Trump calls for the return of mental institutions
Trump calls for the return of mental institutions
www.axios.com
Just a moment...
113 comments
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The issue with institutionalization (besides SCOTUS ruling it violates the ADA in 1999’s Olmstead v LC, rendering it illegal for anyone with a disability), is that it’s expensive. That’s why Reagan defunded them all.
To be clear, deinstutionalization was a good idea, but unlike JFK’s push, Reagan pushed for it without replacing institutions with well-funded community services. Which would be cheaper than institutions, most of which sit unoccupied and decaying, so there’s also the question of where Trump wants to put these people.
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This doesn't get said enough. Getting rid of them was a legitimately good idea, the some of the abuses in those places was hair-raising. We just didn't replace them with anything, so the mentally ill all just turned into homeless mentally ill, which just made more people miserable, which in turn probably contributes to more individual incidents of mental illness occuring.
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Im in the disability field and honestly I feel like we need something and need it bad. Not institutions, at least not like they were, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see some people in the disability community respond positively to this with the hopes that its different this time, lord know the people who like him don't believe his words at face value. I can also tell you thers definitely is a not insignificant amount of people in the community who have a neutral to faborable feeling on Trump.
The key here I think is that during the pandemic, even before mask mandates, we started seeing services get cut, orgs defunded, and staff reduced. So much of the disability community right now is relying on support staff and self directed program funding, which is essentially the disbursement of medicare and medicaid funding to one individual, not necessary with a medical background, to help the person with the disability with their day to day stuff and goals stated in their Individual Service Plan. The flexibility is great but its just one person at a time, they don't even get a budget to do things typically.
A lot of people with disabilities are missing the structure of actual organizations that has the resources to do more than what a one on one support worker can, and someone on Trumps team is either smart enough to know that, or quite lucky.
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Nice, I also used to work in the disability field (ID/A). And you’re right, although at least in my state we haven’t had cuts, more so just a lack of sufficient new funding.
I will say that I don’t think many in the disability will support this, but some do seem ignorant of the past and the old realities of institutionalization.
And yeah, self-directing is a double edged sword. I’ve seen it done well and I’ve seen it abused by families just to get some extra money, while not really sufficiently meeting the needs of their family member with disabilities. I also think it’s nearly inescapable in the future, given the staffing shortages we already see in direct care and the aging boomer population that will require even more staffing.
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question of where Trump wants to put these people.
Decriminalize/legalize all drugs, transfer all for-profit prisons back to the government and/or not for profit charities, shuffle prisoners around to free up prisons to be converted to mental healthcare and drug rehabilitation facilities, and fund it with a taxed and regulated drug market.
Not that he thinks far enough to come up with that.
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Republicans made a deal with JFK to phase out mental health hospitals and replace them with community based facilities that had a more home like atmosphere.
They did the gutting part.
Then JFK was assassinated.
Republicans decided that they didn't have to do any more after that, and LBJ used most of his political capital to get the voting rights act passed.
That's why our mental health system is so broken.
If republicans wanted to fix the system, they could start with funding the VA. Many of our troops wind up with mental health conditions due to their time in the service.
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Support our troops is a hollow catch phrase...
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back when they rolled that out (Bush era) was when they really started assaulting people with vacuous catchphrases. Opposition to the Iraq was was answered with 'support the troops!' which made no sense... okay, I support them, I don't want them to go get PTSD from urban warfare and killing civilians and leave their lives here to sit around in a tent in the desert at 130 degrees. Another one was if you opposed anything Bush/Cheney was doing, "Why do you hate America??", which is obviously a ridiculously loaded question and very shitty debate tactic.
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Don't forget the Ronald Reagan angle:
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The VA needs some serious reform in how they operate. A major problem with staffing there is just plain burn out and then 6 months to hire a replacement. The entire organization is understaffed and over worked.
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Driving the news: "When I am back in the White House, we will use every tool, lever, and authority to get the homeless off our streets," Trump said in a video posted on his campaign site in August, saying that he'll work with states to ban urban camping.
- Trump said his administration would offer treatment and other resources for people who are "just temporarily down on their luck" or have less severe mental health issues.
- "And for those who are severely mentally ill and deeply disturbed, we will bring them back to mental institutions, where they belong," he said, "with the goal of reintegrating them back into society once they are well enough to manage."
So "every tool, lever, and authority" except building shelters and affordable housing. Because, of course, the homeless themselves are the problem that needs to be fixed, not a symptom of a society that needs to be fixed.
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A Democrat proposes a way to help the mentally ill: HOW ARE WE GOING TO PAY FOR IT?
A Republican proposes a more expensive way to punish the mentally ill: NOW THIS IS GOOD POLICY
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They flat out don't understand how federal laws are enforced. Most of the shitty anti-welfare or anti-handout "ideas" they have would not save money. I always ask these chucklefucks if they would still support those ideas if they cost more than they saved. They can never answer that question.
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Yesterday, browsing wikipedia, stumbled on articles that talked about this very thing, on how Russia took advantage of mental health systems. They started to classify nonconforming, rebels as mentally ill. A frequently used diagnosis was sluggish schizophrenia. Anyone who was socially awkward, thought differently got this diagnosis. Cuz if someone is questioning our government, they must be sick in the head
They used this heavily for decades to discredit political rivals, forcible confinement, lock them away, work camps. Think gulag archipelago.
