Democrats worry their most loyal voters won’t turn out for Biden in 2024

Maybe... Maaaaaayyyyyyybeeeee the Democrats need to nominate someone who is actually worth getting excited about instead of just being not-Trump.

Because if voters are excited, they may start voting in primaries...
Every since Obama beat Clinton 15 years ago, party leaders seem more motivated to make sure their pick wins the primary than a Democrat winning the general.
"Moderates" seem ineffictive because they're not trying to just win, they're trying to win by as little as possible. Like a corrupt pro athlete who's not throwing the game, but trying to win by less than the spread.
They know the reason most people vote for moderates like Biden, is if they don't, someone like trump would win. It's just the party leaders would rather trade back and forth than let Dems like FDR win every election for decades.
- Ever since Obama beat Clinton 15 years ago
  Jesus I thought you were exaggerating and then I did the math
- That's a great way to put it. Both parties are funded by dark money interests, one drives us to the right and the other keeps us in place. This is described as the ratchet effect
Anyone "worth getting excited about" is going to challenge the status quo too much - even nominally - for the DNC to be okay with it. They are conservative in the descriptive sense. "No-one's standard of living will fundamentally change."
- I get that we have many problems that aren't really being actively solved, but personally I've been pretty happy with this return-to-status-quo term as compared to the previous non-status-quo term... and right now the narcissistic traitor is leading the nomination polls.
- Also for Democrat voters. I don't want a Bernie/Williamson/RFK candidate. I want the candidate I voted in as President in 2020
Sorry, the do-something machine is broke. Best we can do is partially fossilized C-Suite moderates.
Well, what if we put RFK Jr beside them, does that make them seem any better?
Well, now you're just being unreasonable.
Not being trump is enough for me. Sure, I’d love someone better. But I’d vote for a wooden brick if it meant america wouldn’t turn into a dictatorship.
Or maybe you need to understand that the down ticket races are more important than the presidency?
Change in the US starts at the bottom. Not the top.
Fuck the presidency. Just vote for the candidate that isn't going to burn the country down.
You want real change? Real progressivism? Vote progressives into local offices. Your young, progressive education board member today is your congressional rep tomorrow. Your congressional rep today is your presidential hopeful tomorrow.
Let the status quo dems toss whatever geriatric they want at the presidency and vote them in so we don't get another trump, or worse, a president desantis or something.
Presidents don't often push new laws anyway. You want to change the country? Help take the House and the Senate. As long as the president is the same party they're not going to veto progressive legislation.
- I was about to write something like your comment.
  You want real change? Real progressivism? Vote progressives into local offices
  Show up to every local election. Pay attention at the local level. Use your passion against the two party system to get third-party candidates elected to your state house.
This shit right here. Both times I was exited for a candidate he got thrown out because the party leaders didn't like him, first with Hillary, and then with Biden. I'm just going to continue to vote for not-trump because I know how bad it will be but I don't want any centrist democrat almost as much as I dont want trump.
Maybe… Maaaaaayyyyyyybeeeee the left voters need to actually show up to vote.
Now everyone is going to say they voted in a presidential election, possibly even a primary which makes them a rarity! Those aren't what we're talking about. The right has made it a point to vote on everything even as small as schoolboards so the only people voting in the tiny little races are the right wing rage crowd or the centrists who are being pulled to the right. Yes, the presidential vote matters, but frankly those lower down votes mean a lot more and if you watch how the Republican primaries are going, shows exactly how much power that batch that will show up has over a party.
- This is some real "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" energy. If "just vote" actually worked, they'd change the system just enough so it doesn't. Assembling establishment voltron in 2020 during the primaries is just a tiny taste of the lengths that democrats will go to in order to prevent a progressive candidate from winning.
I'm convinced he was picked because "it was his time"
- I don’t think that was the main reason.
  IMO, Biden was nominated because he was a fairly uncontroversial (by mainstream sensibilities anyway) white male candidate who also isn’t that attached to many positions that would threaten the powers that be.
  Biden is a weather vane that swings in accordance to the winds. Which is all that was needed to beat a historically unpopular candidate like Trump. Thankfully, Trump is such a bad option that even Biden can be a palatable candidate.
  Why this fossil didn’t bend the knee and allow another younger, more exciting candidate step up for 2024 is beyond me though. But I guess seeing the average age and mental capability of Congress, it shouldn’t be surprising. IMO, everyone over the age of 65 should be ineligible for elected office. They are at retirement age, and have no real, justifiable stake in the future. They should retire with the knowledge they won life and can live out the rest of their days in comfort and leave running the country to people who have skin in the game and the energy/mental faculties to actually play it.
- He won because they weren't going to allow Bernie Sanders to win
- Well...maybe it will be his time and we will get Harris. We can dream I guess.
Or maybe grow up and realize that political offices and the people that fill them shouldn't be "exciting". Maybe the problem is that we all want someone exciting... With no regard for competence.
"I'd have a beer with him." Who gives a fuck???
- Problem is that you need to convince tens of millions of people to grow up. I think this chap here is merely suggesting we give the idiots what they want.
Hillary was also not-Trump. That worked out well.
It will only last a few more years, but in the near-ish future the problem will take care of itself. (They're both very old)
- Henry Kissinger is still alive.
- Spoiler alert: The problem doesn't end with some old people. Greed is eternal and has to be actively fought the entire time.
I'd rather we nominate someone who is electable, i.e., palatable to centrists, even if they're not as exciting as someone who would move the Overton window leftwards.
- What if is instead of focusing on a vanishingly small number of centrist swing voters, you focused on the 35% of non-voters by improving their material conditions?

Biden may not be exciting, but he's had a surprising amount of policy victories given the deadlock in congress. And he hasn't tried to burn our democracy to the ground to satisfy his own ego, so that's always a plus.

That’s because democracy was burnt to the ground awhile ago and all that’s left are corporate shills.
- When do you suggest that this happened and what was the cause?

From a non-US standpoint this is rather easy:

You have 2 geriatric options. Option 1 would lead to a dictatorship. Option 2 would lead to the - non-ideal - status quo.

How the fuck do you even have to think about which option would be better???

