Good comeback

"name five of their songs" questions person A's (the one wearing the band t-shirt) knowledge of the band.

"name five women who trust you" questions person B's (the one who asked the 1st question) relationships with women in their life.

therefore "name five women who trust you" is much more loaded than "name five of their songs", making it a response that is, perhaps, too rude and unnecessary. although, assuming person B asked person A to name the songs unprompted (this is probably what usually happens), this could be an appropriate counter-question as sometimes a ruder response is necessary when dealing with annoying people.

Its always fucking unprompted
I had it happen once with Eluveitie. Fuck me for not remembering song names in ancient Gaulish I guess.

ITT the guy in the meme gatekeeps women's day-to-day experience with men

My sister was wearing a Harry Potter shirt and, in a grocery store, got confronted by some random girl that got super excited about it, and she showed my sister her tattoo of the Deathly Hallows. My sister had no idea what it was cause she never read the books and didn't finish the movies, but she enjoys the shirt cause our mom loves the Harry Potter universe. The girl got all sorts of upset and threw some judgy looks at her. My sister doesn't wear the shirt anymore.

Post just reminded me of that story, not trying to make a point or anything, just want to join in on the discussion.

Inb4 anti-JK Rowling commentary, you'd be preaching to the choir.

This is why people should either left harmless stranger alone or ask politely before assuming something about said stranger.
- Idk, I'm fine with strangers engaging with others in public. We're missing a genuine sense of community. I do feel that with more of this type of engagement, people won't be so awkward when it goes in an unexpected route and maybe we'll develop more kindness for one another.
  I have been known to be too optimistic, though.

Well, people don't like posers or wearing a shirt just because of a trend. Those hardcore fans can be toxic. Never seen an iron maiden fan do that though.

Watching stolen valor videos on YouTube is fun to watch thou. Especially those who are truly committing it. People just wearing a camo jacket for style or even pants are a bit overboard.

Reminds me of a scene from the Deer Hunter.

This site is a good reference point to see if I'm still a normal person. If I find myself agreeing too much with the takes and memes here then that means that I've become out of touch and I need to go outside and touch grass for awhile. So far so good.

What site? Lemmy in general or this community?
Which takes? In the OP or the comments?

Shower comeback energy

What a stupid response to a simple trivia quiz question. All you're doing is red-flagging yourself by telling him you have trust issues with men.

Nobody wants to answer these snobbish fan checks. Anybody asking these kinds of questions is red-flagging themselves for a shit personality.
What a stupid response to a simple meme about countering an extremely common form of misogyny. All you're doing is red-flagging yourself as a neckbearded dipshit who's never once bothered to listen to a woman talk, and probably tries to gatekeep women from his interests.
As a woman who exists, I have trust issues with men.
- As a married, straight, white man who has nieces and just in general knows some women, I have trust issues with men.

The comments on this post are examples why there are so few women on Lemmy lol.

I'm so disappointed by these comments. It is a very specific situation, why do they all take this so personally and think it is an attack against all men?
These comments remind me very much of the bear vs men "debate"
Yep
It's a vicious cycle.
- It's a big reaso why !WomensStuff@lazysoci.al is women only, the misogynistic types can't come in and troll us. And they HATE that

This sounds like a US thing.

People just don't go to other people saying some random shit where I'm from. Unless they're crazy, beggars, or tourists from the US. If you come to anorher person and don't start your sentence with "excuse me" or "sorry", you're getting ignored.