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Can you link those here ?
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I agree that we should take care of our mentally disabled instead of letting them roam the streets.
I do not think that's what cheetoman would do with those institutions.
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I'm British and we have our fair share of crazy homeless people. However, I was absolutely shocked when I visited San Francisco at the levels of crazy I saw wandering the streets. It was unbelievable and would just straight up not happen in the UK, these people would be in a hospital or care home.
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This is how it begins. Trump and his idiot sidekick fascist moron Mike Johnson will try to do a 1939 round 2 against all the gays, transgenders, stoners and while they're at it the jews again because fuck people.
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As an American Jew, I think one of the big reasons why the right is so pro-Israel is because it gives them a place to ship people like me to. They will ignore that I was born in the US, have never been to Israel, have no plans to go there, and that my ancestors didn't even come from there. (Eventually, if you go far enough back, they might, but my attempts to trace my ancestry hit a dead end in Poland.)
The right love that they could just round up all the Jews in America, stick them on a plane, and dump us in Israel to "dispose" of us.
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He belongs in one, that's for sure.
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That's a bit ironic, given that he should be committed to one himself.
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we will bring them back to mental institutions, where they belong
As someone that struggles with mental issues, and has spent some time in a facility when I was at my worst, this line pisses me off to no end. Feels no different than what he would say about so-called criminals or immigrants. Wish he would go where he belongs.
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A comprehensive mental health system would have both out-patient and in-patient treatment, just like with physical health. The problem is we've had both extremes - all institutionalization, and all out-patient.
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Very true. The place I stayed in for a few days was good though and they had out and in-patient treatment. And they recommended doing in-patient treatment where you would go in for most of the day but could go home after, after I did my locked in in-patient. I was happy with their treatment, but yeah, very much exception to the rule.
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Partial Hospitalization exists.
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But, that's SoCiaLiSM!
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I get it, mental institutions are responsible for some of the most egregious human rights violations of the 20th century.
But that's an argument to REFORM those institutions, not ELIMINATE them.
We should learn from the lessons of the past and, at the same time, make sure people get the mental health care they need.
If they can be successfully treated and released? Fantastic. If they need to be held for the rest of their lives? It's better than allowing them to roam the streets posing a danger to themselves and others.
We see it in Portland ALL THE TIME.
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I like where your head is at but I doubt Donald thinks that way. He's not really a reform person.
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I've worked in both Community Living Housing and one of the Last Institutions in Canada (Which I recently learned has closed as well). And I got FAR more training and resources to do my job at the Institution, and the residents had far more supports and programming. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, we need to reopen institutions, and just have better systems in place to prevent abuse
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He's looking for a future home, me thinks.
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Counterpoint: Mentally ill people have the same rights as everyone else and therefore can't be locked up without a criminal conviction, no matter how annoying their symptoms may be.
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I’m sure he’d love to revive the tradition of putting “troublesome” women into them.
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Yep, that was the first thing I thought of after reading the headline. I read 'The woman who.would not be silenced' and it left a big impression on me.
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For himself?
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One of Ronald Reagan's gifts to California was a homelessness problem. He closed down the state's asylums and never built the community based netowrk that was supposed to care for the mentally ill. The homeless caused an increse in petty crimes, which meant you needed more police and jails.
It worked so well he took it national when he was elected President.
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Why should he get to pick his prison? Just assign him to one and move along.
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It's very American to struggle greatly and fail to solve issues other countries don't have.
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Only if we can stick Malignant Narcissists in there.
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Careful what you wish for Donnie...
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Next prison ships
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Can't afford the rent on Mara Lago anymore eh?
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Having it classified as a mental institution should give him some huge tax breaks and government funding as well. He has certainly proved he has mental illness.
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I guess it beats prison.
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Spoken like someone who has never been in one. They’re completely different places. It’s incredibly difficult to hold someone more than a day or two in an institutionalized setting. Even SCOTUS has ruled it violates your rights (Olmstead 1999). You pretty much get to a judge within a few days of an involuntary commitment (assuming it’s the weekend, less if it isn’t) and then again within a week or two. Long term holds are insanely rare.
I’ve been in them only to visit, but I’ve heard descriptions from staff (friends) and patients (former clients of mine) and it’s nothing like the 70s. The industry went through massive reforms, partially in response to One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, but insiders had been pushing since even before that in some cases.
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Nurse Ratched belonged in a mental institution, just the other way around.
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Can we put him in one and forget about him
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Please stop spreading misinformation. You clearly don’t understand the system. As I explained in my other reply to you on this post, that’s just not how involuntary commitments work. Commitments beyond a few days are difficult, beyond a week requires such crazy evidence that some who could benefit from it don’t get it, and beyond a few weeks/a month is incredibly rare.
Obviously we need wraparound community services, but you’re pushing an outdated fiction about institutionalization.
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Fuck the hell off trump. We dont need this kind of ableist barbarism.
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Holy shit, he actually wants to do something good for the US!
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I think he wants One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest, not actual mental healthcare.
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At first I thought this might be a good thing, but then I realized “wait a minute. If Trump wants it, it must be horrible and fucked up in some way.” So I read the comments.
Yeah. It’s horrible.
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Well that is what our mental healthcare used to look like.
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113 comments