1y ago

Beeper reverse-engineered iMessage to bring blue bubble texts to Android users

techcrunch.com Beeper reverse-engineered iMessage to bring blue bubble texts to Android users | TechCrunch

The push to bring iMessage to Android users today adds a new contender. A startup called Beeper, which had been working on a multi-platform messaging

Beeper reverse-engineered iMessage to bring blue bubble texts to Android users::The push to bring iMessage to Android users today adds a new contender. A startup called Beeper, which had been working on a multi-platform messaging

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i had no idea that having green chat bubbles upset people so much.
- The issue isn't so much the message color. It's the ability to send videos that aren't potato quality and other media.
  
  Which should go away anyway once Apple bakes in RCS support
  
  Which they will surely do with no caveats whatsoever.
  
  They’re doing the GSMA standard and nothing else. I think they refuse to play ball with any standard Google controls either directly or indirectly.
  
  I hate apple as much as the next guy, but I respect them for that
  
  It’s just smart business. Why give up any level of control of anything to a direct competitor when you don’t have to?
  
  Especially Google, and especially the crappy implementation of RCS.
  I see posts every day of people having issues. Messages not sent, not received, etc.
  
  They're not doing encryption, because Google is using their own.
  RCS is too little, too late. It sucks. I refuse to ever use it.
  
  oh, can't android users receive high-quality videos and photos? after 16 years of smartphones, you'd think they'd have that figured out...
  
  Yeah the whole reason Apple won't allow it is because they expect you to conclude exactly this.
  
  👆 your average apple user, oblivious to the world around them
  
  It's not the android side that's failing, it's Apples refusal to implement anything other than SMS for cross ecosystem compatibility.
  
  It's also why third party messaging apps like Whatsapp are thriving, much to the consternation of every person on the network. I used to be able to pick up the phone and call or message anyone. Now I need to check compatibility first. Wtf apple.
  
  @Mountaineer @gregorum Apple is going to implement RCS, the EU put pressure on them.
  However I am surprised that Beeper was able to do this in software. With everyone else using an Apple device as a proxy, I figured the protocol required a magic handshake from the TPM chip in an Apple device. That would be easy to do.
  
  There's some gotchas in Apples statement:
  They have promised to implement "RCS Universal Profile"
  This means the bare minimum, not the advanced features implemented by Google and Samsung etc.
  An example of a missing feature from Universal Profile is end to end encryption.
  They also said: "This will work alongside iMessage, which will continue to be the best and most secure messaging experience for Apple users."
  The implication of this is that it won't be in the iMessage app, it will be in a separate but official app, siloing your Android friends from your iPhone friends.
  When this comes out, every European is going to shrug and keep using Whatsapp.
  
  @Mountaineer Encryption needs to be added to the standard, and then Apple will be expected to implement it. Hopefully the EU knocks some heads together and makes this happen.
  WhatsApp is owned by Facebook and has ads, which is two good reasons not to use it. Europeans are just as "stuck with a bad standard" as Americans are here.
  I use RCS quite a bit and like it. Although nothing on a phone should be regarded as truly secure.
  
  The implication of this is that it won't be in the iMessage app, it will be in a separate but official app, siloing your Android friends from your iPhone friends.
  Lol wut
  SMS and iMessage both work via the same Messages app. All they’ll do is add RCS functionality to the Messages app, and iPhone users will continue using the same app they’ve always used.
  
  what? that's not the implication at all. it'll work just like SMS does now. same app, just RCS instead of SMS
  
  it’ll work just like SMS does now
  I agree with this part of your statement 100%.
  It will work POORLY.
  Whether it's in the same app or simply a different colour like SMS is currently, it'll be a half assed implementation, designed to segregate your iphone and android friends.
  Got an existing iphone group chat? Bet you can't add an RCS participant to it.
  Create a new RCS group chat so you can include everyone? Bet it's missing features that you'd get in imessage.
  Receive a high resolution video from a friend via imessage? Forward that to another friend via RCS and they'll receive 5 blurry pixels.
  And throughout all of this, apple will blame the RCS protocol and say "We're actively working with GSMA to improve RCS".
  No one trusts apple for the very simple reason that they have a habit of saying the quiet part out loud: Tim Cook Says 'Buy Your Mom An iPhone'
  
  unfortunately you're right. it'll be marginally better, sure, but I have zero doubt the "green bubble" is just going to be a different color. better than nothing I guess
  
  RCS is too liitle, too late. It sucks. People have issues with it today... It's less reliable than SMS, and it's E2EE is problematic.
  Fortunately much of the world has moved away from SMS already, so those folks aren't coming back. I try real hard to get people away from it.
  
  @BearOfaTime I have RCS and use it. It works fine. I have not noticed significant reliability problems, using Google's servers. If there are problems it's likely the carrier's garbage implementation.
  There is no standard here in the USA except SMS.
  
  It works fine, for you. When it works is irrelevant. When it doesn't is what matters.
  Go to reddit look for RCS problem posts. It's terrible.
  
