughly hate my experience with epic. Archaic POS.
Buuttt Alorn Waek 2 is great!
Fuck Epic with a rusty shovel.
It's funny that back in 2009 Gabe Newell was talking about the focus on the customer, and making the DRM be above all useful and do things that benefit customers instead of just benefitting the developer/publisher.....and here we are today where people really don't give a shit about the revenue split, but the fact that Steam is an extremely convenient and useful platform that does a lot of legwork for the end users that people don't even think about anymore.
Epic is trying to wave a banner of revolution, where we the end users just want our shit to work and run nicely. Obligatory mention of Linux here as well, where it seems Valve is truly trying to foster an ecosystem that benefits customers as opposed to fucking them over. That's in lieu of the Polygon hit-piece https://www.polygon.com/2017/5/16/15622366/valve-gabe-newell-sales-origin-destructive where they point out the scummy things Valve has done.....but if you take Valve away you're left with a barren landscape of shitty publishers that actively treat customers awful with none of the good things Valve does.
Such a weak article. One of the arguments is that valve is awful because... people talk about steam sales, thus giving them free marketing.
Personally, I just don't want to have to use 6 different game stores/launchers and I'm happy with steam. Just having game pass also is enough to illustrate how much of a pain it would be, since I've bought a bunch of games and have later noticed I could have tried them for free on the Xbox app.
Man, you weren't kidding. Their strongest argument was that valve can run steam for essentially free, which is just fucking ridiculous. Valve defined content service in the 21st century, they paved the way for streaming and netflix. How anyone that is arguing in good faith can think reliably serving data thats 10x-100x larger than a Netflix stream is 'basically free' is unbelievable.
Also, it is not "pulling out all the stops" to drag out an international business court case if that case took eighteen months. I've seen international filings where you havent even gotten a hearing date after 18 months, what in the hell is the author smoking...
That’s in lieu of the Polygon hit-piece https://www.polygon.com/2017/5/16/15622366/valve-gabe-newell-sales-origin-destructive where they point out the scummy things Valve has done
That article thinks people aren't smart enough to realize that Valve is a corporation like other ones, but it's one that strives for the "win-win" scenarios, where other corporations strive for the "win-lose" (AKA profit above all).
People don't mind if a corporation makes money, as long as they do it ethically (products that are priced fairly, not harmful to their customers, works well, and last a long time), and also takes care of their customers, treating them with respect.
But that article doesn't seem to realize that, it tends to write that all off as just some kind of psyop by Valve on their customer base to 'pull the wool over their eyes' while they fuck them over.
having a company that is not actively trying to exploit us is surprisingly refreshing.
This article didn't research the VR bits...Gabe has said multiple times, even recently, that they are working steadily on VR and it's hardware. Their next headset even has a codename, Deckard.
Also, I don't think most people realize Valve doesn't have much of an internal structure. It more resembles a community of people working together because they want to.
Oh god, I just realized... Imagine if they brought Portal back, but in VR like they did Half-Life.
We'd get so many videos of people falling over in their living room
working steadily on VR and it's hardware.
If they fix the bullshit joystick switch on the goddamn index controllers I will throat every valve employee that made it happen.
Open up for gaben
Funded by the cash cow steam store, they just kinda do what they will in the mean time.
Last year, I pointed out how many big publishers came crawlin' back to Steam after trying their own things: EA, Activision, Microsoft. This year, for the first time ever, two Blizzard games released on Steam: Overwatch and Diablo 4.
Why is it so hard for companies to build a game launcher that doesn't suck? Is it just a lowest bidder situation?
Steam sucked, really bad. For 8 years, maybe? Maybe more? It takes time to build something, but consumers demand everything immediately.