That’s because it’s a straw-man. Unless someone has serious social deficiencies, this doesn’t happen. The experience is 99% ignore, 0.9% might get “like your shirt”, or “cool band”, 0.1% some weirdo - who would have found something else anyway if it wasn’t your shirt.
- It’s a type of negging. I can guarantee you women wearing band shirts riding a subway, at a bar, etc, have been asked this kind of question with negative ulterior motives.
- Unless someone has serious social deficiencies
  social deficiencies like "being a raging misogynist to the point that literally anything a woman does is percieved as lying in some way?
  because those guys are everywhere, and they do shit like this all the time. in this very thread even.
It's not common but I have had this weird interaction once:
Stop at random convenience store for a drink, take drink to counter, cashier looks up, sees my Dave Matthews Band shirt, and while doing the transaction for my drink says:
"I know that band! I hate that band! Take your shit and get out!"
It was confusing as hell. Who the fuck hates the Dave Matthews Band? 🤷🏻‍♂️
- Personally, can’t stand them, but I support people listening to what they enjoy and the musical tastes of others shouldn’t dictate what anyone else enjoys. Music is art and no piece of art is universal.
  Satellite is a solid track, though.
- Maybe it was the people who had shit poured all over them by Dave Matthews Band.
- I also can't stand DMB his voice is obnoxious and all the songs sound the same. Obviously idgaf if you like them and it doesn't change how I feel about people just dont invite me to one of his shows.
- I do.
It doesn't happen in the US either. These posts are made up social media rage bait.
Both people in this made up conversation sounds like douches.
- I've seen it happen when I was in high school. It was usually a call out between friends and 90% of the time it was a led zeppelin shirt. Never seen it between two strangers on the street though

My job includes doing a lot of events on college campuses, so I see a lot of t-shirts for classic rock bands. I see a Dark Side of the Moon shirt at nearly every event. I'm a huge lifelong musician and music lover, so I often ask if they've listened to that album. If they have, we have a nice discussion about Pink Floyd. If not, I encourage them to give it a listen, because it is an album that has literally changed people's lives.

One girl told me she hadn't heard it, but her GRANDMOTHER told her it was the greatest album ever made. First of all: Grandmother? That hurt. Secondly, I told her grandma may be right, go listen to that album.

Recently, someone was wearing an Abby Road shirt, so I asked. They turned out to be a huge Beatles fan, and we had a nice conversation about it.

OTOH, one girl had on a Kiss shirt, so I asked her, and she didn't even know that Kiss was a band. She just liked the shirt.

Not everyone asking is looking to start an argument. Often we are just older music fans who are thrilled to see young people embracing the great rock music of the classic era, and want to talk to them about it. Engage those older music lovers, they may be able to tell you about other albums or artists you might like, or tell cool stories about shows they've been to. In my case, I worked for many years on the record biz, and have lots of stories of personal meetings and backstage experiences with truly legendary musicians. Young music lovers enjoy my stories, but if you responded with "name 5 women who trust you," I'd just write you off as a defensive, confrontational jerk, and ignore you. No fun stories for you.

The difference is you're asking a legitimate question, while the original post is a test.
This is lovely and wholesome, but you're not the type of person the post is about.
Edit: sorry I just realised my comment was kinda glib, so let me elaborate. You didn't specify but I assumed you approached those women with a friendly air, having a genuine desire to have a conversation with them as equals, and said something like "oh I love that album, have you listened to it?" Putting yourself in their shoes, compare that to a guy who approaches them aggressively, having a deep seated resentment for all women, and lashes out with "pretending you like that band huh? Prove it then, name 5 of their songs!"
- Thank you for a common sense response to my post. The problem is that ALL standard-issue white boomer men like me have become the enemy, and we all take the blame for assholes who would behave poorly no matter what their sex, age, race, etc.
  I have become somewhat activist about sweeping generalizations about people. It isn't right when MAGA Nazis disparage undocumented immigrants as a whole, and it isn't right when young people or women, etc. disparage older white men as a whole. Most of us are decent reasonable people, it's just that the jerks are far louder, so they get the attention.
honestly Ive listened to DSOTM, and while I like the songs, it doesnt feel life changing to me
The Wall however…
- The Wall is my favorite album of all time, but DSOTM is still special. I only remember seeing two album covers for the first time - Sgt Pepper, and DSOTM.
  Back in the 70s and 80s, I worked in record stores, and DSOTM sold multiple times, every single day, even though it had been out for years, and they had three subsequent albums. I knew people who played it every day, and had to buy a new copy every year. I knew plenty of people who came to love music and record collecting after they first heard DSOTM, and it became their favorite album. It changed lots of lives.
I think the German saying „Der Ton macht die Musik.“ fits very well here. There is a massive difference between you bringing it up as an conversation starter and an incel jerk using it as a challenge.
Funnily enough, in your eagerness to rewrite the post to fit your own assumptions, you ignored the premise of the comments and the actual issue, proving the point entirely.
Then you doubled down, just quality all around 💯👌
This is how to be a decent person. I’m glad there are people like you in the world.
And yes the grandmother comment would have definitely hurt… oof.

