YSK in the U.S., you can buy produce directly from black farmers and they will ship it to you. It can cost less than your supermarket and will piss off people in power.
It's a bit sad that it's just the "black farmers". If possible, getting your stuff from a local market or even a farmer is always a good thing, no matter if it's a black or white farmer. I have that here in austria where I get most of my meat and cheese directly from the farmer and it's not just insanely tasty but also cheaper than from the grocery store.
Strong communities thrive together.
To everybody saying "reverse racism" or whatever your wording is to imply that buying specifically from black people is problematic, why? Do you think that you would have a hard time finding a white run CSA to buy? This is just a resource for people interested in supporting the black community and frankly I see any form of opposition to it as pretty blatant racism itself. I'll return from a Google search with what I find for other race specified CSA indexes in a bit.
I'm back,
https://www.queerfarmernetwork.org/
Here's an LGBTQ farm share directory. Is it reverse bigotry to purchase from them? I had to play with search terms a bit but a combination of CSA, farm share, agriculture share, and your chosen identifier should produce you results.
I am genuinely looking for an answer because I'm fucking baffled by this thread.
Some sort of brigading going on here, lots of comments with almost identical wording.
buying specifically from black people is problematic, why?
The problem isn't that buying from black people is a problem, the problem is that it's trying to be a selling argument, and that's just stupid. Are the vegetables of a black farmer better than of a white farmer? Do queer farmers make better cheese than straight farmers? I somehow doubt it. In the end, it's a matter of skill and you can have that regardless of your sexuality or skin color.
I'm seriously wondering how you ever expect something like "inclusion" to happen when you're the ones that keep treating the groups you're trying to include differently.
To flip this argument... Are the vegetables from a black farmer worse than a white farmer? Do queer farmers make worse cheese than a straight farmer? I somehow doubt it. Therefore, if output is equal, maybe it's time to spread the love to these black and queer farmers.
You say, "in the end, it's a matter of skill and you can have that regardless of your sexuality or skin color"... and that sounds great, on it's face, but using that as your argument now, when, statistically, it's shown over and over again that skill is rarely the factor that matters, is disingenuous. When we, as a society, can get to a point where we can regularly show that, statistically, race and sexuality (or any other reason humanity chooses to use to make "others" out of our fellows) truly do not effect ones prosperity, then, and only then, would your statement hold any meaning.
Why do they have to be black? America is bizarrely obsessed with race, I've never seen anything like it both in person and on the internet.
Because they still get shut out of opportunities based solely on their skin color, names, and application photos. So they work together to create their own opportunities and are rightfully proud of that. America can stop worrying about race when we finally end racism.
I would prefer knowing my money is going to people who have been systematically disadvantaged for this nation's entire history.
I suppose your post could imply other minorities could be included but the way I read your comment gives off big WLM energy.
Edit: spelling
Yeah and I understand your thought process. However the entire point is to skip large corporations and buy food from local farmers. Again, why do they have to be black? Coming from a country not obsessed with race, the very mention of race prior to a product or service, seems strange and segregating in itself.
Race should just be taken out of it, support your farmers. That is my point.
And fuck off with the white lives matter shit. I would say the same shit to white farmers, Latino farmers etc. Race+service = bizarre.
NorthEast Florida has: https://www.melanatedgrowersinc.com/
Nobody alive has lived through this nation’s entire history
Dude this is discrimination also. It's like why do I have to pay for things that my gparents have done? This brings me to other questions such as how long do you will be "systematically disadvantaged"? I have seen those cases with my eyes: Afro has their college fees paid and they got paid for studying. he/her reproved. Do state retired the help? NO. They just had a talk with he/her and keep with aid. Meanwhile my mixed friend had to put gmother home as warrant to get a loan in order to pay the stupid college. I got enough of it.
It's because America is obsessed with race, and has systematically attempted to demolish black economic power from the foundation of the society, that people may choose to shop this way.
