Microsoft: "My PC"

The main thing I'm learning from this thread is that a surprising number of people don't shut their machines down when they're done using them. Which is wild to me.
- A lot of modern windows laptop don't let you shut them down.
  They use something called Windows Hybrid Sleep and it should be illegal. Selecting shut down in windows will keep the machine in a state where it will turn on at random times to check for updates. Especially fun whrn in your backpack creating a furnace.
  Thankfully it can be disabled via AD policy.
  
  Shouldn't have to use fucking group policy just to stop your machine updating at inopportune times. Fucking Windows.
  
  Ah yeah I forgot about hybrid sleep as I turned if off years ago and forgot it existed. Such a nonsense feature.
  
  Ah yes, the greek hydra of IT. Disable one policy, two more shall take it's place.
  
  Or just disable the Fast Startup option
  
  I remember you have to press either Shift or Alt for the shutdown button to actually shut down the PC.
  
  You dont need to use group policy.
  Admin console: powercfg.exe /hibernate off
  Now its off. Hybrid sleep is just a faster Hibernate.
  
  is that not on by default for every windows installation?
- Why would you? Sleep uses so little power and the resume is instant.
  If it wasn’t for S0 standby being such a piece of shit I’d never shutdown my computer unless it was for an update or hardware maintenance.
  
  I mean since the advent of SSDs I've not found the boot times of computers to be all that slow and I typically quite like coming back to a clean desktop on a new day rather than having junk from yesterday being thrown at me.
  
  Just like the brain computers need off-time to calm their electrons and unflip their bits.
  /s but a lot of issues really are solved by a reboot
  
  Because a laptop waking from sleep while in a bag is a fire hazard.
  
  Have you seen how fast computers turn on these days (from complete shutdowns)? It's 2-3 seconds (if hibernation is completely off). Barely an inconvenience - specially not one worth risking the pc turning on by itself on random times.
- The only reason why my uptime is only a month is because I took my PC with me on a work trip which involved packing it.
- As someone who knows how to manage the power and update settings in Windows to prevent this from happening, I am learning that Linux users may not understand how to actually configure Windows to their liking. Which is wild to me.
- Sign in states for tokens expire when you power cycle. If you're in IT or moving between classes, not only would you have to wait for power down and power on each stop you make,you'd also need to sign into every tool you use that requires credentials. I work as a field tech for an MSP. If I had to shut down at the end of each stop and boot back up then I'd have to spend 20-30 minutes signing back into my RMM, ticket system, azure portal, knowledge base etc on top of the site specific stuff I'm already going to have to sign into for that stop. Sleep great. Just disable S0 sleep.
  
  That's ass. Your bosses should be moving away from that shitty software
- When I got my first (and only) PC, it was outright SUGGESTED to never power it down. By HP. So yeah I just sleep my computer, and yes I have to deal with the bullshit in the meme lol
  Always wondered why the fuck my PC is awake before I even touch it.
  
  Back in the day we did that because it too long to boot so we never shut it down.
  20 years later we have servers at home that we never shut down.
- No point. Sleep works great and live updates are flawless.
- me too. i see no reason not to shut it down, unless boot time takes way too long (you dont have an ssd), you use windows (always takes too long), or you have a bunch of apps open and don't want to lose the workflow.
  though i just have to shutdown anyway because my pc is right under a couple of roof leaks and it might rain while i'm sleeping or not at home
  
  honest question, because i use windows and i shut down every day. is 20 seconds really "too long" for a full boot up?
- To be fair I don't always use it like that but suspend is convenient if I have a continuous work that is scattered all around.
  
  what i'd day is "always turn off your computer when you're done using it", meaning you sleep it when you have work you don't want to lose.
- That's what sleep is for. Just lock Gnome and let the computer sleep in a sensible amount of time. Instant on when you need.