Beethoven shirt. "Name five songs", "sure, allegro, allegro vivace, scherzo, adagio, andante cantabile."

1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th symphonies.
- Beethoven only wrote 5 symphonies, the 3rd, the 5th, the 6th, the 7th and the 9th.
- Those are albums.

People who wear band shirts, does this actually happen?

Hey mostly men on Lemmy, does this even happen? No? Checkmate, women.
My friend was wearing a Ramones shirt and I asked her to name a single member of the band.
Nope. Every once in a long while someone will say "Nice shirt!".
I had a person in the grocery store run up to me and recite the first half of a verse to me hoping I'd respond. I said something like "what?" as they pointed to my shirt and repeated themself. I then appropriately finished the verse and smiled.
- You and I are very different people. I don't care if I had the bands entire discography memorized, there is no way I'm rewarding that behavior.
… no. Although 2ce when I wore death metal band t shirt while walking my dog a car started blasting one of their songs. At least I thought it was one of their songs…. I went to the show that time and saw them live and they were great so I wanted to support them by buying merch. I have a ton of shirts like that.

Name 5 cats who trust you.

So far I've only got 0.5/5 (my cat only half-trusts me... I tried to bathe my cat once and now everytime I have water nearby she does not trust me lol)

I once knew a girl who shaved her head bald. Her default response to "Does the carpet match the drapes?" was "That depends, is my head bleeding?"

How often is she asked that question though?
- You'd be sickened to your core if you heard the kind of vile shit women get asked on the regular. Im on a certain kink website and it's actually crazy seeing the sexual harassment on display.
- I was a doorman at a popular niteclub, she was out partying damn near every weekend for a while, I saw it happen twice in person.
  Drunk people arent all that witty and they are very predictable.
- Blonde and ginger women get asked plenty.
  I can easily see a shaved head elicit the same dubious approach.
  Any woman I've ever talked with has their fair share of weird, inappropriate crap thrown their way, this just par for the course.
- Isn't once enough ?
- Using my powers of induction: "mmm... often enough to need a default answer."

Suddenly realizing how many women I knew have come out as non-binary "Uhhh, uhhh... Well my wife? Wait, no, um, my friend? No, they're not- uh,"

Nice notion, but won't work.
Those people will happily list every women they know, however distant.
Many men don't even have a concept for this kind of "trust".

Just what kind of trust you need? Many trust me, they also think I'm a moron and look down on me.
Who gives you the right to challenge if someone is truly "trusted" or not? You don't know the person or the people they are citing, so you are just convicting men without any evidence at all.
- Not OP, but men tell us themselves. They tell us when we're in a relationship and they say that no one else ever understood them like we do. They tell us when we see them talk about their loneliness across the internet. To deny it is to deny the pain that so many men admit for themselves, albeit only when in private or anonymous spaces.
  A lot of men don't have this deep trust in their lives, and I say this not out of malice but out of sympathy and concern. You deserve to know the kind of trust referenced here.
- Ohh! How nice! I was wondering why if I would ever have to block someone on here!

Good as a general snarky comeback, but tbh doesn't seem appropriate unless the guy is wearing a shirt that says women trust him.

"Name five women who want to talk to you. Oh wait, I'm not one of them."