The Dems have ran non ideal status quo candidates for so long it becomes fatiguing so people stay home or write in Snoop Dogg.
- While I totally understand the frustration - apathy cannot be a solution in this scenario!
  You'd rather sit at home and watch your democracy go up in flames than just make an "x" on a piece of paper or a screen? Seriously, come on man...
- Last non-ideal Dem for President was... Kerry?
non-ideal over violent civil war
this is not a tough decision, my friend
Exactly. I live in America and I can't believe the stupidity of some of these comments like "well because they're running Joe Biden I won't vote waaaah!" Ok, then enjoy your dictatorship? It culturally is the worst thing I hate about being here.
Because the dictatorship is a minor inconvenient side effect of their team winning.
- This is exactly it.
  Also:
  he's not as bad as the Democrats say, they are just mad because their team lost"
  ..followed by endless rationalization and moving goalposts
- The dictatorship is the end goal.
But if you don't consider Trump the absolute threat that he is, you just stay home. When I thought there was no way he'd win (2016) I didn't vote for Hilary because I hate her. I voted for Biden because the threat had become real.
Dems are correctly assessing that there are still people who see Trump as a clown show rather than a future dictator.
Easy is subjective. The choice is obvious but having to vote for someone you know doesn't represent most of us isn't easy. It's a hard thing that we have to do. Nobody is thinking about what option to vote for here. We're grieving the decision that's already been made for us because there's no acceptable alternative. But thanks for your contributions. It's always so very helpful when people that don't even live our lives roll up to state the obvious.
Because the status quo at this point will also kill millions, just slower.
If an actual fascist dictatorship were a real threat the democratic party would be totally impotent against it.
- An actual fascist dictatorship IS the real threat. What do you think trump will do if he wins?
- Yeah this is why I'm glad things aren't looking great for Desantis lately.
I just don't bother voting. We need a large majority of eligible voters, those who actually don't believe in the system, to stop showing up. When the tide goes out, we can all see who's swimming naked.
- This is the dumbest thing I've read in this thread. I can't imagine you're anything but a troll trying to get people not to vote.
I'm not from the US either, but I'm pretty sure there's a third choice - staying home.
- I was mostly referring to the (likely) candidates as options, but yes, sadly you are right. Doesnt help that by design it is more difficult to vote for certain groups than others. Still. If I had to take a day off and risk my job by doing so - It would be worth it to prevent a dictatorship!
- That's a vote for Hitler V2

fuckin find a decent nominee then

In 2020 there were double digits dems in the primary...
In 2024 we're expected to believe the only choice is Biden or a Republican.
If you're pissed "there's no other nominee" be mad at the party leaders who aren't allowing a primary. And realize there's 100s of people qualified to run as a Dem
- Double digit nominees...that all lost to Biden.
  We gonna drag them up again? So they can lose again?
You mean like one that already beat Trump once?
- Maybe one that isn't older than average life expectancy already let alone after another term. Just an idea.
If the DNC didn't say there would be no primary on day 1 then we might have actually been able to see people step forward. Marianne Williamson is at least running on the issues and is physically capable of having a two hour conversation. Biden... not so much
- Marianne Williamson, the pseudoscience and conspiracy nutter that helped convince a bunch of people with HIV that medicine doesn't work and praying and willpower would cure them instead?
- I don't know why they're so content to hitch themselves to terrible candidates. I've never in my life voted Republican, and the last time I was excited about a democratic nominee was Obama (RIP young idealistic me). Hillary had more baggage than a travelling circus, and felt a lot like just dead ass casting a vote for Goldman Sachs to run the oval office; Primary Biden made Jeb Bush seem like a live wire, besides not really having much to get excited about on his platform. Bernie was basically the only exciting thing the democrats have had going in soon to be over a decade now. The part has to do better.
- Williamson is a nutcase, and Kennedy is a racist anti-vaxxer. How about we get a serious candidate or two?
- Capable of a two hour conversation maybe, but a strong candidate? Not even close

While I didn't really want Biden in 2020, after his administration's record so far, I can honestly say I do want more of that. Not to say I wouldn't rather have someone much better and more left, but I'm pretty sure nobody better will be any more successful than Biden has been, given the Republican opposition in Congress.
What I really want is fewer Republicans in Congress, and short of moving to another district, there isn't much more I can do there. My district's congressmen are fantastic.
People are braindead if they don't vote Biden again. Sure we don't want him, but do we want Hitler 2.0 instead? Because Ron Desantis is a preview of that if a Republican wins. Biden will then be gone next time and we'll have a younger candidate. Sadly, voting takes time. Remember that it took decades of this shit for Republicans to steal the Supreme Court.
- I agree with you, but the point is that we could have had a candidate people could get excited about, instead we have a candidate whose biggest selling point (as you yourself say) is "not Hitler 2.0"
I agree with the other user who said this a terrible take.
Biden is who the Democratic party selected overwhelmingly (to my chagrin) and there is nobody who can beat him in a primary (the person who theoretically could already lost before, and immediately endorsed Biden this time around).
It also makes no sense to take out the guy we know will beat Trump.
If Biden is reelected then he will be 86 years old at the end of the second mandate.
86 !
Bill Clinton, Georges W Bush and Barack Obama are still younger than him. Except than Clinton was elected 30 years ago.
Americans are desperate for change, but half of them want to go backward and half want to go forward. Add to that it basically takes a supermajority to pass legislation that makes real changes and well... you're pretty much left with things you can do via the executive branch.
So yes, a big part of the problem is that neither party really has the ability to appeal to the other "side" at all. We need sweeping social change before we get sweeping political change.
Terrible take as this admin has lassoed the country and reigned things in. Sure, let's cut the rope.
I couldn't agree more.
People are way too worried about this.
Republicans got what they wanted when Roe V. Wade was overturned. Now they get to watch purple states become blue for the foreseeable future.
Democrats don't care if they win. They aren't a political party

I always viewed Biden as the lemon I suck on to cleanse my palette between courses, now they want the lemon to be the whole damn meal.

Better than a shit in your mouth? I don't have to be excited to vote for a lemon but I sure as fuck will to avoid a mouth full of shit. Oh and the reality of what a republican pres will do to the environment.
- This is the only sane and rational opinion in the entire thread. Thank fuck for people like you.
Fuck this system, we could have Bernie instead but corporate money don't like that so we got our democracy adultered and only had Biden to choose from last time

You can't run on having people vote for you just to avoid voting in the enemy. You must get people to vote for you because they want you. One day, a broadly populist Reagan-like Republican candidate will re-appear and he will utterly destroy your country.

Lesser evilism does nothing but make it easier for the next populist to take advantage of the dissonance between the American citizen and the American political institutions. If we keep voting for bad candidates they will keep giving us bad candidates.

Then maybe get a better candidate? I'm pretty sure most sane Americans will vote for anyone not Trump. It's not that hard, just use another candidate.....

Dems: best we can do is this incredibly old man, and this roided up nutjob. Good luck everybody!
If they got a better candidate, they would have to represent their constituents. Democrats don't want that. They want to ride high on Republican tax policies.
Unfortunately almost half of Americans are not sane.
- I think you mean almost half of all voting districts.

Loyal democrat, I will happily vote for Joe Biden.

The Democrats lost me when than ran Hillary over Bernie.
We will never get a progressive with the two party system. We are just voting hard R vs centrist R at this point.
- Yup, better give up! /s
  I was disappointed too, but there's only one party fighting for what I value, so they get my vote.
- Bernie voters were statistically unreliable at the polls. He lost that one and isn't running this cycle, so what is the relevance?
- BoTh SiDES!1!1!1!
- K thx. 🤷‍♀️
- I’m honestly surprised that this is such a popular take. You know how your country works right? How the Supreme Court works?
  If nothing else, is your Ideological purity worth 4 years of conservative (read batshit crazy fundies) appointments to the federal bench?
  From where I’m standing, outside your political system, it seems like a colossally stupid argument. Unless of course you are agitating for the fundies.
  Just go vote Democrat. Then lie about it to your friends if you have to, and hope they do the same.
- Hillary beat Bernie by 3 million votes

Are they "loyal" because they have no other choice? There's your problem.