  Even worse, I can send high quality images and video from android to iPhone if they're both on Verizon. When the iPhone sends it back, it's trashed.
  That said, SMS/MMS suck. SMS has a known, published loss of messages at about 12%. What the hell?
  
  iOS can't send hi quality videos or images over SMS. It's a choice made by Apple.
  I can send large videos (more than 50mb, for sure) over SMS from my Android phone on Verizon to a Verizon iPhone. They receive it in same quality. When they send it back, the iPhone butchers it.
  Verizon, unlike other carriers, doesn't seem to have an MMS size limit.
  
  You need to think of iMessage as Google messages, Whatsapp, telegram, signal, etc. Except this is only installed on iPhones and they want everyone to know it. It's arrogant and stupid. The app could just be released for Android and it would be no different than the others I mentioned.
  It's gatekeeping.
  
  That is not the issue. At all. Lol
  
  Android to Android, sure.
  But Apple and Google refuse to play nicely with each other, so Android to Iphone or Iphone to Android both suck.
  It's not a lack of capability, it's the refusal to implement it to try and force users to pick a side.
  
  Google chat, or whatever they call it now, fixed that.
  
  If you're talking about RCS, androids newer native messaging system, no apple has not implemented that yet.
  There has always been dozens of messaging apps users can use, including Google Chat, but they are all seprate apps that both you and the recipient have to choose to install and use. That's the main problem.
  The goal is to have the native messaging apps on both platforms be able to speak to each other with the same quality right out of the box, just as they can within the same platform right now (apple to apple, and android to android).
  
  you can when it's android to android. as soon as an iphone is in play, the iphone immediately decreases the quality, even though the MMS standard allows for attachments up to 100MB in size
  
  Android uses RCS now, a higher quality and more feature rich standard than SMS. However... Apple hasn't added it to iOS, so it doesn't work to send to iPhones and they receive bog-standard SMS from Android devices.
  
  deleted
  
  You're joking, right?
  
  i'm laughing, if that's what you mean.
  
  iOS can't send hi quality videos or images over SMS. It's a choice made by Apple.
  I can send large videos (more than 50mb, for sure) over SMS from my Android phone on Verizon to a Verizon iPhone. They receive it in same quality. When they send it back, the iPhone butchers it.
  Verizon, unlike other carriers, doesn't seem to have an MMS size limit.
- I've seen a lot of people complain online about getting dropped by a tinder date/etc because they swapped numbers and the other person realized they didn't have an iPhone from the green text. Probably best not to date someone who would drop you over that, but there's a weird elitism over blue/green texts.
  
  Attempting to get a date in the current US scene was hard enough without this petty bullshit. While it was certainly disheartening to see another one slip away, knowing I was dodging a bullet was worth the time. I did enjoy (only once) getting "ugh green bubbles? Srs?" And sliding back "yeah sorry I have a Fold#, iPhones r for brokies" and blocking the contact
  (People are free to own iPhone and you're free to make your own descicions or debate the merits of android/iphone, I am more just intolerant of the fan elitism - not iPhone owners in general, hope you have a nice day)
  
  I've never heard of that, that's kinda hilarious and really helps them dodge a bullet.
  Apple has spent a significant amount of effort over creating a sense of elitism for using its products but that's largely unique to the western world. Most of the world uses android devices by far.
  
  Western World
  Did you mean mostly just the US?
  Android has almost 83% market share in the EU.
  An interesting fact while researching is that Iphone has over a 99% market share in North Korea. I assumed that the data might be thrown off by one individual maybe owning like ten thousand Iphones... but surprisingly NK is more connected then I thought with like 7M registered cellular devices
  
  Nah bro, if they bought an iPhone that means I can't trust them with money. Screw that noise
  
  As much as I dislike apple, I don't really hold it against people if they choose to use iPhones. Iphones are overpriced, but they're decent phones and I can't really blame someone for not wanting to learn a different mobile OS or lose out on all the apps they've paid for. Also a lot of android OEMs make terrible design decisions with their software modifications/bloatware, and it can be really hard for someone non-tech savvy to know how to buy a good android phone. Iphones are comparably simple to shop for, you only have a few options and they're all going to be decent (if not necessarily a good value).
  Iphone elitism really bothers me though, it feels like it's taking a lack of knowledge/experience and turning it into something to feel smug about.
  
  Exactly.
  I use an iPhone for work, because they pay for it, it does the essentials well, and since they manage the device, I get no benefit from Android's openness.
  My personal phone will always be Android, because I like to use a pocket computer the way I want to use it, not how the vendor thinks I should use it.
  