Just checking, if woman asked the exact same question would that be ok? Gatekeeping happens on both sides, not sure how this a male only issue.

Condescension and gatekeeping is never okay. If a woman did this to a man, I would defend the man. So it's not a double standard.
It's just that women frequently deal with this when they partake in male-centric hobbies. When this happens, there's often some element of misogyny at play. So it's okay for us to point out that specific situation and say it's frustrating, and doing so doesn't mean we're saying this has never happened to men, nor that it's morally virtuous for women in subcultures to condescend to men.
Also, this culture war thing is so exhausting. Everyone reads between lines and assumes the worst in everyone.
You mean if a woman insinuated you weren't a real fan by asking you to prove you know more than 5 tracks? Sure, man. That'd be real bad.
Hey, does anyone remember when Morgan Webb was being harassed online for being a fake gamer girl while Adam Sessler wasn't?
- I meant if a woman asked this same woman the exact same question, would it be ok? Or is it a problem ONLY because a man asked the question to a woman? I've had men and women both ask me patronzing gatekeeping questions, jackasses are not limited to one sex.
Yes! Who can even name five people they trust!?
I mean, if I'm wearing a band's shirt I'll probably know five of their songs so sure.
- On the other side of the spectrum I've owned and worn band clothes without even knowing they were band clothes. They were second hand and I liked the logos.
Not really, but the issue is about how toxic misogynistic males frequently do this, not the fact that the string of events that have occurred
It’s just way way way way worse for women that’s all.

I live in fear of this type of person, especially as someone who listens to metal which tends to be male-dominated. I'm an album person and I'm not always checking the table of contents when I listen. There are bands I've been a fan of for over a decade that I don't have five songs memorized for. I love these bands and I don't think I'm fake for liking them or wearing a shirt.

My brain just doesn't respond well to those type of questions anyway. Most brains don't, which is why those 'gotcha' street interview videos are so common. Most of those people aren't idiots, they're just panicking.
"Name 5 nations" "..uhhhhh, Antarctica, Canada, Texas, London, Taiwan"
"Oof, two out of five, no money for you, just public shame."
- My daughter taught me a good response for when people ask random questions that are intended to be passive aggressive, or just terrible comments from a nasty person in general. You just respond "YUR cool" and nothing else. It actually stops most people in their tracks because they don't know how to respond.
Just remember you don't have to prove yourself to anyone. People that gate-keep like this aren't worth your time anyways.
Just tell them to fuck off, who cares about assholes
I (~40 year old dude) had a similar thought when I saw this post. I like spaceslug a lot (and I'm wearing one of their tshirts right now!) but I don't really know individual songs. Lemanis is a great album and Memorial has some good tracks, but names? Uhhh
"Oh you are a Valkyrie fan? Name every Valkyrie in existance" meme.jpg
- Um, Mist 😅

Is that comeback considered "good"? Why? It doesn't even make any sense.

The sort of men who come out with phrases like that are (almost universally) arseholes. Having a default response, that can be rolled out quickly, and hit at emotional sore spots is useful.
As for why it works, if they are willing to come out with that line, then either a massively misogynistic, or badly socially stunted and rude. Both will drive women away aggressively (and likely a lot of male friends).
- How often does that line happen? I can definitely see "What's your favorite song/album?", that's just making conversation based on a common interest. And it can be kinda disappointing if you thought you were gonna get to talk about a band you like, but the person just liked the design and hasn't even heard them.
  But "Name 5 songs"? I thought that just happened in memes.
Because the kind of guy that asks random people to prove their fandom probably does not have many close friends.
- Even more so the point is that they’re a creep.
  Men policing women’s clothing is creepy, or talking down to other people as gatekeepers … also creepy.
  The response is pointing out they’re a creep.
  I hope my fellow men can understand.
Him asking her to name 5 songs is nasty, it shows he's a bully whose looking to embarrass her. That indicates women are less likely to trust him
- Still, you can expect a comeback to not be a complete offtop.
  Yes, the first phrase has a goal of embarrassing the owner of the t-shirt, but comeback in the style of "yo momma is so fat that..." is embarrassing to the giver, not to the receiver.
  Even "Can YOU name 5 songs?" would be much-much better.
Because it's an asshole thing to say. Any comeback will be good.
Agree. I'm thinking "why do you even care whether I'm a big fan or not?", or "I don't need to prove anything to you", would work better
- That still leaves you as the subject. The meme response puts the focus on the asshole.
I wouldn't engage with someone who did that. Win!