I mean steam sucked for 8 years like 20 years ago. Technology wasn’t the same as it is. They revolutionized the pc gaming scene and I’d argue that even that Steam version was better than the current EGS version. Was it uglier? Yea maybe but it did the job. You could install, manage and launch your games, cloud saves and it wasn’t bloat or spyware. The Steam just kept getting better even if with a messy ui in some places. They do a ton of shit that generates them no direct profit but that makes using Steam a no brainer. And gamers respect and value that even if not all of them.
Heck I’m sure that they very quickly came up with a functional shopping cart at the very least.
I mean steam sucked for 8 years like 20 years ago. Technology wasn’t the same as it is. They revolutionized the pc gaming scene and I’d argue that even that Steam version was better than the current EGS version. Was it uglier? Yea maybe but it did the job. You could install, manage and launch your games, cloud saves and it wasn’t bloat or spyware. The Steam just kept getting better even if with a messy ui in some places. They do a ton of shit that generates them no direct profit but that makes using Steam a no brainer. And gamers respect and value that even if not all of them.
Heck I’m sure that they very quickly came up with a functional shopping cart at the very least.
I think it's just priorities, those other companies weren't interested in making a launcher, they were interested in tying their customers into their eco system.
Steam started out like that in appearance at least, nobody really wanted it and it was kind of forced on you if you wanted to play HL2 but since Valve seemed to understand the value in a platform like steam and actually work at making it good it became pretty good.
At this point it's actually kind of hard to fully appreciate how much work has gone into steam. Not just the basic stuff like chat and forums and a store with a functioning search, or the banal stuff like inventories and trading cards and points I still don't understand, but also the stuff most people don't see like all the stuff for developers launching a game on steam and managing sales and keys and betas. Not to mention all the experiments they've done along the way to try and figure out what the best way forward is.
Steam is kind of a huge undertaking and unless a company is really invested in competing with it they're simply not going to be able to.
they were interested in tying their customers into their eco system.
Data, they were also interested in that sweet, sweet, data harvesting. Previously only Valve was grabbing all that via Steam.
If your goal was only to make a good launcher, it would be easy. If your goal is a lot of DRM shenanigans as if we were still in 1998, it’s really hard.
IMO my favorite launcher to use out of all is probably Battle.net, even over Steam. This is probably mostly because Steam is terrible unresponsive and its startup is still kinda ass (I just tested the start and noticed its 3 fucking loading screens: Verifying installtion, Logging in and finally loading the page. All as separate windows).
Wow. Ive never heard someone say something positive about battle net
well, I don't think battle.net is the worst launcher
Yeah I agree. I don't play Blizzard Activision games for other reasons, but the battle.net launcher was by far the best.
I don't get why, when PC gamers spend thousands to get a quick, smooth machine, that they put up with the shitfest that is Valve. I mean, it's 2023 why is the UI still a website? Why is it that I can't stop the news from popping up? And it's so damn unresponsive and laggy.
It's rare that I wholeheartedly back a billion dollar company, but I do with Valve. Until Gabe is no longer CEO and their business model changes to something more nefarious, I will stick with them for years to come. No battle.net, No epic, just Steam.
I like what Valve does and I sound like a fanboy sometimes because they just keep doing great stuff… But I don’t fucking trust them long term. I hope they prove me wrong, of course! I also don’t really trust anybody else.
Maybe there's a disproportionately high amount of linux users on lemmy, cause I keep seeing it come up in the comments. But I would use Epic if they had linux support. Heck some games like satisfactory I have access to on both cause I paid for it twice lol
https://github.com/Heroic-Games-Launcher/HeroicGamesLauncher
Works like a charm.
For reference I do have it installed.. i think.. The one that runs overwatch/blizzard games, haven't played or launched it in about a year though. As apart from fortnite, which I just dont play because of lockout, satisfactory is the only one I have on there i care about. Plus I can share the epic login with my less fortunate windows friends... dont tell anyone I said that though haha
can confirm!
Call me whatever, but Valve does so much for Linux gaming that when I do buy games I make sure to get them through Steam. Between Proton and the Steam Deck it seems like Valve is doing a lot of the heavy lifting. Linux gaming is in a great place right now and Valve deserves a lot of credit.