My Windows 10 computer eerily waking itself from sleep got me in the habit of shutting it down completely every night. I'd be lying in bed, turn over and open my eyes, and see the light of the screen reflecting off the wall. It was like something out of a shitty horror movie about computers taking over the world.
To this fucking day, even in Windows 11, it takes "Update and Shut Down" as a mere fucking suggestion. About half the time, it'll restart after the update and just sit there chilling at the login screen. Not a single fuck given.
Linux is a breath of fresh air by comparison. Though, if you choose to run Arch you need to stay on top of updates or else a day will come where you won't be able to update because you're now too far behind. It can be fixed manually, but it's still annoying and a little scary if you're not familiar with it.
- Imagine your oven or clothes iron turning itself on while you're not home. Why TF people just accept their computers doing this is beyond me. Either it's a boiling frog situation, or people simply don't remember the times us users had complete control over our devices and think things were always this way.
  As an 80s/90s kid, I can tell you they most definitely were not.
  
  It’s called Hardware (1990)
  
  I hate windows doing windows things but that's an oxymoron take because computers aren't known to cause fires, if there was an apparent danger around leaving PCs on unattended, then there would've been legal repercussion. This is just a mere annoyance to most.
- The software is arrogant and needs to know its place. It serves the user. It should obey.
- Windows wakes up from hibernate? How tf is that happening? Also how tf it knows when to update when its hibernated/sleeping?
  
  Better always keep a gun next to your bed if you use Windows.
  
  There is a thing called wake timers on Windows. There is also Wake-on-LAN but not sure if that's enabled on default or not.
  
  CPU interrupts. There are timer interrupts that can be used for this. In hibernate, only a tiny fraction of the CPU is changing the transistor states. A transistor only uses power when it changes state; i.e. "off" or Hibernate. Transistor state changes when you cycle the clock on a CPU. Anyways, set the register for the timer interrupt and signal the CPU for Hibernate. The timer circuit is still listening to the clock while the rest of the CPU stops listening to the clock. Each clock cycle you subtract one from the register. When the register reaches zero, the timer interrupt wakes the rest of the CPU. Just like moving your mouse or pressing the power button; they signal an interrupt which wakes the CPU.
  
  from what i understood it wakes up randomly to check for updates, then goes back to sleep. or maybe it just stays on? im not sure
- You can update arch from any point of time to the current, it just takes a bit of time. Just use arch archove and update by month or two.
- ACPI enabled BIOSes and UEFI support wake timers.
  Windows uses this feature to wake the PC all spooky like so you don't get to click the update button yourself.
  While Windows doesn't have an Arch wiki, the instructions for turning the automatic wake feature off are a web search away. You'll need another web search to disable automatic updates though.
- i didnt know arch did that. never happened to me, though i guess that's because i update it like once every month or every two months, sometimes every day (depends on how long i can forget about updates existing)
  
  The GPG keys that are used to sign packages expire and are rotated something like every six months to a year. If you don't get the new ones in an update before they start being used, pacman will refuse to update at all.
  It's easily fixable, but if you don't know that, it can be quite intimidating.

Did anyone else ever notice that Windows's enshittification really took off around the same time they renamed "My PC" to "This PC" ?
Always seemed like it was a subtle indicator they no longer considered it your personal computer but rather one they so graciously allow you to use once in a while.
- Sus timing, though it's certainly just branding.
  The whole "My-" prefix for "My Documents" and "My Computer" and all that is something that was around since the 90s, and really served to emphasise the "Personal" in "Personal Computer" at a time when PCs were coming into the home for the first time.
  Nowadays that branding is really unnecessary and feels pretty antiquated too, especially in an era where most stuff for most people is online, and the emphasis is more on connected seamless stuff rather than a cute little folder to put your things in.
- Our computer.
  
  Their computer. You're just a user.
- You should factor in that nowadays it is fairly normal for a single person to have multiple computers, so "My PC" is not specific enough anymore.

Linux users when their computer won't boot because they fucked up their grub config again: (Totally not me)
- Are you distro hopping? That's when my grub would fail on me on a monthly basis.
- Or just installed few months of missing updates, looking at you my broken Manjaro dual-boot
  
  Just don't use a rolling distro.
- A lot of systems use systemd boot. Also, why would you be modifying Grub?
  