I've listened to Vital Remains' Let Us Pray once every couple weeks for the past 15 years and can't name one song off of the album. I can play the guitar parts along to it, half the time I can't even remember the name of the band. This is not vital info to my brain.

I would suggest telling them to go fuck themselves and moving on.

There are very few bands I could name five songs from, even though I really like music.

My mom

my cat

my cousin

The lady that delivers parts to our shop

my aunt

crosses arms

"I have not made any attempt to memorize song names"

"I don't want to share names of family and friends"

If I was asked to give names, I would strongly consider listing names from Mambo No. 5. While humming the tune to remember the names.

The women I know who are into metal are way more into the band than almost any straight men I know.

Bold of you to assume I associate with 5 people!

Who even asks that? Or Am I wooshing myself?

I have seen it when its a young kid wearing like a VanHalen shirt, and the old guys assumption is they have never listened to that band ever.
I think it was a trend going around in tiktok
Shhh! Witches, patriarchy, and the characters in this story... None of this is real 🤫

Gatekeeping: Half a star

First, name 5 men who trust you.

On impulse my subconscious cognitive stack attempted to run this check on myself before I even finished reading it and it was kind of a pleasant surprise to find myself spoiled for choice o_o

(if i had to narrow it down just five: 1. my best friend who i met through a niche fandom in 2012, 2. the friend i've had the longest since we were in middle school in the late '90s, 3. my partner, 4. the person who owns the discord server i consider my home, and 5. someone i used to date but we've kinda been DM penpals for years because of overlapping interests and i looove the fiction she writes online )

glad i'm not the kind of dipshit who would try to gatekeep someone for their interests, although i fear i might run afoul of it by accident because i'll see someone wearing a Dream Theater shirt and be SO excited that they're into a band I used to be crazy about back in the day that I blurt out dumb superlative questions in a hamfisted attempt to socialize x_x;

OH WOW WHATS YOUR FAVORITE SONG gosh i havent listened to them in way too long i used to listen to six degrees of inner turbulence on like a daily basis and they'll mistake my eagerness for aggression ;~;

i fucking hate being amab...

There's a huge difference between "name five" and "what's your favourite" in my opinion. And if they can't name even one (I pinch band tees off my girlfriends to wear all the time) then you can use that as an excuse to be like "you should really check them out, can I show you my fav?" then pull out your phone and play it for them! :)
- Yeah, there's a chasm between them.
  "Name five" -> "I bet you can't"
  "What's your favorite?" -> "I sincerely want to know"
Woah woah woah friend, it’s okay.
I’m preeeetty sure most reasonable people will catch on to the eagerness in your tone, and going over-niche infodump is a world of difference from a short, accusatory line.
Awkward sincerity isn’t a sin.
I find niche interest infodumps cute, not aggressive. Regardless of whether I have any interest in the niche or not.
- Oh absolutely 💜 if they're passionate about a subject I can listen to someone talk about practically Anything! Enthusiasm is infectious in the best possible ways... I wish I had more opportunities to encourage people to let loose about the stuff they love.

They are the one wearing a band T-shirt, advertising that they are fan. They opened themselves up to a conversation about it, and bringing up the person's relationship experience is 100% irrelevant.

Asking someone to name 5 women who trust them, and then challenging those choices as wrong, when the subject and the people they are naming are totally unknown, isn't winning the argument.

This is why women get accused of being unfair debaters.

