This is literally me I do this

The criticism of social democracy ultimately boils down to "you're not doing a juche-style degrowth to decouple from imperial satraps". Which is fine and perfectly arguable on its face. But it does lead you to breeze over the policies social democrats are most commonly championing - public sector professional services free at the point of consumption - that would, in fact, get you some of that juche-style degrowth you said you wanted.

Another big gripe is that social-democracy is just capitalism, and we are opposed to capitalism.

but that criticism doesn't really hold up when you ARE the global south and it's your resources getting plundered by imperialists

For the same reason, it doesn't work to materially improve conditions for the 3rd world. The only solution is revolutionary socialism.

To be honest, I was shocked when he said that. Lula, and the Worker's Party as a whole, usually shy away from name-dropping Communism, let alone openly praising it.

Lula is usually worried with having support from the right-leaning Congress, and honestly, he needs that support to be allowed to do anything as president, and openly saying what he said is sure to get him a lot of criticism.

Still, it was a nice surprise to hear that.

Under no circumstances would any of our global north socdems say something overtly praising putting communists in positions of power.

I think they do pop off, once or twice, before they get piled on by liberals and social fascists. Sanders was openly complimentary of Chavez's Venezuela, Ortega's Nicaragua, and Castro's Cuba a decade ago. Rashida Tlaib has been a vocal advocate for Palestinian resistance in Gaza as recently as a few weeks ago. You can find comparable statements from AOC, Ilhan Omar, and Cori Bush, particularly early on in their first campaigns and terms in office.

With perhaps the sole exception of Jeremy Corbyn who was quite obviously only a socdem of necessity, it's clearly not his actual ideology.

Corbyn is a great case study in how the national far-right media treats anyone even tacitly supportive of left wing governments and organizations. The British Press has made it some kind of contest to see how many times they can demand everyone in the Labour Party condemn Hamas, as a result of his Palestinian advocacy. Every third question in any given interview boils down to "Do you condemn?"

So there's a certain amount of attrition that occurs, as even the tangentially left-wing Congresscritters and Parliamentarians avoid these issues entirely because of the way the press hounds them in the most annoying way possible. Because national right-wing media narratives whip up constituencies into a confused and angry lather, and because left-wing media in this country is heavily curtailed and censored, it is difficult to have a coherent conversation about foreign policy that doesn't end with a bunch of liberals accusing a sitting Congresswoman of being the unibomber.

Counterpoint

You are being way too kind to European succdems. These slimy bastards doesn't want leverage over capitalists, they want to serve the capitalists.

Which Latin American socdem besides Morales said something like that?

Exactly like look at how Latam social democracies are treated vs the Nordics. Its obvious theres a material difference.

You're seeing the opinions of the western left, and in our countries our movements have only just been rebounding after decades of very harsh repression and propaganda, so it'll take more time, struggle, and political development for people to see the difference between social democracy and revolutionary society. It is unfortunate, but for now, many will be captivated by the former.

demsoc governments of the world like the one in my country

Sorry but which country? I know of plenty of countries with self proclaimed social democratic governments but not really any "democratic socialist" governments

Well I'm making you the epistemological black hole through which I perceive your country, congratulations.

I'm from Nicaragua (hey neighbor!) and yes, I hate how much the online left loves and defends the "socialist" governments that govern our countries. I try to think it comes from a lack of knowledge, but a lot of the time it's them calling you a "useful idiot" just for daring to ask for a socialist party that doesn't criminalize abortion (after it had been legal for almost a hundred years!) just to ingratiate themselves with the Catholic church. The FSLN has made pacts with far-right parties, made concessions to Canadian companies so they can mine gold (and destroy our forests in the process), has had a great relationship with the old and new bourgeoisie, has implemented every IMF recommendation to continue the neoliberal policies of their predecessors, but Ortega makes his yearly speech calling the US an imperialist shithole, and that's enough for them to support him.

Thats good info to have, and i already thought putting Lula and Evo in the same meme was silly.

But, big question for me, has he stopped or curbed the burning of the Amazon?

And DemSocs are revisionists, so congrats.

Its mostly people fighting with one guy who just got temp banned lol but yeah, whoops.

Another day on SeptagonKoala.info

I think we have an emotte just for that

Not enough posting power to reply to my arguments, sadly.