They also have Steam Input which is incredible. The customization and control you have over your experience is insane.
Epic Games on the other hand can't even be bothered to support Linux properly. Valve earns their cut.
🤡
They won me over permanently when they instituted a refund policy.
It took the australian government to do it, but at least they did it in the best possible way after being forced to, instead of throwing a tantrum and having people need to talk to a support person.
Steam did have refund policy and I have returned games in the past, but it was a review process.
Makes sense Santa would holiday somewhere sunny.
Pretty sure Gabe lives in New Zealand now. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, he just got stuck there during COVID and then never left once restrictions were eased.
By the way, that sun is the ozone hole.
Unless I’m remembering incorrectly, he just got stuck there during COVID and then never left once restrictions were eased.
Yeah, there was some fuss recently about him getting ordered to attend as a witness at some trial in the US instead of video conferencing as is the norm since covid.
What I'm wondering: is this going to happen to the many streaming services as well? They're many and expensive. Are they going to consolidate in a few or are they going to lower their prices so that they don't continue to lose users?
No. They're repeating cable history. The great bundling has already begun. Hulu and Disney are being rolled together. You're going to have fewer options moving forward. You'll have to buy the netflix-hulu-disney-peacock-hbo-starz bundle or the other one with all the rest. Then they can keep cranking up the price because it's all or nothing. Prices will go up until too many people choose the "nothing" option, then they'll start doing a "build your own package" to let you drop half and save 10% just because you want one of the services.
Yo ho yo ho a repeat of history for me.
I see it’s not your first rodeo…
It will just keep getting worse until some new "disruptor" enters the marketplace. That one will be great for a while, then collapse into a new archipelago of shitty cash grabs.
I'm just wondering what the next big thing will be... Maybe some kind of local macro-kiosks that have mechanical DRM units that store all the data so they don't have to negotiate with the non-open ISPs. You could probably even include impulse sales of physical merchandise and consumables while people browse for the media they want.
The unpopular ones like Paramount+ and Peacock will probably lower their prices, rely on ads, realize they can't keep the lights on with their lower prices, and probably sell to Amazon or Disney someday. The larger ones will consolidate the popular content and continue raising their prices and inserting more ads. The previous prices were just a loss-leader to get people to sign up.
or are they going to lower their prices so that they don't continue to lose users?
We all know this isn't happening
HBO and Disney are already delisting some shows and selling the rights for the more successful ones to buy and add it to their catalog.
are they going to lower their prices so that they don’t continue to lose users?
If they lose users, they'll increase the prices for everyone else. Then they'll lose even more and increase prices even more.
Count this comment as irrelevant if you will, but I think one of the biggest missed opportunities of EGS is mod support. They have this world-class game engine, and they do so little with it. Maybe it is because of Unreal Tournament 4 failing to take off. Maybe they think just hamfisting a bunch of this modding stuff into Fortnite is all they need, but still I feel like the EGS version of the steam workshop is an open goal. Hell, with the money they're saving from pawning off Bandcamp you can even buy off mod.io to get support for virtually no work at all. Like why hasn't this happened yet?
do not give them good ideas. I need steam to have all games since it is the only one with any good linux support. it does not matter if EGS have free games if i can not play them.
True, UT4 was supposed to all about user-modding.
We did it boiz.
Pat yourselves on the back if you never used an alternative.
This is a weird mentality. Competition in the space is good, even if the current "default" thing is really good.
The key is to use an alternative that's actually good, and most of these companies were never going to make an alternative that was good, just one that was exploitative.
Most of my purchases the last few years have been gog. The only game service where you actually own the game afterwards.
Competition is good....when the competition is actually competitive.
But what has happened is games on are steam .... which installs the launcher + game.