  They're trolling and have no idea what the fuck they're talking about. I've literally not had a bootloader failure in a decade from multiple Linux OS installs.
  The only time I had an issue was when I was playing with a bleeding edge distro and it borked full disk encryption, but that was INTENTIONALLY bleeding edge and I knew the risks.

"My PC" was even replaced with "this PC" since Windows 11, which feels almost too symbolic...

I'm always so amused when people are like "Uhm, actually, when you shutdown your PC it's not turned off, it's sleeping so it ca.." - Bro, no. sudo poweroff. It's off. Completely off. In fact, it would be hella annoying and fucking useless to configure sleeping.
- Suspend on Linux just works as well. The PC will sleep until the user wakes it up.
  
  Depends on which suspend tho. iirc there's one system that's forcefully being discontinued by big corpo, while the replacement is still very buggy everywhere.

To be fair, Linux has not been especially awesome at suspended/hibernate/resume, historically.
- Yea, I like to suspend my machine, but rather than hit suspend and walk away I have to wait to find out what has prevented suspend from suspending. That and it trying to goto sleep when I don't want it to. Drives me nuts
- My linux PC used to be unable to hibernate/sleep at all, and my current laptop occasionally gets some kind of backlight burn-in from sleeping when the lid's closed
- Suspend / hibernate / resume is really a test of the quality of all your device drivers. That's always been a weakness in Linux, not because of Linux itself but because Windows is so dominant.

My ex had one of them RGB everything rainbow gamer PCs.
Windows would auto boot to update in the middle of the night and turn the whole apartment into a rave...
- damn, that sucks
  also because that's the only thing about that ex i know, the only conclusion i can make is that you stopped dating because of random middle of the night RGB raves
- Just flip the switch on the back of the power supply after shutting down the computer or turn off the UPS.
- I have a gaming machine with no crazy RGBs, but the video card has a loud fan when at maximum. Most of the time it isn't at maximum. When using the desktop it's nice and quiet. When gaming it depends on the game, but mostly it's not too loud. But. BUT! When it first turns on, the fans go to max for a second or two. I was woken up more than once by Windows deciding it needed to turn my PC on to install an update, and the fans screaming for a second as it booted.
  I eventually found a setting that disabled that behaviour, but Microsoft made it so incredibly hard. Now that that machine is almost 100% Linux I never have to worry about that.

I'm bottom even when I used windows because I turn it the hell off when I'm not using my computer.
- Yes. Same with my TV and everything.
- isn't the joke in the bottom that the pc and you are both sleeping tho

Windows does not wake up from "hibernation" to do "updates". What it really does is sleep walk during S0 sleep (aka Modern Standby) to check for updates, slowly draining your battery. Classic hibernation is not available while S0 sleep is supported by the BIOS.
Mac is also guilty of this.
- What it really does is sleep walk during S0 sleep (aka Modern Standby) to check for updates, slowly draining your battery
  More importantly, telling Windows to shut down doesn't really shut it down, it puts it to sleep.
  
  So just uncheck the Fast Startup option and it does not do that anymore.

this meme is especially true for students and the likes 😂 whenever you share a one-room flat with a laptop made by clueless techbros for clueless techbros, the increased fan whirring really shines.

Nope. My Linux Mint randomly wakes up from sleep mode all the time. It's just a bug. Tried to fix it, never found solution. I guess I am fine with it. Well. Not really. Help me if you can!!11!!
- My first guess world be unplug your mouse and keyboard and see if it still happens. Your mouse or keyboard could be sending phantom inputs sometimes. If it's a laptop maybe not though or you'd have to test it another way at least. But it's the first thing I'd do.
- Apparently you can see which devices can wake your PC with cat /proc/acpi/wakeup. S3 should be sleep and S4 hibernation. Though I have no idea which device is which.
  