Sure, it can seem on the surface like wanting to support people of a particular race is in itself a kind of racism, or at least a situation that emphasizes unfair distinctions.
Unfortunately, race does still matter in America, even if we personally disagree with it or want to ignore it. The health and economic research data make it very clear that people of color in America, especially black people, experience harder lives in almost every category. This is due to both recurring experiences of present-day prejudice and discrimination, as well the inter-generational impacts of wealth inequality and psychological trauma.
You might already know about this, but redlining is one example of the way that patterns of discrimination can creates a systemic effect, which, in turn, can impact the physical and financial effects on a family across time. These kinds of systemic effects can then make it harder for current generations of these families to recover and live safe lives today though, we personally might celebrate that the policy doesn't exist anymore, and even though we personally might say that we don't support people acting like that anymore.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining
No one really has to do anything, but some people might choose to support groups of people or organizations who they think might have experienced similar kinds of hardships in their families, and might be glad to have a way to try to do something different with their money than give it to another multinational corporation every time.
I still love how everyone acts like America is the only racist country on the planet.
We wanted to pretend it was ending ourselves until 2016.
Can't say I've ever seen people do that
TIL posting/having conversations about a characteristic of one country implies that you believe that no other countries have that same characteristic.
While I'm sure the fact that the dominance of US news and culture on the internet is probably really frustrating for non-Americans, it's pretty natural for Americans (or anyone, really) to talk about our own country and experiences... especially while having to grapple with how things have been escalating here. You're certainly free to share your own experiences.
This is like, 50% the value of pissing off people in power.
the democrats have built their entire brand around performative racial justice where everything they do is designed to appeal to different groups. Its super toxic and while I am vehemently anti-racist this tokenization of policy is counter productive and the reason why a lot of people reject the democrats as "racist"
Bro, the US wins world champions in racism. There are ethno-nationalists in India that think Americans take it too far.
It's also important to note that POC, black people or melenated people (take your pick - i.e Pakistani and some Indians are PoC) are not exempt from being racist.
In fact, if you suffer racism there's a chance you'll then turn racist, because it triggers pack instinct, paranoia, group think - etc. Humans gonna hume. "You're claiming reverse racism" - bitch, did I stutter? Racism is racism is racism is racism.
That being said, zoning laws are still CRT based and some neighbourhoods in the US only get the most basic super markets - if even that.
"All I see is church, church, liquor store" - Black Milk.
If black people need access to raw produce in areas they can't get access to it, then I think it's completely acceptable. Sad, but acceptable.
I could also see a bunch of Karens buying out the stock so that they can brag that they eat "black produce", effective depriving black children of proper produce.
To err is human, and also be awful is human, and also racism... is human, and also (say it with me now):
Because uh... Orange man hates black people or something...
When people were hunter-gatherers and the world's population was about 100,000 humans in total?
I rather not give people money by merit of the colour of their skin, though. Fuck me, right?
The fact that it's cheaper for you and they get paid more than the middle man would pay should be enough for you.
Yeah, that's not what's happening.
But keep playing the victim.
No one said fuck you lol
Finding a farm close where you want is made unnecessarily difficult by the site’s interface. The grouping of states in regions is a hindrance and once you get to your state, the farms can’t be sorted other than by their name, so you have to look through every single one of them to find the farms close to you.
Great idea, terrible execution.
Cmd-F or Ctrl-F to search for cities. It's imperfect, but I found seven hits for my city instantly. I could search neighboring cities and towns the same way.
To add to this comment, it's not hard to find any of this information. "States grouped into areas" scroll to find your state, or again ctrl+f. "Hard to find cities" thankfully living in my area and being somewhat familiar with said area I can scroll down the list and find farmers in my general area. Short of putting in my address and searching for 'closest to' which I hate anyway, this isn't as bad an interface as op suggests.