They opened themselves up to a conversation about it,
If the question to "name 5 songs" is an attempt at opening up a conversation, it's a questionable strategy. You're not making conversation, you're assigning someone a test. Forcing a set list provides plenty of opportunity for the answers to be scrutinized and possibly used as justification to doubt the woman's authenticity. It's a commonly used gate-keeping tactic that most, if not all women and AFAB have/had used against them at some point.
A friendly acknowledgement of a shared interest would work far better, like going, "Oh, I love that band! Did you go to their last concert?" Even, "What's your favorite song?" works, because the problem isn't asking a question, but the immediate assignment of work along with guaranteed judgement regardless of the answer.
Most people probably don't enjoy being subjected to pop quizzes, and this kind of question feels like being given a pop quiz with the sole reward for winning being "to be accepted by you." Even if one's intent is truly innocent, when someone's idea of "conversation" is "subject the other person to random tests," other people might avoid interacting with that person.
- Valid, which is why one of my responses said that how you ask is a big part of the issue. My question is just "Have you ever listened to that album?," and I always try to ask it in a friendly manner, not confrontational. at least 75% of the time, the answer is "No."
A conversation and challenging someone are two different things. They didn't open up a conversation, they challenged the person with the T-shirts interest. They deserve to be challenged back, especially in a way that calls attention to the fact that they are abbrasive, intolerable, or worse.
- My opening question is always: "Have you listened to that album?" You can take that as a challenge, or as an opening to a conversation. I suppose the tone used while asking is the most factor. I always ask it in a friendly manner.
This is why women get accused of being unfair debaters.
You don't have to be "fair" when some rando starts debating you out of nowhere, same way you don't have to do a proper duel when someone asks
Funny how I never have an issue of women being “unfair” to me yet you constantly do. I wonder what the difference between us is?
- Reading comprehension is required.
  I didn't say I have an issue with women being unfair to me. I said they often get accused of debating unfairly, and they do. Listen to a few stand-up comedians, and you'll hear plenty of jokes about how difficult it is to argue with women. Chris Rock has a famous monologue about women being impossible to argue with because they don't feel that their arguments have to make sense.
  Don't blame me personally for a widely held societal belief.
I have never heard of women being stereotyped as unfair debaters.
- So? I have.
Debate? What debate? I thought this was just a hypothetical situtation casually talking about bands, which turns into something condescending. That's not really a debate situation. Why must we treat it as a Socratic dialogue or a legal proceeding?
But that nonsequitur sure is a sweeping generalization about how you feel about about women debaters. Ironic considering you stated you don't like sweeping generalizations, real or imagined, in your other comment.
- Well, the discussion did move into whether the response to the guy's question was a fair one.
  The better response would have been, "I don't know, I don't think of them in terms of songs, I think of their albums. Of all of their albums, this is the one I like the best. It's got "XXX," it's my favorite song by them."
  That's an answer that would make him sound like the dickhead that he is, instead of making you sound like a savagely defensive female.
  Of course, it only works if you do know the album on your shirt, and you do know one song off of it. Otherwise, I'm kind of in the "don't wear T-shirts of bands you don't listen to" camp. It's on your chest for the entire world to see and JUDGE YOU FOR IT, at least pull it up on Spotify and give it a spin.
So she asked for it?
- Arguably by wearing something they don't understand. Yes
  Would you be ok with them wearing the southern flag cause it looks good?
I feel like when it comes to cultural things like bands the wearer should be at least aware and supporting of the band. Imagine if I wore a MAGA cap, because I thought it looked cool but didn’t know anything about it.
- MAGA is recent and morally negative, AC/DC is old and morally neutral.
  I can not imagine caring about someone not knowing the Alice in Chains on their shirt as much as the nazi on their hat.
- Totally agree. I recently saw a guy with a shirt that said "Don't wear T-shirts of bands you don't listen to."

I could name 5x that. I don't wear band shirts nor that level of pettyness and distrust tho