  Lspci and lsusb will help you match up with the list
- Put chrome on it, that should fix it

fun story, i almost went crazy for troubleshooting why my desktop (mint cinnamon) often wouldn't autosuspend or even turn off the monitor.
after a good half a year it turned out to be three different issues. autosuspend and monitor were two separate issues in cinnamon that i found a workaround for, and i also found out from the log that something wakes it up every now and then. at first i thought my cats stomp on the keyboard, but they avoid touching it. what actually happens is that when my other cat hops off my chair, static electricity wakes the pc up...
- that is crazy what

Why is this true 😭

I had to spend an annoying amount of time finding all of the settings to make it so that my windows machine would never wake up on its own, spread out over an even longer period of time because some of them aren't easy to trigger on my own so it was a matter of trying something and then trying more things if I find it awake on its own again.
Even disabling the wake on mouse movement was a pain because it doesn't properly label mice and keyboards and doesn't have a global setting. I wanted to keep wake on keyboard but not have it wake if my mouse moved a nm because a butterfly flapped its wings too vigorously as it flew by the closed window.
After I installed Linux, I went to do the same thing there only to find it already had sensible defaults set.

🤭and sometimes, if you wake your linux things go to shit and all you see is black screen and white mouse on it
Sometimes super+ctrl+alt+F8 saves me and I can restart PC from TTY, and sometimes, there is only a flashing cursor. In second case, I have to take hard measures and forcefully manually restart it
(Yes nvidia card with latest proprietary driver and kde on wayland) -> everything latest meaning from endeavour/arch/aur repos.
- Not every Nvidia but always Nvidia.
  
  Maybe it is kinda a bias since nvidia is easy to blame and is existing in most PCs 🤔

Another day of learning about Linux from the comments under a meme.

Nvidia users having to shutdown anyway because the computer will hang when trying to put it to sleep:
- It didn't hang up for me on Linux; though I had to disable sleep anyways since after waking up it seemed like every frame had an error and was logging said error into a growing 500 GB syslog

Open terminal, run shutdown /s /t 0.
That should do a complete shutdown that windows can't wake itself up from.
- I just unplug my computer when I'm done with it. That way it doesn't update.
  It makes a cool popping sound as my speakers and screen flash off.
  
  Don't forget to degauss your monitor one in a while
- You could also hibernate and flip the power switch afterwards, if you're on a desktop.

Just shut it off when you arent using it like a normal person.
- unless you're gonna use it later, like in case you have a bunch of programs open that you'd need to reopen and open a bunch of project files
  edit: for some reason my train of thought went everywhere other than the rails at the start

Windows would always wake from hibernation/suspension by itself after 2 or 3 hours. Truly a feature, not a bug
- I love how they wake up in my backpack so they can overheat AND drain the battery at the same time.
  That's efficiency.
  
  Reach into your backpack and get 3rd degree burns.

My PC does this really annoying thing, whenever I tell it to Install and Shut Down the bloody thing restarts every time
- That's because the shutdown hardly exists anymore. When you choose shutdown now it just hibernates. Reboot is the only way to get the full refresh of a shutdown unless you're using CMD.
  
  So I dualboot and each time i shuts down, i get boot menu. Are you telling me that is not shutdown in windows?

I started down the Linux route over the weekend and put my computer in hibernation and couldn't figure out how to wake it up from its torpor without restarting. So I'm going with suspension for the time being
- Firstly, welcome :)
  Secondly, hibernation on Linux requires swap partition 2x size of the RAM. If you didn't set it big enough or did not set at all, hibernation wouldn't work. However if you set it correctly, there should be another reason to consider.
  If you are not sure, you can use this command on terminal to compare your RAM and swap sizes. free -m
  
  According to the FAQ I found, you mostly don't need double your RAM. Especially for systems with lots of memory, they suggest instead the swap should be the square root of the RAM if you don't hibernate. If you do it should be RAM + SQRT(RAM).
  I'm not sure where the square root part comes from, but I think the general idea is that if you're using more swap than that, you should just add RAM.
  I'm still trying to get hibernate working on Bazzite. I followed the instructions I found and got it to the point that "Hibernate" is showing up in the menu, and when I use that menu item it seems to be saving state, but on boot I can't get it to restore my previous session. I suspect it has to do with the Bazzite / Universal Blue bootc weirdness, but I haven't spent much time digging into it yet.
  
