Sell Me on Linux
Sell Me on Linux
I posted this as a comment in another post but when I got done I realized it would probably just be better as its own post. I'm sure I could find the answers I need myself but frankly I trust the userbase here more than most online articles.
As my username hints at, I'm a lawyer. I'm considering starting my own firm as a solo practitioner. I need a computer and/or laptop for it, and as a new business my budget would be pretty tight. I've mostly only ever used windows, but I'm getting fed up with the bullshit, so I'm considering going with Linux.
I assume Linux is capable of doing everything I need, which is primarily handling word documents, viewing PDFs, watching evidence videos, and online research. But my concern is that some of the more commonly used video types might have trouble on Linux, or that some of the word document templates I use in Windows might have compatibility issues.
I'm also nervous about using an OS I'm not familiar with for business purposes right away.
So I guess I'm asking a few questions. What is a reliable yet affordable option to get started? Are my concerns based in reality or is Linux going to be able to handle everything windows does without issues? What else might I need to know to use Linux comfortably from the get go? Is it going to take a lot of time and effort to get Linux running how I need it to?
For reference, I do consider myself to be somewhat tech-savvy. I don't code or anything, but I've built my last two home computers myself and I'm not scared of general software management, I just don't make it myself.
So, yeah, sell me on Linux, please.
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I'll instead "un-sell" you on Linux: https://tadeubento.com/2023/linux-desktop-a-collective-delusion/
Given your job I wouldn't do it:
People who need MS Office because once you have to collaborate with others Open/Libre/OnlyOffice won’t cut it. If one lives in a bubble and doesn’t to collaborate with others then native Linux apps might work and might even deliver a decent workflow. Once collaboration with Windows/Mac users is required then it’s game over – the “alternatives” aren’t just up to it.
Windows licenses are cheap and things work out of the box. Software runs fine, all vendors support whatever you’re trying to do and you’re productive from day zero. Sure, there are annoyances from time to time, but they’re way fewer and simpler to deal with than the hoops you’ve to go through to get a minimal and viable/productive Linux desktop experience.
It all comes down to a question of how much time (days? months?) you want to spend fixing things on Linux that simply work out of the box under Windows for a minimal fee. Buy a Windows license and spend the time you would’ve spent dealing with Linux issues doing your actual job and you’ll, most likely, get a better ROI.
Linux desktop is great, I love it but I don’t sugar coat it nor I’m delusional like most posting about it.
I've debunked that article before. Nearly every statement in it is wrong.
https://lemmy.world/post/7068568
It's written by someone who expected it to work 100% like the Windows on his PC he is accustomed to. But it doesn't work that way.
People who need MS Office because once you have to collaborate with others Open/Libre/OnlyOffice won’t cut it;
I use office almost daily, Libreoffice is fine for local editing and office online works if I have to collaborate.
People that just installed a password manager (KeePassXC) and a browser (Firefox/Ungoogled) via flatpak only to find out that the KeePassXC app can’t communicate with the browser extension because people are “beating around the bush” on GitHub instead of fixing the issue;
I simply installed the Bitwarden extension in Firefox and it worked flawlessly. I’m not quite sure why you would want a desktop app for a password manager (never needed this even on windows), but if you do, basically distro ships a regular Firefox package which will work just as on windows.
Anyone who wants a simple Virtual Machine and has to go thought cumbersome installation procedures like this one just to get error messages saying virtualization isn’t enable when, in fact, it is… or trying to use GNOME Boxes and have a sub-par virtualization experience;
4 commands doesn’t seem that cumbersome, it can quite literally be done in 30 seconds. Add to this the fact that it will be updated together with all other apps managed by you package manager, which is incomparably faster compared to windows update (or even most apps’ integrated self-updater)
My experience with gnome boxes was also one of the most hassle-free one ever when working with virtualisation. Worked without advanced setup on a very low-end laptop (i3 4th gen, 4gb DDR3), so I’m not quite sure what would be “sub-par”.
Designers because Adobe apps won’t run properly without having a dedicated GPU, passthrough and a some hacky way to get the image back into your main system that will cause noticeable delays;
Adobe doesn’t have a monopoly on design software. I’m not an artist though, so it could be true that the Linux alternatives aren’t full replacements. I would like to point out that, IIRC, Linus Media Group (a company with 100+ employees) uses macs for Adobe apps; windows would constantly crash, so even here the author’s conclusion (just buy a windows key) doesn’t hold up.
Gamers because of the reasons above plus a flat 5-15% performance hit;
In my experience running games though proton, this is more like a 5% difference in either direction. Native games generally run significantly better for me. Though I will admit this can depend on specific hardware and games (and proton has improved a lot over the years).
People that run old software / games because not even those will run properly on Wine;
Wine is actually starting to support an API which Microsoft has deprecated (https://www.phoronix.com/news/Wine-8.16-Released). These apps might only work on Linux in the future, not on windows anymore. I will admit that I’m not much of a retro gamer, and other API’s might be a different story.
Developers and sysadmins, because not everyone is using Docker and Github actions to deploy applications to some proprietary cloud solution. Finding a properly working FTP/SFTP/FTPS desktop client (similar WinSCP or Cyberduck) is an impossible task as the ones that exist fail even at basic tasks like dragging and dropping a file.
Want to start using a new language? Just apt install the new interpreter/compiler and start right away. Want to use sftp? Just type sftp into your terminal. Also, most regular file managers just support these protocols out of the box; not having to install a separate app to use these protocols sounds like a Linux win to me. Furthermore, when developing software intended for server use, linux is simply superior due to its similarity to the environment the software will eventually run on.