They know what they're doing. Republicans are the threat they use to stay in office despite running the absolute middle of the road. Pelosi, for example, has been in office 36 years (according to Google). Look at the bullshit with Feinstein (my supposed rep). I've despised her for years, ever since her response to my emailing her office to support something or other sent back a form letter telling me I was wrong without even bothering to do the ass-kiss politician thing and pretend my opinion had some merit even if she was voting a different way. We could have had something with Bernie or other progressives if the establishment would just get the fuck out of the way.

one of the biggest issues, in my humble and also arrogant opinion, is that no political party in any English-speaking country, represents any interests of anyone earning under 7 figures. Maybe even 8 figures, and they have 0 interest or motivation in changing that — despite the lip-service both main parties make for it.

Correct, but no one on the right is advocating for the working class while a decent amount of the left are pro union and pro worker.
Just because both candidates are bad choices does not mean they are equally as bad. The DNC & RNC decide who is the candidate, let's be real. Primaries are rigged, so we get "a shit sandwich vs a giant douche" as South Park put it so eloquently.
- not to be too sophist about it - but while I agree party members care — the salient word in my above post is represent.
  it doesn't matter if the captain doesn't want you to get shot if the general is telling the private to shoot you.
It feels like a significant amount of the democratic party really do. There are a few that ruin it but most are behind minimum wage increases, green energy, taxing the rich, better education and health care. They need a majority not a tie
- The few that ruin it dictate everything.
Threat of violence is the only way to get change

You'd better believe I'll turn out. I don't care if Biden is sometimes a disaster, I vote D to protect my LGBT friends. Accelerationism only hurts people

I don’t care if Biden is sometimes a disaster
"Studies show that poor kids are just as capable of succeeding academically as white kids."
- Sure, hey have you seen some of the shit spewing forth from Trumps oral orface?
- A gaffer gaffing vs a sexual predator gleefully admitting on tape he commits sexual assault and steals secret documents
- You aren't shocking anybody by pointing out an 80 year old is a tad bit racist.
  But you are actively being a liar if your point is that Biden's level of racism is anywhere near the Republican party.

I'm 40+, but youngsters are probably thinking, 'Vote for old white guy #1 or old white guy #2, who cares, neither can relate.' I voted for Joe last time only because Bernie wasn't running. I'm thinking Marianne Williamson this time, though. I don't know if Joe will make it, and I definitely don't want Kamala as president. She put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana.

'Vote for old white guy #1 or old white guy #2, who cares, neither can relate.
Anyone who actually thinks this way is so far off base it's unbelievable. Politics isn't a personality contest. It's ruthless, calculated pragmatism.
I'm thinking Marianne Williamson this time, though. I don't know if Joe will make it, and I definitely don't want Kamala as president. She put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana.
This is an incredibly privileged and out of touch opinion. The damage that Republican policies will inflict on this country is egregious and you're going to base your vote on the fact that Kamala put people in jail for weed? This isn't a game. This isn't a happy democracy where we show up and vote for our feelings. This is literally a calculated political exercise. Your attitude is dangerous and by NOT voting for harm-reducing policies you are contributing to a worse America.
- you don't seem to know what harm reduction means. it's not voting for the architect of the crime bill.
Just curious, if Marianne doesn't get the Democratic nomination do you still plan on voting for the Democratic nominee?
Regardless of your feelings about Harris, (I have similar feelings) you must recognize that having her as president would be, by far, the lesser evil when compared to Trump especially if you're concerned about excessive imprisonment / decriminalization of marijuana.
- I'll be voting for Joe if Marianne doesn't get the nomination. Trump is a conman and a criminal in my eyes. Joe is a corporate Democrat and I would much rather have a a social Democrat. I'll take what I can get though.
I agree with you in principle, but please hold your nose and vote for Joe like I will be doing. Splitting the vote is how we'll end up with a second Trump presidency.
- Forcing unliked or unwanted candidates is how the Dems lose elections. Dems absolutely are ass at primary voting.
It's less about the race and age of the person and more about the politics. Bernie was "old white guy" but he excited young voters. They couldn't overcome the behemoth party machine and their big media buddies working hard to redirect voters.
Criminal justice is what got me political in the first place tbh. I can abide by your line on kamala. And I would love a female president.
- Say, for the sake of the argument, there are only 2 viable candidates. Guy #1 wants to kill 1 million people and Guy #2 wants to kill 2 million people who do you vote for?
  You vote for Guy #1. You flyer, donate, and campaign for Guy #1. If you vote for some 3rd party who can never win you aren't being brave or informed, you're literally doing nothing while Guy #2 tries to kill 2 million people.
  We don't live in a happy, beautiful world where we have the privilege of picking the policies we want to enact. We have 2 choices and they are "bad" and "worse". This isn't about your feelings. This is about the actual impact that bad policy will have on millions and millions of Americans.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/harris

I'm not a Biden superfan either but I think people need to be aware of the reality. I have kids that don't feel like voting because "Biden does not excite them". While he doesn't excite me either, it's important to understand that not voting for Biden is essentially a step in the direction of the "other guy", which happens to me MUCH MUCH WORSE than Biden.
It's naive to think that you can go from a to z without going through b, c, d, etc... We don't vote for the ideal candidate, we vote for one that at least seems to be pointing in the right direction and has a chance to win.
Also remember that this whole "both sides are the same shit, so why vote" idea was spread around exactly to discourage people from voting. It's key to be mindful of that.
I'll say I have a considerably higher opinion of him now than I did in 2020. Then, I basically voted for a seat-filler, hold down the fort so the fascists aren't in power. Now, I'm fairly impressed.
But the fact remains that the man is 80. Sometimes he looks like a canny old man, and I kind of like canny old men, those old guys who are sharp as a tack with a wit to match. And sometimes he just looks elderly. I don't like the idea of the oldest president ever three times in a row. Frickin 80, he'll be 86 by the end of a second term. That's a problem. And while I don't have any problems with Harris, a lot of folks do.
My best hope is that he's saying he's running because it's politically weak if he doesn't. And if Trump is convicted of something before 2024, he'll bow out and there will be a democratic primary. Worst case scenario, I won't feel bad about voting for him again.
Well maybe a little - the man deserves a comfortable retirement.

Democrats have done a shit job at selling their victories as well as their vision for the country, as always.

Then come election time they are always wondering why aren't Democratic voters more excited to vote for them.

I am so sick of that same cycle repeating over and over again. Republicans voters are so adamant about getting their people in power that they will break the law and vote twice, and Dem voters aren't excited enough to even show up at the polls.

I also have to add that it's infuriating that the Dems are so splintered of a party that they consider black voters are their most loyal demographic. Nothing against them, but for fucks sakes guys at best black folks only represent 13% of the population. You can't win any elections even if you won every single black vote. They aren't even the largest minority group. Latinos represent just under 20% but many of them support the GOP. Dems need to stop turning their backs on some much larger demographic groups out there. Because they focus on just a few smaller groups, that's why they are always scrounging for votes even in elections that they should have in the bag. It is embarrassing how poorly run the Democratic party is, quite frankly.