  I'm sure I'll understand those words eventually. I wasn't sure what the difference was, so just tried hibernation. But I haven't tried any swapping of partitions or partitioning at all, it was just a standard debian install that gave me the option, which I haven't touched since.
- When you say hibernation, do you mean essentially powered off?
  My understanding is that hibernation has always meant that the system is 100% off, but that when it next boots it can read from disk into RAM and then let you resume where you were before you shut down. I ask because "waking" a system in hibernate means turning it on, and it goes through the normal boot process. If it's still on in some way, that doesn't sound like hibernation to me. It sounds like "sleep" or "suspend" (ugh, but there are now annoying s
  <number>
  states that add confusion to all that.)

I like and I do use Linux as my main OS. No dual boot BS, just pure Linux
butttttttttttttt
getting hibernate working perfectly in Linux on new hardware is PITA. I'm just happy with suspend working well, let alone hibernation.
Modern standby is the absolute shit of an invention.
This is the ONLY reason I wish I have a Mac. Forget all the memes and jokes about Apple, their laptops suspend very well. IIRC, they also have a hibernation timer built in, so if your laptop automatically hibernates after X hrs. But I dont want to be stuck in their ecosystem, so yeh...
Linux devs are not that keen to make hibernate work well either. Remember systemd dev forcefully removed the "suspend then hibernate" feature? You can still find the thread on Github lol.
- this meme is really true for windows, sometimes my pc wakes up the second I put it to sleep. seems to be some random app I have open allowing it to wake up again. infuriating. With intel macs, they wasted a lot of battery asleep, but my silicon mac can sleep for weeks without losing hardly any battery. linux I still can't get sound to work properly.
- OpenSUSE hibernate works. Just have to add extention to show the hibernate button (in GNOME)
- I heard mac won't shutdown at all but only does sleep and someone mentioned any keypress will wake it from sleep so that you can't clean keyboard..
- Forget all the memes and jokes about Apple, their laptops suspend very well
  The advantage of Apple is that the number of possible hardware combinations is pretty small. With Windows / Linux it's nearly infinite.
  With a small number of possible hardware configurations, it's much easier to get sleep/suspend to work well because you can test every possible hardware combination and make sure it works.
  But yeah, their system is basically flawless.

Windows is too self-important. Daddy, chill.

Actually my LinuxPC also wakes up from sleep ramdomly. Damn you nvidia...

Accurate. Because mine won't turn on anymore after sleeping.

This is actually the thing that originally triggered me into wiping my windows OS and switching to Linux a couple years back. Unbelievable that I can put my machine into long-term low power mode and minutes later windows is like 'lol, did you mean to click update??'
Can't believe how much better Linux is for 0$.

sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade -y
That's how easy updating is on (Debian flavors)Linux.
- sudo nixos-rebuild switch --update
- On RHEL it's simply sudo dnf update -y

Ugh, the updates.....my work PC is Win 11, I got an email from IT last night telling me I had to install the latest update I had been putting off. This morning after I clocked out I started the update. I have 500 down and it took almost 2 hours to download and 3 hours later the installation is only at 53%. I'm just going to go to bed and hope it's done by the time I have to clock in tonight.
And my coworkers wonder why I prefer Linux.....

As sucky as modern Windows is, all you have to do to avoid this bullshit is to shut down the pc at night or whenever you're not using it. That being said, half the time Windows updates, it tries to sucker me into subbing for Microshart 365.
- My only windows is force upon me as my work laptop. I sadly actually work for Microsoft. I literally only use it to SSH to my virtual machine running redhat.
  Microsoft really enjoys forcing updates at the worst time when their employees are trying to work. Sometimes it literally just makes me stop working for that day. Their loss.
  