So it's not a win at all. It's actually a loss for us. If steam was to force "yeah you can publish the game on steam, but you cannot use your launcher"
The competition kind of shot itself in the foot
Competition for the sake of competition isn't intrinsically a good thing.
Seems to me, most of the people complaining about Steam are greedy devs who want to make more money off of their products.
For me, as a user, that's not my concern. For me, as a user, it's more important that I can play games without having to download different launchers just to make someone else richer.
GOG is probably the only legitimate competitor with Steam. They provide value to customers instead of just themselves or greedy devs.
Ya because so far it doesn't seem to impact the consumer so it works for me lol. Valve has always had great sales too. If they jacked up prices YoY, and did evil things, then I'd welcome competition. But all I see at this point is lousy extra software to install a single game or two. Annoying. Fragmented. Just just media streaming.
GOG > itch.io > Steam > whale poo > everything else
For Linux, it's Steam and then anything that works with Bottles, Lutris or Heroic.
Let's start a pool to predict how many years/months until Steam enshitifies. It WILL happen. It's just a matter of when.
Of course, but I'm not expecting that to happen until Gabe dies or retires. Until then I think Steam will be number 1.
Hopefully not soon, but probably once Gabe is gone if i had to guess.
If steam goes public, might as well start packing the bug out bag because shit is going to go south real quick.
It WILL happen. It’s just a matter of when.
Probably but that doesn't mean that I have to buy games on inferior platform now.
Blizzard had a legit decent platform for a while there. Real fall from grace.
Now Epic games are next, hopefully.
I don't mind things being slightly spread out, even. What is like most though is if there were regulations that you cannot have exclusivity deals. Beyond a publisher not bothering to publish on store XYZ, there should never be a way a store is inherently excluded.
As in, fuck Epic.
I hope epic game store burns in hell, personally.
The power of a monopoly
HAHA
I'd also be winning if I could force all my competitors to match my prices despite my fees being higher than theirs.
What's forcing a publisher to sell for the same price on Epic or GOG than on Steam? They could always just not sell there (on Steam), or do a different edition of the game for each platform so they're independent tax units, or immediately run a coupon system for the other platform.
Mind you, that's the choice of the publisher. Not the platform. Someone else already corrected me that epic is doing something like this but that's based on the store not the publisher.
Plus, there's something to be said about a central store. For all we decry monopolies, most people have serious issues in their lives. Just got one random example, the recent free days I've heard consistent screaming and banging from my neighbor's flat. Turns out her eldest daughter is there, and her ex is using the children's against her, which in turn has caused the one that was already mentally unwell to become violent and aggressive without provocation being caught in the middle of all of that (and he keeps the children support money which draws out the legal process as she cannot hire a good lawyer).
Anyhow, point being: in such a situation, having one less tiny worry on your mind (like which of 1500 stores is safe or not) is quite good. The less extra shit to think about, the better. Android has other stores too but there's real value as a user not having to hunt down which place to get which app from. Mich like for physical goods Amazon got so big because having it all in one central place and for delivery is, well, quite convenient. Got real issues to worry about, no time to worry about small shit.
It of course feeds into a terminal monopoly, sure. But I cannot fault users who don't have the brain space for such issues for not investing into their choices of an immediate solution is easily available: just buying on steam.
(Plus, real value in something like Steam Link, modding, discussions, guides and reviews)
What’s forcing a publisher to sell for the same price on Epic or GOG than on Steam?
Isn't.... This what a monopoly is?
Why are we celebrating that?
Remind me, which store is paying publishers for exclusivity?
Valve has objectively done far more good in the gaming space than any other company so I would say yes, their achievements are worth celebrating even if it is monopolistic. They've proven to be trustworthy for the time being, unlike other companies.
It's not a monopoly in the way that valve has does bad things to keep it that way, just that every other try has so far failed. Nothing has been close to as good as steam, and probably never will. GOG is good but they're not directly competing in the same way.
Yup, gog and steam are my 2 preferred platforms. Same_but_different.gif