It's insane that racist people like you aren't banned from here yet, you're the same anti-black racist that made me leave reddit years ago and now you're here to spread your anti-black garbage again
You people need to join the nazi party because that's all you represent anymore, you're literally siding with White Nationalism and repeating their same rhetoric
- LOL
  Get bent. I didn't say a single thing that is "anti black" but apparently these days unless you are actively pandering to certain groups and lavishing them with endless praise, you are automagically labeled as being "anti-" by mentally impaired individuals.

so while I'm sure this is a factor it really has to be pointed out that the media really wants to play shit up to keep the batshit GOP viable. It sells papers (clicks, whatever). The WaPo is bad, but when you look at NYT columns it really skews right in a weird and alarming way

As someone who voted Barr-Romney-Johnson-Biden I’m gonna be in the booth pissed I’m voting for Biden again considering the libertarians fully lost the plot and Republicans went full fascist with trump

I miss Uncle Gary.
- I voted for Romney because I didn’t like the Johnson wing of the party…. I felt it was a bit to far down the end of burn it all down. He reeled it back in a little bit then I remember a crowd booing him for stating drivers licenses aren’t bad or something and I knew it had gone full unhinged.
- What a legend, too bad he died of a weed overdose during that interview

It's pretty obvious who to vote for considering Republicans are actively attacking our country. Sorry, I don't vote for terrorists.

I'm not going to turn out for Biden. Turns out Aussies are not allowed to vote in the U.S. elections. 🦘

not with that attitude
It’s only like 300k in donations and you too can participate in this dumpster fire
- **"only like 300k" ** ;)
  Good to know it's an option!

God, they really think the problem is a lack of outreach and communication huh?

How about y'all fuckn listen?

Are you surprised?
Neoliberals want to run the country like a corporation, and they've been running the party like it was for decades. It's why the most important thing they care about is fundraising.
Whether they do anything or not once elected isn't something they're worried about. They just worry about how to keep getting donations.
So yeah. To them the biggest problem is outreach and communication
- Neoliberals want to run the country like a corporation, and they’ve been running the party like it was for decades. It’s why the most important thing they care about is fundraising. Whether they do anything or not once elected isn’t something they’re worried about. They just worry about how to keep getting donations.
  That's because candidates care about winning, and fundraising correlates to victory most of the time, (70%.)
  The candidate who spends the most usually wins. This trend is stronger in the House than the Senate but applies in both chambers.
Unfortunately I think this is everything running just as intended. They get to stay in power because the other guys are actually insane, and they don't actually have to do anything. What's the worst that can happen? The Republicans win? The rich (them) will just keep getting richer babyyy, just like always. And they provide democrats with really good campaign material, again, without actually having to do anything.

Well I'll be there, but it's just because I'd vote for a dead cat over anything the GOP will dredge up.

He was too old the first time, I'm surprised he made it this long. I was under the impression that their plan was to have biden die during his term so kamala became the first woman president.

"... Their plan was to have Biden die...."
Can you hear yourself? That's f'ng crazy.
- My dad said the same shit. He got it from his Facebook echo chamber. Except they called her was gross names.
- I dont think theyre plan was to outright let him die during the presidency, but I did think they would bust out the 25th amendment at least a year ago to put Kamala in charge
- You think they didn't consider the possibility when they chose a 78 year old to run for president? It was probably more likely than not. Now even more so.
Also, Kamala is a pretty bad choice too due to her record as a district attorney. I still can't believe the Democrats ran with her despite police reform being such a huge issue in 2020
- Lol I can believe it, do you think the Democrats actually want to do anything about the police?

Democrats only lose if the Democrats beat themselves. And they seem to be trying to do that.

Cackles in Kamala Harris

You mean what republicans are doing extremely consistently?

Funny given I'm only a democratic voter because socialist isn't a viable option where I live, yet I absolutely vote Democrat 99% of the time when it's an option.

For those unaware, most smaller offices the opposition party won't even bother with a candidate. By and large, Republicans have no chance in sense cities (like Chicago or NYC) and Democrats have no chance in just about anywhere rural.

Democrats have no chance in just about anywhere rural.
Democrats are doing very well in just about all rural areas of New England.
New England is obviously different culturally than many other areas of the US, but Dems could definitely take some valuable lessons from that area.
- That's because New England's rural is like everywhere else's (in the US at least) suburban...

I've experienced a infinitesimal fraction of the bullshit, and empathize with the disillusionment. The system is dying. Trump did his damage already. That and worse are inevitable. Money in politics. Money in all of it, i mean you have people being locked up in the name of corporate, and ecobomic interest ffs. I vote in all the elections especially local because that can help shift police behavior for the better of day to day people. I didn't always vote. When trump first won I was listening on a broken wireless am radio in a shitty apt with no power or food in absolute wonder at the depravity of man and the meaning of it all for me... I didn't vote that year. Fuck me right? I didn't even know where the polls were. The people not voting are the ones pushing boundaries IMHO. What we are opposed to is the ruling class. The dnc bootlickers and fascists alike can get fucked.

Wed need the second coming of Jesus to save this version of "democracy" ffs.

There zero chance democrats dont show up if trumps on the ballot nobody is better at energizing the democrats base than trump

Trump on the ballot was what got me to vote. I've never really been jazzed enough to vote for someone, but I was sure angry enough to vote against.
I was just talking to a family member, and I was saying that I hope that it is trump. If the Republicans could put together any other non-controversial opponent, that person would destroy Biden in an election. Of course, I was happy that trump was running against Hillary as I thought he was the only opponent she could probably beat, so my prognostication skills are pretty shitty.
Too bad the DNC is such a corporate shithole that they are unable to back any strong progressives.

It's almost like he made a bunch of promises and then the democrats deliberate self-sabotaged so that they wouldn't have to actually fufil them.

What's that, we can't fix the senate because the parliamentarian said so? I guess the filibuster is insurmountable then. It certainly isn't like we can just ignore or replace said parlimentarian.

What's that, rather than using the clear and unambiguous means of forgiving student debt, we're going to use a method that the Republicans can easily block with a lawsuit that goes to their bought-and-paid-for Supreme Court? Guess you're stuck in debtor's hell forever.

Campaign on worker and union rights but then pass laws to force the railroad workers back to work without striking and without any rights.

Republicans are traitors and Democrats are nigh-on useless, and they wonder why voter turnout looks grim.