  Doing what, working on Azure? Also why not just run Linux locally?
- Not even that. Go into Task Scheduler and disable the "Update Orchestrator" task. Problem solved.
  
  Until the next update reenables it.
  Really the only OS that where hibernation and suspension works smooth enough for me has been MacOS so far. Windows wakes up the whole PC to do things. On Linux you get GPU related power state issues that cause weird things. On MacOS it has always "just worked" for me. Still not buying one though. Rather shut down my machine.

happy atomic distro noises
- Do you have hibernate working in an atomic distro? I'm still working on that.
  
  Yeh seems fine tbh. Genuinely didn’t do anything special. Literally just slapped Kinoite onto a surprisingly useful little asus laptop I snapped up a while ago for a hilarious deal.
  I mostly use it as a secondary computer near my bed stand when I remember I wanted to do some sort of thing on my system or homelab crap but it’s late and I don’t feel like getting out of bed. Crucial use case, to be honest.

My PC meaning "My" PC
- "My" in My PC means "Microsoft's". All the Windows PCs in this world are all their's.
  
  All your base are belong to us.

STOP TALKING ABOUR WINDOWS!! STOP TALKING ABOUT WINDOWS!!!!!! IM BORED
- oOooOooOo 🪟

This would have to be enabled on the Motherboard or something because Hibernate is essentially a shutdown with the RAM saved into the Hard Drive, unless they've changed that.
- Its called "modern standby" or something, and is the main option for suspending windows laptops I believe
  
  Most modern mainboards don't even support ACPI S3/S4 anymore. The ACPI spec is pretty badly written and most implementations were flaky in some way. So when ACPI S0ix (aka Modern Standby) came around the old states were essentially abandoned.
  Of course S0ix is less a hibernation and more kindly asking the OS to turn off the screen and consider using fewer resources.

What I really like about Linux (Mint) is the automation of updates. I had a similar feature enabled on Windows (10), but I still had to install most of it manually. With Linux (Mint) the automation works wonderfully and I have no stress. Another reason not to go back to Windows.

Wow, that being a thing sounds surreal Oo

Devils advocate time: Windows does this because users are stupid and will never update their PCs if they don't have to. I've met too many people who never update their tech. Operating systems and the software they run is far too complex to be 100% secure so we mitigate that by updates. They are a necessity. The vulnerability responsible for EternalBlue was patched and pushed with a windows update before the ransomware attack, how many users ignored it? Windows is so annoying with its updates because it has to be.
- I know I'm not awake because I read your first line as "Devils advocate time", as in "Devils argue in support of time itself. "
  I'll have to discuss this with the time-being.
- if you always shut it down, when it has an update it'll force you to update and shut down. but people don't like shutting down their pcs for some reason so yeah ur right

I agree with some comments here, hibernation/suspension has been tricky, I've always had minor bugs and like kinda major, screen.. lines? popping up and just not even working sometimes, welp. I suppose it's better knowing what's breaking than wrestling control between you and microsoft..
- Mine just doesn't suspend/hibernate at all. Probably some dependency not installed, but I'm not assed to find out which one
  
  Yeah I think it's going to show up in some log what exactly is causing that but I usually search what I'm supposed to do so.. do that if you have time I guess

Me with my computer in a different room

- It does that once for me
- Not a problem on Plasma.
  
  that's why they specified that gnome does that

My PC having hibernation off in windows and system power off in S5 from bios.

"My" "p" "c"

Turn the fucking PSU off, dipshits. Perfectly safe to do while hibernated, and you're now in complete control of when it powers on.
- Modern PCs don't truly hibernate, they sleep. If the tower loses power its considered a hard reset.
  If anything, Windows machines often have 'fast boot' enabled which saves certain things to state, so today's manual shutdown (without power loss) is closer to old school hibernation than today's 'sleep' is.
  You can shutdownyour PC each night, but depending on what you're working on it can disrupt workflow, so I understand why many people prefer to sleep instead.

Windows user who turned that shit on within an hour of installing the OS: