2y ago

Nonbinary genders beyond 'male' and 'female' would have been no surprise to ancient rabbis, who acknowledged tumtums, androgynos and aylonot

Men's Liberation @lemmy.ca

spaduf @slrpnk.net

2y ago

theconversation.com /nonbinary-genders-beyond-male-and-female-would-have-been-no-surprise-to-ancient-rabbis-who-acknowledged-tumtums-androgynos-and-aylonot-206827

LGBTQ+ @beehaw.org

alyaza [they/she] @beehaw.org

2y ago

Nonbinary genders beyond 'male' and 'female' would have been no surprise to ancient rabbis, who acknowledged tumtums, androgynos and aylonot

theconversation.com /nonbinary-genders-beyond-male-and-female-would-have-been-no-surprise-to-ancient-rabbis-who-acknowledged-tumtums-androgynos-and-aylonot-206827

86 comments

People sometimes assume religious traditions’ ideas about gender have always been conservative and unchanging.
In many cases, "conservative" views are actually new! Conservatisms always claim to stand for the values of the past, but they quite often make up a past that didn't actually occur.
- “The past” - you know, back when they were much younger and didn’t know how the world worked, so they made up a bunch of assumptions in their head and got mad whenever anyone told them they were wrong because it was obvious they were right since they’re brilliant and they came up with it.
- But muh white Jesus
  
  With blue eyes or else...
- case in point : wahhabism
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism#Criticism_by_other_Muslims
- A lot of "new" religions like Christianity were all about maximizing reproduction because it's easiest to indoctrinate children.
  Which leads to those religions calling anything that didn't result in children a sin.
  According to the same religious laws against LGBT, masterbation and oral/anal are just as bad.
  But they can't even give up blowjobs and expect everyone else to follow just some parts of someone else religious rules.
  
  I thought Christianity is like that because it was based on Judaism, and Judaism is like that because the Hebrews kept getting killed. Hard to keep a people if they don't reproduce and you are constantly enslaved or at war.
- You're right, and both Aboriginal and Indigenous American (many) cultures are testament to that. In some case they weren't simply accepted but seen as gifted, too.
  And there are so many more examples of this from cultures all over the globe (Indian Hijra's come to mind).
  
  I think it was the greeks or romans that had hermaphroditeis, it was a story about two lovers so joined they become one person
  
  This is a pearl in the ocean of debate on gender and sexuality. A lot of people can't fathom the fact non-binary genders exist and are accepted in other cultures because they have been socialised by their own heteronormative culture. It's understandable why a lot of people can't make heads or tails about the lgbt community for said reason, but if people get out of their information bubble and read expansively (or even better travel) outside of their worldview, then they will gain better understanding just how complex the world is, and that people of non-binary genders are actually just normal people who deserves respect like everyone else.
I first read this as "ancient rabbits" and was really confused for a moment.
- Lmaooo I'm glad I'm not the only one.
- I had no idea furries had been around that long
- The Easter bunny has some backlore!
I think it would add some much needed levity to the public conversation if we started referring to people as "Tumtums"
- “Honey what’s wrong, you’ve barely touched your Androgyn-Os.”
Hermaphroditus is literally older than Jesus. Of course the ancients knew about them. We still use their words to describe Hermaphrodites.
- You're not wrong, however it's worth mentioning that the intersex community in general would prefer that term not be used
I always say if it's in nature it's totally fine. And we see this in nature, Godzilla also swapped his gender mid-movie so what is the freaking problem with some people to acknowledge this?
- lmfao
In shinto tradition there are male, female, and deities with no gender as well. They believe they were venerated before the common era.
Ah yes, we know of the TumTum gender as well https://imgur.com/gallery/CKLmGQF
- Ro-cky LOVES Em-il-y!
I always interpreted the “don’t be gay” Bible thing to mean “if you’re not gay, don’t pretend to be” kinda thing. So I’ve always thought what the Bible says is wrong is to not accept your sexuality & try to change it.
- I don't think the bible says "don't be gay", I think it says something like "thou shalt not lay with a man as with a woman - that is an abomination".
  
  That just means not to have PIV sex. No biggy - gay men have a tendency to avoid that.
  
  I grew up an Orthodox Jew (I’m not as an adult). The way I learned it was that existing as a gay person, as in, that’s simply who you are, isn’t problematic. The issue is the act of gay sex itself, which is what the verse in the Torah refers to.
  That is to say, your understanding is correct.
  Disclaimer: I don’t care about it myself. Just explaining it how I was taught in Orthodox schools.
  
  Probably says something else too, I’ve been seeing interpretations based on the Hebrew texts, and, unsurprisingly, the versions people know tend to get it wrong & just use the text to reinforce preexisting beliefs.
you say that until you see their Tumblr posts, then you would've lost the ancient rabbis
- Enjoy your position of privilege that this stuff doesn't threaten your existence :)
- Not sure why the cultural differences between us and 'ancient' peoples is worldnews

86 comments