Of course it’s a conspiracy and not that there was a 50/50 tie in the Senate, which meant you needed 100% support from every Dem Senator, including a guy from a super conservative state who is looking out for his own political future. Obviously if they couldn’t make sweeping changes then it has to be because that’s their master plan, and we shouldn’t bother trying to get an actual solid majority into Congress
- If the party would quit finding just enough no votes, people would have no reason to point it out.
I've said this before, but I'll say it again. He is doing (some) good shit, Dems are just shit at PR.
The Union Busting was a bad look, all around. No one can dispute that. It left a (rightfully) bad taste in the mouths of the working class. The Biden Administration publicly showed that it does not support Labor Rights when push came to shove.
But, the Biden Administration did end up putting continuous pressure on the railroads to earn said paid sick days for the rail workers
No one is fucking talking about it though (I myself just learned about it a week ago), because again, Dems are fucking awful at PR. And it's going to hurt them in the election.
I'm starting to truly question whether or not it's on purpose that they're so quiet about certain stuff that they do, especially when it's to their own detriment.
- I’m starting to truly question whether or not it’s on purpose that they’re so quiet about certain stuff that they do, especially when it’s to their own detriment.
  Because it's the bare minimum and they wish to avoid probing questions about why they won't do more.
- The fact that he went against the union in public, did some dealings to get concessions, and the news about it being pretty hush hush after the fact makes it seem even worse to me tbh."Don't get any big ideas" energy.
Democrats have zero passion. They always stuck with status quo, so the only reason to vote for them is because they're still susceptible to shame and are willing to eat their own to keep a veneer of respectability. Remember in the US there's a far-right party and a center-right party. The US is dying a very slow, painful death while its population bickers about beer and Barbie.
Some people are downvoting you, but you summed it up exactly as it is.
You aren't even using the right terminology. And don't understand they don't have a solid majority. You're a bit clueless

First of all, I don't even understand the mindset of someone who doesn't vote. So you don't really like any of the candidates, so what? Vote for the least worst option or the actual worst option could win (see: 2016).

Second, to be fair, any party could try running someone who's less than a million years old. American politics are so bizarre this way. Canada's current PM was 43 when he was elected and still more than 30 years younger than America's current president. Parliament is populated largely by middle agers and a few younger members, whereas congress is a sea of bald and gray, pockmarked by a small handful of 40 somethings? Shit is ridiculous.

Privilege.
Not them tho, you. Your privilege is why you can't understand it.
Some people have to wait 8 hours in line while taking a day off work without pay. All for someone whose not going to actually help them. Their choice is "things get obviously worse for me" and "things get worse for me, but slower and no one talks about it".
We could try actually following thru with campaign promises and helping them, but for some reason we dont. Once elected all the Dem presidents in the last 3-4 decades immediately start telling us their campaign promises are obviously impossible so they're just not going to really try.
Even Obamacare was just Mitt Romney's plan by the time it happened.
Personally tho, it takes less than an hour for me to vote and I get a paid half day from work to do so. So I always vote.
That doesn't mean I assume it's as easy for everyone else
- Privilege.
  Not them tho, you. Your privilege is why you can't understand it.
  Are you determined to not have allies of any kind?
  I get that your state is fucked, but as a resident of one of the other 49 states, my options to help are limited as long as we lack one of the the chambers of Congress since the gop is literally the problem here.
  We could try actually following thru with campaign promises and helping them, but for some reason we dont.
  That would be because we don't have control of the House. It's difficult to get work done when the side in control of the button that stops everything from working sits on the fucking button while shrieking racist epitaphs at the top of their lungs.
- Isn't "things get worse slower" better than "things get worse right away?" What happened to pragmatism? If things get worse slower, there's a chance to stop them in the future.
In a lot of areas voting isn't easy. It's something you have to work to do. Why stand in the freezing November air worried you're gonna be late for work and lose your job if you're not excited? Why do it in the morning? Because maybe you're me in your 20s and don't have a car and you can actually make it to when the polls open in the morning but not the evening with how the schedules run.
Why go up to the election office and force them to take your mail in ballet after it was rejected twice because your signature "didn't match" if you're not excited?
Why finagle a time in your day when you can stand in the cold for an hour without your baby if you're not excited?
Why stand until you want to literally because the line was way longer than you thought it was and you didn't bring a chair this time if you're not excited?
All this happened to me over the course of me voting in my adult life. This doesn't count how voting locations constantly move on me for reasons unknown. It's not that the voting location moved. For some reason I was just assigned a different location. The times where I've been given the run around about where I should vote. The times where I tried to vote, but whoops all the machines are broken and I decided that I didn't want to wait for a repair which could take hours.
Voting is hard. It can be a breezy affair, but I've never experienced that in presidential elections or midterms, only really in special state elections or pure local elections. The system is definitely rigged against you and you have to ask yourself if it's worth fighting. Is denying my kid's time with me worth this? Is enduring this strain on my body worth this? Is the mental energy when I'm tired from work worth this? I get what you'd say no even if I always say yes
- Oh yeah, that's another thing. For something that's supposed to be a sacred right, voting is made absurdly difficult in the US.
  In Canada, employers are legally obligated give up to three hours PTO to vote. There are usually two or three advance polls if election day doesn't work for you. Every podunk town in the country has a polling station setup. Basically every form of ID imaginable is accepted. You can register to vote by mail online weeks before an election, receive your ballot and return it in the included prepaid envelope.
  Elections Canada bends over backwards to give everyone the opportunity to vote. But it's like America doesn't actually want people to vote at all.
- Pretty sure that every state (with maybe a handful of exceptions?) provides for required unpaid time off work to vote. There's also lots of places that have early voting, for weeks ahead of an election, with early and late hours. Mail-in voting has expanded dramatically since Covid.
  But I get it. There are also lots of places in the country where voting is hard, and there's a very clear reason why. The more people who vote, the more likely that a Democrat will win and a Republican will lose. It is always Republicans who want to make voting harder, and it is always Democrats who want to make voting easier.
  You want it to be easy to vote, so you don't have to be as excited about voting? Go vote for the people who want to make it easy to vote, and stop voting for people who want to make it hard to vote. If nothing else, get excited about making it easier to vote.
That sounds a whole lot like lesser evil bullshit. There is no lesser evil, only ever expanding, ever growing evil.
- If you have to choose between two evils, and you don't choose the lesser one, then you are an absolute knobhead.
- What you're advocating for helps the greater evil, bud.
- Of course there are lesser evils. I'd much rather have President Nixon than President Hitler. If those were my two choices, I'd vote Nixon.

I don't cross picket lines, why would I vote for a union buster? Balk all you want but that's my hard line. Already listed out the local reps I can't vote for because of the same reason. Y'all can bend your beliefs however you want to justify feedin into the same old cycle but I told them this was my hard line and they crossed it. Fuck them.

If Trump is elected do you think that his administration would be more friendly to unions than the Biden administration?
If you're mad about Biden forcibly ending the rail strike (which was honestly infuriating) you should know that his administration continued to work with the labor union afterward to negotiate a deal while also avoiding a disastrous economic shutdown that would have resulted from the strike. Could Biden have done more to get a deal without forcing an end to the strike? Maybe. Should he have let the economy collapse in order to support labor rights? Maybe, but I understand why he didn't.
Biden was basically my last choice of the field of democrats running in 2020 but I don't know what anyone else would have done to achieve better results.
- I don't disagree with most of what you said but there's a real basic thing with the rail strike he could've done.
  If the government has the power to force a deal, he could've just given the workers the week off they asked for, forcing the companies to acquiesce instead of the people.
Honestly given the way elections work I'm the us this is a pretty shit line of reasoning
Trump is a union buster and more
- Cool, im not voting for Trump. Whatever happend to be the change you want to see in the world? If more people voted for their best interest candidate, not just whoever has the better chance at winning, maybe our democracy would work.
Not voting democrat is a direct vote for fascism. Just because it's not ideal and not fair doesn't make it any less true.
- Just because it’s not ideal
  It's always ideal for people who say this.
This is a very privileged position to take. Certain demographics in our country are facing genocide at the hands of one party.
"Same old cycle" is right wing propaganda. Biden is by far the most progressive president we've ever had.
- You're dillusional to call biden the most progressive president we've ever had. And tell me which unprivileged people Biden has been protecting? Far as I can see he let trans people back in the military then let the states do whatever they wanted to trans youth, and let the local courts sort it out. I bet they feel so safe now.
- Having standards is not a "privileged position", it couldn't be more opposite
  Also having lived through the 1990's, Joe Biden couldn't be more conservative if he wanted to be, he's a classic Dixiecrat from the South larping as a progressive for votes
- 😂

Should have thought of that at least 2 years ago.

About two years ago the White House was signing off on proposals from the city of Memphis to spend tens of millions of dollars of COVID money on police officers, which is one of the ways federal taxpayer money got put into the pockets of the people who beat Tyre Nichols to death
- Yes how dare we... Let cities govern themselves

I think it’s a losing message to campaign on “everything is fine” when the vast majority of Americans are struggling.

Breaking Points covered this article and highlights that the current expectation is to simply say “we’re better than trump”. I don’t think this is very effective and believe that only an economic message can sway voters.

Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/Kza2iEqzwk4
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.

I’m sorry to bring up Reddit, but being interested in US politics (I’m not from the US) I’m impressed with the level of discussion here.

Almost every political reddit comment section I’ve encountered was a cesspool of such polarized left vs right opinions that anything more nuanced and centered was buried right away.

I feel like that's the problem in almost any political debate among people in the US. Everything is so polarizing. It always seems like it's a "you're either with us or against us". And you can't even discuss something you're unaware of without some know-it-all jackals jumping down your throat with political rage.
- I try so incredibly hard to be even keeled and not jump down throats with political rage. But even the phrase you used there, "you're either with us or against us" my first though was gee who's fault is that. (Bush II leading up to the iraq invasion in 2003 if anyone doesn't know. 20 years ago so officially history I guess.)
  No matter which angle I think about it I just can't stand the gop.
Do you actually think that? Dude, you need to read more forums. This place is an echo chamber.
Probably all the bots that are designed to push your buttons, trigger that dopamine rush from being the right one and fuck that asshole bot, and drive engagement. Instant cesspool.

Because he's over a decade past senior citizen.

Who the fuck do you think your constituents are? All retired senior citizens?

If a 35 year old was running, I'd vote for them literally for the age alone, providing there were no fascism ties.

We need to stop electing people that have not worked a job in over 60 years. It's a fucking joke.

I will vote for anyone under 40. I will NEVER vote for a senior citizen.

Fuck this bullshit.

Mother fucker if Biden is the not-Trump option then you better vote for his senior citizen ass. Elections have consequences. Be idealistic in the primary but for fucks sake vote logically on election day.
Staying home or voting 3rd part/write in is a vote for Trump and is indirect violence against your fellow citizens and others around the world. How many more people would be alive today if we didn't have Trump purposely providing bad COVID information?
Lives are literally at stake. Hold your nose and pull the correct lever. It's simple harm reduction.
- The maybe they should let us, I don't know, vote in a primary election for the person we want to run as the Democrat nominee?? Just forcing Biden on us, like wtf?
- if Biden is the not-Trump option then you better vote for his senior citizen ass.
  I think part of the reason why people feel they don't have a choice is because the DNC seems to have just chosen biden instead of letting any other democratic candidate have a chance at the nominee.
- If you even have the privilege to vote. Lol.
- Staying home or voting 3rd part/write in is a vote for Trump
  no, it's not. it's abstaining or voting for someone who isn't trump.
- you don't seem to know what harm reduction means.
- If a candidate wants my vote, they need to earn it. I've done enough of voting against, and from now on I'm only voting for.
  What I see is that Democrats can't put up any candidates who are actually worth voting for and then to top it off they push insulting slogans like "Vote Blue No Matter Who." If other Democratic voters really want to swallow that with no pushback, that is their business. But I'm not doing it anymore.
  But don't you dare go and demand who I vote for while claiming the consequences of not would result in some imagined violence. It's bad enough when the DNC is lying to me but then I have to read nonsense takes of Liberals making threats because they've scared themselves to death with their own propaganda.
- No, i dont think I'll hold my nose. They want the vote... earn it...
- Mother fucker, no. I'll vote how I want, and not how some one else tells me.
  That's what makes it my vote.
Then you’re helping to elect Trump. Simple as that.
- wrong. the only people who help elect trump are the people who vote for trump.
- The reason we're in this mess is because of political tribalism. If we actually want different candidates, we gotta vote for them.
- Not true.
  But even if it were, then the system is fucked and it deserves to burn.
Vivek is, to my knowledge, the youngest candidate. Although he's not my first choice, I think he has some solid arguments, and understanding of where the culture is at and the persisting issues in our government.
- I said no to ties with fascists. So, hard, hard pass.

Oh look - election season has officially kicked off with the DNC's first attempt at trying to guilt trip people into voting for their shitty candidate.

Expect many MANY more of these in the months to come.

It really takes a special kind of scumbag to decide that the proper strategy is to nominate a dismally corrupt and/or incompetent sack of shit then try to guilt trip people into voting for them and blame the voters if they lose, when they could just nominate a decent candidate and people would willingly and even eagerly vote for them and they'd win easily.

I sometimes wonder what it's like to be that entirely devoid of principles or integrity.

I imagine it involves a lot of alcohol.

Nobody needs to initiate any type of guilt trip. We've all been through 4 years of Trump. We currently are (finally) starting to see the indictments that wrought.
We have seen what DeSantis has done to Florida. Where, just today, they effectively outlawed AP Psychology for high school students. State-level brain drain, and trans genocide.
There's no option here and you're a piece of shit if you don't vote, or if you vote for the party that is literally an organized crime syndicate at this point, with a candidate who literally (and I mean like literally literally) should be in prison right now.
If you still need to be guilt tripped in order to make the right choice, then it sounds like you're kind of a piece of shit.
- We saw all that because democrats thought they knew best and pushed hillary as the nominee in 2016. A candidate so shitty that she lost against trump of all people. Many important lessons that democrats refuse to learn -- likely intentionally. But yeah, shame voters for not voting the way you want them to instead of, you know, giving them something worth voting for. Truly a democracy.
I'm really sick of people on the left playing this game. In politics, the perfect is often the enemy of the good. Biden is the candidate because he's the incumbent and has the best chance of winning. Full stop. He's not a shitty candidate even if he isn't your perfect candidate.

Incumbents historically win reelection more often than not, and the election hasn't started properly yet.

They didn't turn out in the midterms because Trump wasn't on the ballot.

Give people the option of 4 more years of Biden or going back to Trump, they'll turn out. I'm not concerned about that.

I'm more concerned about congress

They are tired of being promised 40 acres and only given lip service. The DNC uses minorities as political pawns to be used and tossed aside the day after election and minority communities have caught on. Hopefully they will turn out in huge numbers to support Cornel West. Someone that offers the same rhetoric and policy Bernie did without being a party sheepdog.

Cornell West, who's campaign is being run by Jill "lunch with Putin" Stein. I thought more of West than to be an obvious Republican plant. I don't even care what I think about Biden, he is the incumbent president and will be the candidate. I'll vote for him in a second because the alternative is literally the likely destruction of the United States as we know it.
This isn't hard. The US is a two party system right now. I don't understand why people think a third party is ever a good idea right now. Maybe third parties should run in local elections instead of this dumb spoiler candidate for the president vs
- The thing is that there's never a "good time" to vote third party because we're locked in to a forever crisis. And if you think the democrats will fix it, I think that you're mistaken. IMO, the democrats haven't been serious about fixing stuff basically since Johnson. Carter had a lot of good ideas, but his legacy as president is basically "that guy where gas prices started going up"; Clinton did address some problems (like the deficit), which got the republicans big mad, but failed to address a bunch of other serious issues that would have been much less painful to solve in the 90s; Obama's basically the same way, only two wars kept him from even dreaming of a balanced budget. The democrats basically just stop making things actively worse for a little bit. Sometimes I wonder if this is what it was like to live through the demise of the Roman republic; Caesar is coming, our democracy is floundering and ineffectual, and the best that we've got is to shrug and vote for "not a Nazi". Don't get me wrong: never, ever vote for the Nazi, but come on, we have got to do better than that or things or going to keep getting a lot worse.
- Nice liberal bullshit neocon talking points you have there. We have a 2 party system because liberals allow it. They are so comfortable with the oppressive status quo and are terrified of the idea of being inconvenienced by the progress of others. There was a reason MLK warned society about liberals. They are the sole reason nothing meaningful for the general public ever gets done.
  We won't be voting for your shitty CEO owned warhawk candidate, so if Dems lose the WH this was the work of Dem voters.
I want more candidates like Cornel West.
I am excited to vote. Maybe another candidate can catch my attention too.... please? The one party system outside of swing states is boring. Biden was a not Trump vote which is also boring. We can do better than the current voting arrangement.
Wait, Cornell West is running?
- As a third party, which will just split the liberal/centrist vote.
- As a third party candidate, which is useful presuming one wants to split the left.
- Yes! He's running as a green. And the democrats are 'concerned' and telling people don't vote third party or else you'll get trump!
  But then when asked why they won't add something like STAR voting to their platform, they go quiet. They love holding us hostage and don't want to give that up! 🤣
- Yep

If people don't vote for Biden they are voting for the end of the US and democracy around the globe.

Democracy is letting the people choose for themselves, so if the people don't vote for him it's democracy all the same.
- He/she probably means this will be the last time you vote democratically. Meaning without fraud and with press freedom.
  I don't understand the comment about democracy in the rest of the world. The US won't change that.
- Except republicans actively seek to circumvent democracy whenever they're in power.
  See Ohio's Issue 1 and rampantly, illegally, gerrymandered districts
- Choosing to let the fascists win is certainly a choice. It's not a good choice, but it's a choice.
- In normal times, sure.

Black voters might either abstain or, potentially, be swayed by Republican messaging on certain key issues.

If Republicans magically sweeten up on Tim Scott, that's going to be hella bad. We'll be energy independent as bee's homes melt and with a dude significantly more partial to racists than anyone that's black should be.

I have a suspicion that Tim Scott, if given full up-close magnification as a front runner, would creep people out with his unmarried, maybe-a-virgin, obvious Christian closet-case routine.
Refusing to be who you are, and instead allying yourself with the very people who hate who you really are, is some Stockholm shit by way of South Carolina.
That link is weird. Honeybees are not native to Arizona; they're an introduced species from Europe and Africa. There are native bees, but they don't build nests of easily meltable wax.
https://www.pollinator.org/pollinator.org/assets/generalFiles/AZ_bee_guide_FINAL.pdf

You shouldn’t be allowed to hold office if you’re over 50. Find someone under 50 and people might get excited.

I’m sick and tired of this gerontocracy. It’s always been pasty faced old men running the show. They readily sell out everyone’s futures because they won’t be there to face the consequences.

Presidents have to be at least 35 according to the Constitution. I don't know that limiting the presidency to a 15-year age window is the best plan either.

I was told that Biden was the more electable candidate. If this was the case this shouldn’t be an issue right?

Young black guy here (mid 20s), I'll be voting for Biden. Recently changed my party affiliation from Independent to Democrat.

Voting is easy. Read this document to the end. https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=23894046-us-v-trump-23-c

This is the best summary I could come up with:

Democrats are worried about a potential drop next year in turnout among Black voters, the party’s most loyal constituency, who played a consequential role in delivering the White House to President Biden in 2020 and will be crucial in his bid for reelection.

Such warning signals were initially papered over by other Democratic successes in 2022: The party picked up a U.S. Senate seat in Pennsylvania, Sen. Raphael G. Warnock won reelection in Georgia and anticipated losses in the House were minimal.

Advocates expect that trend to continue, particularly with Vice President Harris on the ticket and the appointment of Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, who both made history as the first Black women in their roles.

Williams acknowledged any growth in support among Black voters could be harder for the GOP if Trump is the nominee — and there will be many other groups, including suburban White women, that the party will have to worry about in that case.

In Detroit, liberal organizers targeting Black turnout have made education about how politics work a centerpiece of their pitch, along with concrete examples of policies that have benefited people from state and federal legislation.

“There is a slow leaking of Black men from the base because the issues that they care about aren’t being addressed,” said Branden Snyder, executive director of Detroit Action, whose organizers tell people the exercise is more like writing a Yelp review to spur change.

I'm a bot and I'm open source!

I'll still be here for Dems you silly goose.

He was supposed to do a single term. Surely he's not the best we can do.

Biden was chosen based on the false belief that he was the safest candidate to go up against Trump.
That was utter nonsense, obviously. He SQUEAKED by, because the Democratic electorate was voting AGAINST Trump, rather than for Biden.
I literally don't know anyone who was excited by Biden.
Imagine if we'd had a candidate people were excited about voting FOR. It would have been all the anti-Trump votes Biden got PLUS more votes from people who actually wanted our candidate.
We keep shooting ourselves in the foot when we choose candidates who are centrist... As if that's pulling off any Republican voters... Or as if the conservative media is giving our guys a break!
Republicans will vote for their cult leader, and call everyone else communist pedophiles.
- I couldn't agree more.

Consider, it might not be the candidate, it might be the political economy.

Why does the thread act like primaries aren't a thing and that Biden didn't defeat a field of like 10 people who ran. There were multiple debates. The people voted.. Are we just in full acceptance of conspiracy theories that imply all the people who can vote are puppets without control?