Just to make it clear, I understand that Linux is not perfect for everyone. But this article appears almost wilfully ignorant to multiple facts. It almost sounds like the author tried Linux for 2 hours, had a single issue they couldn’t resolve during that time (probably nvidia related, which is nvidia’s fault), and decided to give up and write salty articles instead of seeking help.
I use office almost daily, Libreoffice is fine for local editing and office online works if I have to collaborate.
So you're essentially making the point of the article "office online works if I have to collaborate" implied that LibreOffice really isn't up for collaboration.
Yes, libreoffice doesn’t really work for live collaboration. But office online is a good solution for that collaboration, and it works in any browser (including Firefox on Linux). Therefore, the author’s conclusion (you need windows to collaborate on word docs) is still wrong.
I personally also believe that WYSIWYG editors are highly overrated: markdown is significantly better for note-taking and similar small documents, and reports would often be better off with LaTeX or something similar. But I understand why the “4 commands is too much hassle to install VirtualBox” crowd might prefer word.
Yes, libreoffice doesn’t really work for live collaboration. But office online is a good solution for that collaboration (...) Therefore, the author’s conclusion (you need windows to collaborate on word docs) is still wrong.
The author isn't wrong neither he's right as the actual answer is: it depends. We don't even have to go as far as "live collaboration" if you've to do serious work in MS Office apps just emailing a document to a co-worker that uses LibreOffice can end up badly. LibreOffice works, yes, until you find your custom TOC broken, macros not working, embedded content from other documents not there... images scattered around or even paragraphs ending on a different page just because the MS version of some font is slightly different from what comes with LibreOffice but different enough to totally trash your document. Even Office online has issues with some of the things I described, let alone LibreOffice and this is precisely why people in big companies buy MS Office.
Let me show you even on a very simple document I just made how wrong you are. I created the following document in MS Word and then proceeded to open it in LibreOffice just look at the comments:
It's all simple formatting a couple of headings, text and a bullet list and yet it fails.
Now even better is that if I change the document in some way in LibreOffice and try to save it I get this message:
So... LibreOffice can't even ensure that the most basic formatting and features are displayed and saved properly. So much for "it works fine".
I personally also believe that WYSIWYG editors are highly overrated: markdown is significantly better for note-taking and similar small documents, and reports would often be better off with LaTeX or something similar.
Let me guess you're someone who works in IT and never had a typical "office job" that includes spending 90% of your time writing reports and pushing spreadsheets around. This is why you don't get it, you're not the typical user of MS Office and you don't share the same use cases the OP, the article author and myself share.
Yes, some minor formatting changes occur when opening a docx file in libreoffice. Hardly sounds like a deal breaker to me. And yes, you do get a pop-up when saving to docx in libreoffice (with the toggle to disable the pop-ups right there in the message). Microsoft office does the exact same thing when saving to an odt file though:
Once again, if you have to collaborate with office-users (and you cannot deal with the horror of having a different amount of space between the items), just use office online. How many times do I have to repeat myself?
Let me guess you’re someone who works in IT and never had a typical “office job” that includes spending 90% of your time writing reports and pushing spreadsheets around.
- No, I do not work in IT, nor do I aspire to work in IT. I'm just a regular PC-user, who just so happens to have other opinions than you do. HOW DARE I?!?
- Wouldn't IT-workers of all people know what the more optimized editors are?
This is why you don’t get it, you’re not the typical user of MS Office and you don’t share the same use cases the OP, the article author and myself share.
- The article you shared was talking about gaming, the adobe creative suite, virtual machines, electrical engineers, labs, architects and sysadmins/developers. Please don't try to claim that the article author and OP ever had "the same use cases".
- I guess you are finally correct though, I'm indeed not the typical user of MS Office (thank god). The typical user pays $70 a year just to edit word docs, while calling the family tech support each time they try to add a horizontal page in word. If your use case is being trapped into a proprietary office solution, where you have to provide a reason before microsoft allows you to shut down your onedrive, where all your documents are saved in a mythical "cloud", then I am glad that our use-cases differ.
- I hope you see the irony of you using markdown in a comment describing why I am "out of touch" for using markdown.
If you want to use windows, that's fine. But please don't share such blatantly ignorant articles, and don't try to defend them when multiple people point out why it is wrong about so many things.
I probably won't reply to your next reaction (should there be any) unless you come up with some actual arguments, instead of "the line spacing is broken, you're out of touch, not me".
How many times do I have to repeat myself?
And how many times do I have to tell you that Office Online doesn't have all the features of Office Desktop? It isn't even close.
When LibreOffice can't even make sure text ends up on the same place (as on the screenshot) it isn't good for collaboration with MS Office users.
Why is it so hard for you look at the screenshot and admit that it isn't as good as you've been saying?
using markdown in a comment describing why I am “out of touch” for using markdown.
No, you're not “out of touch” for using markdown, you're “out of touch” for implying that markdown can be a solution for the typical MS Office user as you did.
@TCB13 @Sage_the_Lawyer
many of the reasons in the article are no true!! I'm a researcher and need to write lots of pages and give them to journals. This is very delicate because if you don't write it the way they want or in other formats your paper will be rejected. I also study at university and has needs for a good office program. It's been 3 years I'm using libreoffice and i never had any problem working with others on the same file even when my professors use MS.Dude c'mon facts: https://lemmy.world/comment/5254969 not even simple bullet points.