  As someone who started with Android, went to iOS, back to Android, and stayed with iOS I feel like you're not trying to understand why some people choose an iPhone. I personally chose it because of the incredible battery life.
  Skip the rest of this if you don't want to hear a rambling mess of my phone history. There is a bit at the end regarding prices and why I own what I own now.
  I had an HTC Desire, Samsung Galaxy S2, HTC One M7, Sony Xperia Z1, iPhone 7, Nexus 6P, iPhone X, iPhone 12 Pro, iPhone 15.
  I've rooted a bunch of the early Android phones, loved having removable batteries and having expandable storage. As the platform evolved and started following Apple's lead on design decisions (no removable batteries, no expandable storage, etc.) I was wondering why I was still with Android. After having a the Xperia I noticed that the battery didn't last as long as it used to and if I remember right (possibly not, a bit tipsy) the Xperia was advertised as having a very long battery but it didn't last very long past a year or so (was getting less than a full day and having to charge when I was driving home). I also had how slow Sony was to get OS upgrades it I decided to try a new phone. At the time I cared more about the battery and the iPhone 7 was my next try. It was amazing, I didn't actually enable iMessage because I hated the bubble bs that I heard about. Eventually the 6p was announced and I missed the freedom of android and decided to give it a try. This was the generation where Android started cracking down on rooting and the battery life was awful. I eventually went full in on iOS after that and here we are. I miss what Android was, I do sometimes miss the tinkering but I also don't hate how things normally just work.
  Now in regards to cost, the name brands for Android phones are around the same price. They usually promise 2-3 years of updates while currently Apple had a history of supporting phones for 4-5 years.
  I understand you can get lower range phones for cheaper but I guess I'm not into the phone scene like I used to because I guess I assume the lower range phones aren't getting the updates that the flagships are and I don't want to have to either compromise security or shell out more money to get another phone. So for me, I'm typically buying around a $1000 phone but after 3 years I can trade in my phone for a decent amount of money off the new one, or sell it for even more and pay a mid range Android prices for a new iPhone. Or if I'm not feeling the upgrades are worth it I'll just stick with my phone for the 5 years+ (only went to iPhone 15 to get USB-C and remove lightning from my place).
  
  Battery life hasn't been an issue on Android for like 5 years. Phone I'm using at the moment is a low-end Samsung, I have hundreds of apps, run a VPN and Tailscale, lots of automation, two sync apps, and a bunch of other stuff.
  With normal use it lasts most of a day. When I say normal, I mean my normal, which is to hammer on the poor thing, the screen is rarely off.
  For the average user this thing would last 2 days (I tested it when I got it, just put a few typical apps on).
  Though you know your way around phones, and have developed your reasons for choosing the things you do, like long battery life.
  You're not the user who chooses iPhone because they don't know anything and hear iPhone is better, Android is green low-rent bubbles.
- In the US, every millenial is a communist until a green bubble shows up in the group chat... then the poverty jokes commence
  
  Millennials are pushing 40
  
  Oof, that hurts.
  
  gen z*
  
  Dumb kids are always dumb. And cruel.
- I think they're hated because they're synonymous with broken group chats and low res photos. Hopefully EU forcing rss adoption fixes these instead of having to download an app to 'fit in'.
  
  why should the EU have anything to do with who "fits in"? maybe i misunderstood what you're saying here...
  
  EU implements legislation forcing Android + Apple to use standards that actually work properly with each other. (they usually spearhead this type of change)
  People using android no longer break group chats or have terrible sent image/video quality when messaging Iphone users.
  With this ammunition gone, teens stop using it to attack each other for their familys (lack of) income. Ie those kids 'fit in' better.
  
  Oh, OK. I did misunderstand what was being said. Thank you for clarifying.
  
  I'd say it's people using Apple that break group chats, since Apple doesn't utilize SMS/MMS correctly.
  Not Android's fault that Apple butchers MMS quality.
  Though carriers have some culpability here, even if a carrier allowed higher quality MMS (Verizon), iPhone still wouldn't use that capability, while Android can if configured to do so.
  
  Thats a fair argument; though in this context it's more about how the teens causing social issues perceive it.
  It's not the Iphone users getting picked on in schools.
- People are dumb af
- Doesn't bother me at all.
- It’s all the other features in iMessage that android users “ruin” in group chats. Things like read receipts, typing indicators, reactions, animated/spoiler text messages, sending media in full quality, etc… A single android user is enough to downgrade an entire group chat, so apple users tend to be a little bit resentful.
  It’d be a little bit like if one person on a Discord server disabled all the fun parts of Discord, and it killed the functionality for everyone on that server. Now nobody in the server can add fun little reactions to messages, or start threads, or send embedded gifs. All because that one person decided they didn’t like it.
  
  All because that one person decided they didn’t like it.
  More like "all because Discord decided to remove those things from anyone not using Windows"
  Nothing in this scenario is in the users hands, it's all Apple, what any given user likes or want makes no difference.
  
  This shit seems like a perfect target for an antitrust suit, no?
  
  Apple, Google, and Microsoft commit antitrust violations too fast and numerous for the legal systems to keep up.
  That and they spy on consumers for the US government so that gives them free passes at a lot of things.

134 comments