I mean... there was the whole superdelegate thing
- Yeah, the primary field essentially went up like flash paper over the course of a week or two, IIRC, with everyone committing to give their delegates to Biden, who wasn't who their voters had voted for.
- Superdelegates have never decided a democratic primary.
  At the end of the day the delegates are fully aware that if they take the nomination away from the candidate that won the most votes that it would utterly destroy the party and they would be surrendering that year's election up and down the ballot. Even in an extreme scenario like e.g. credible accusations of sexual assault coming out, they'd still be reticent to do it and would basically be stuck picking how to lose the election.
  And before anyone says it: superdelegate pledges do not sway primary voters in any meaningful numbers. I'd wager >90% of democratic primary voters don't know what the fuck a superdelegate is, and likely only have superficial understanding of the overall process by which a nominee is selected. They're not going to know the superdelegate pledge counts or any of that bullshit. The people that follow politics enough to know that stuff are also overwhelmingly the people that care enough about politics that they're still going to vote for the same person, even if they do not outright know it's bullshit. The audience of voters that could be swayed by those pledges is so vanishingly small as to be borderline imaginary.
  Superdelegates have only mattered to give losing candidates a justification they can offer to their supporters to keep running. Clinton tried it in 2008 and Sanders tried it in 2016. Amusingly this makes both of them a bit hypocritical on the subject...
  The 2020 primary came down to the not-Sanders wing of the party starting off heavily divided and then consolidating on a single candidate after enough of them were winnowed out by the early states. Biden only survived that long because he ran a frugal campaign and had a strategy on SC that he was going to stick to. Honestly, going in I thought it was a horrible strategy with no chance of success. I was clearly quite wrong.

Ugh who cares. Be an adult and do what's best with what we have.

Black Democratic voters in 2020:

"On the one hand we have Bernie Sanders, who literally got arrested at sit-in fighting for Black people's civil rights. He's been out front on our side of essentially every political issue for his entire career.

"On the other hand we have Joe Biden who has a problematic history of voting on the wrong side of civil rights during the bussing controversy, and has eventually evolved into a follower, rather than a leader on civil rights issues.

"Ah what the hell, let's give it to Biden!"

Black Democratic voters now:

"Well, our choice is between Biden, who is doing ... Okay. Or Trump, who is famously a bigot, who practiced segregation in his own apartment buildings, and who has a history of soft acceptance of literal neo-nazis.

"... I guess we should just sit this one out."

Yeah snuffing out collective bargaining broke any chance of me voting dem.

So you support how Republicans are voting then? They're historically great with collective bargaining agreements. 🙄
- The current dems are conservative and just as damaging as republicans. Im not falling for this hostage situation anymore, the hostage is dead and outlawing collective bargaining was the execution. Im only voting for progressive parties
The rail workers got the sick time they asked for.
- B-b-but they didn't make a big show of it! How can I support someone who does some of what I want but doesn't cover it in theatrics?
- Not all of them. And not as much as if theyd been allowed to collective bargain. And this doesnt address the huge loss in future bargaining leverage, in union membership numbers, because whats the point with this precedent that your union isnt allowed to actually use their one point of leverage?

You know who black men dislike more than Joe Biden as the nominee? Kamala Harris as the VP. Joe ought to ask either of the Obamas to run with him and lock up the election before it even starts. Pick Michelle if he really wants to piss in the MAGA cereal bowl.

Man, this thread is a fucking goldmine of idiots to block. So many edgelords and tankies doing Trump's campaigning for him.

I haven't seen any tankies, and I think you are going to be very disappointed in the blocking feature anyway

Pay very close attention to the fact that they are using races for voter projections.

Take that information as you will.

how do you take that information?
- They are trying to appeal to certain races for votes rather than appeal to everyone.
  Your race doesn't matter, your nationality does. We are all Americans, this isn't what MLK fought and died for, quite the opposite actually.
  Trying to gain the favor of a certain race is the same idea as "equal but separate", it's nothing but a crock of shit. There is no "us vs them" in the race department of politics.

I'm over here hoping that Vivek Ramaswamy runs and I can vote for him. Heck, as a liberal, I'll vote for Trump if he takes Ramaswamy on as vice-president, that's how much I like him.

Fuck the DNC. Until they stop pulling their bullshit no-debate tactics, I'm not voting for their candidates.

I should've known Lemmy instances would be filled with dems

not all of us
- Seems to be mostly a supermajority of Dems on Lemmy from most of the instances I've seen. But I only just got into Lemmy thanks to Infinity making a Lemmy fork so maybe there's a more sane instance out there

As soon as Biden blocked the rail strike he lost my vote. I will leave blank vote before I vote Biden. If trump winds up winning again because the DNC can't put forward a decent candidate then that's on them. I'm tired of voting for the lesser of two evils and I'm not going to do it anymore. If the candidate isn't worth voting for then I'm not voting for them regardless of who their oponent is.

He blocked the rail strike, then went and got the majority of rail companies to comply with the sick leave provisions: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/01/railroad-workers-union-win-sick-leave
Bad hot take. The reason that Congress couldn’t couldn’t get the rail deal done is that there were too many Republicans that prevented passing the law. Don’t give Republicans more power.
Let’s quote an expert.
Joseph McCartin, a labor historian at Georgetown University, said: “It’s a significant set of quiet victories. It shows that it really makes a difference to have a pro-labor president.”
because the DNC can't put forward a decent candidate
Hold up. You think either party would endorse someone other than their own incumbent president?? That's insane. If you don't vote, you're okay with throwing it to the Republican candidate?
Do you know how Republicans feel about the rail workers strike? How about my right to healthcare as a woman? Or the insane environmental policy they just came up with? The constant attacks on schools, libraries, and LGBTQ+ people?
There are so many more things I could list out. Cutting Medicare and social safety nets, slashing taxes for the rich, defunding the IRS, privatizing the internet, etc etc etc. Deciding not to vote because of the rail workers strike is INSANE. Was I happy about it? No. I'm still angry. But holy fuck there's so much going on. I can't possibly understand how you could ignore all the rest because of that. I also hate the DNC. I hated them in 2016, and I will hate them forever. But I guess I'm not selfish enough to throw a tantrum and withhold voting when it matters. And it DOES matter.

Caused inflation? This is the most brain dead take I've heard so far. How are people this dense? This has to be a bot.
How did he back down on student loan forgiveness? Biden administration is still pushing and working on that issue.
What do you think the President can do to "fix our broken system riddled with corruption" while also fighting a very real threat to the end of democracy? That is really the job of Congress, and Biden has said many times that he'll sign whatever the Dems send him. But they don't have the votes there and everything is even more chaotic, but at least blame the right people.
- I'll preface this with saying I am a Bernie supporter who (unenthusiastically) voted for Hillary and Biden in 16/20 respectively, and I'll probably vote for Biden again because we live in hell world. My biggest issue with Biden and student loans is how long it took to implement an obviously shaky plan. Do it earlier on and it doesn't look like you are using it to string along voters for 2024. Is that the actual reason behind why it took so long for the executive order/whatever the new attempt to get going? No idea, but it sure does feel that way. Signed, a bummed out lefty.
I have a hard time believing someone who throws both the "printed too much money" and "backed down on student loans" talking points at the wall is a real person with a coherent political ideology.
bidens hands were tied in regards to the Afghanistan withdrawal. trump fucked that up and every president since 2001 was more responsible than biden.
Yeah, I hate how Biden printed too much money with those COVID stimulus payments and PPP bailouts.
Wait...

Wait, Black people won't vote for a cognitively disabled old fart who's politics are out of touch with the needs of a Black community and catered to loony white leftists? Fuck me, I'm surprised.

As a loony white leftist, I'm wondering at what point anybody catered to me?
- They probably think liberals are leftists lol

😂