That assumes you know all the place names of the region where you’re at. Someone that moved recently and/or lives in a tristate area (all of which are in different state regions in my case according to that map) is just faced with a very hostile design.
at least you have something my state doesn't even have anything lmao, it goes to a boilerplate page that gives little info
My state (big ag state) has a whopping 3 and 2 of those are hemp. The one that isn’t just hemp doesn’t have an area listed, just the state.
I mean I’m glad there are any.. but yeah, not a super great resource for some areas lol
This is great. Is there something similar for finding local farms regardless of race?
You could try researching CSAs in your area. There are a few near me that sell farm shares with weekly pickup of seasonal veggies during harvest season. I'm in northern California, and our rate is under $20 per week after we split it with another couple. We usually receive more veggies than we would buy during a weekly grocery store trip, plus our farm let's everyone pick fresh bouquets each pickup as a nice bonus.
Farm co-ops I think focus on local farms.
Depending on your location, try heading to your local "ethnic" neighborhood produce shops and price check those.
"Can" cost less is doing a lot of work there. I would guess it would mildly annoy people in power, but TBH this isn't a way to save money. If it really was, it would be common practice already.
There are lots of people who frequent local / smaller farms for things like access to organic foods / rarer crops / community support, but I've never known it to be cheaper than the industrial produce one can get at your nearest supermarket. Supermarkets clobbered local guys for a reason and pricing was a huge part of that.
Can't speak to the cost, just found my local place and their FB link is offline.
a way to save money. If it really was, it would be common practice already.
I cannot overstate how dumb Americans are about shopping. The local Publix (expensive) just put the Winn Dixie (medium prices) out of business, because the Publix is newer and prettier.
Meanwhile, there are 8 other groceries that are cheaper than either. Even the Aldi isn't busy.
Been in a few big box stores lately, prices stunned me. "People pay for this shit?!" Dude on here posted his fish tank purchase. Spent loads buying: little rocks, sticks, big rocks. I just decorated a terrarium for nearly free.
I buy almost nothing new, hell, I find a lot of my stuff. We had to get a new washer and fridge last year, paid $400 for both off FB Marketplace, nicest I've ever had in life, minimum $2,200 at the hardware store. Not going to listen to Americans whine about high prices when they're complicit.
Apologies, you triggered my Rant Card.
As a fellow American, I can simplify this (Americanize it) even further.
I cannot overstate how dumb Americans are
about shopping.
Apologies, I'm just pissed off in general about my country, as I'm sure you are too.
American here. I love finding a good deal. My ex-wife, however, was put-off about buying used, she was more worried about how others saw her than actually saving money.
I would guess it would mildly annoy people in power, but TBH this isn't a way to save money. If it really was, it would be common practice already.
Bidets are a cheaper, well known, better way to clean your asshole after taking a shit, yet the common practice of Americans is still to choose to smear their own shit around their asshole with dry disposable paper cloths.
The flaw in your argument is that you think people, Americans at that, wouldn't ignorantly continue to pay more for the convenience of not having to think where to buy their produce, because they can get it from the local Walmart 15 minutes away, instead of saving $20+ and driving 2 more minutes.
Americans are notoriously lazy and stupid, as evidenced this past November.
Bidets aren’t common in a whole lot of countries. Heck there are probably more countries where a bidet is uncommon than common.
The crab speaks a deep truth.
I'd pay more just to cut out corps.
My buddy's sister is a cheese monger. 10/10
My guess is it costs a lot more to ship small parcels of food rather than to transport food in bulk to one big store where everyone shops for it.
It would cost less for them to ship in bulk. It costs even less for them to charge you shipping and it's low enough for you that it's still cheaper than the profit cut of the distributor and grocery store.
In Taiwan, we had "day markets" where local farmers and fishers sell produce directly to you from the previous day's harvest. Every city has at least a few dozen day markets as well. It really serves the community and not big corps.
Some veggies still have live bugs(ladybugs) on it. That's how fresh it is.
It also cost 1/4 the cost in a corporate grocery store.
We (the US) have farmers markets in a lot of places. They can have very specific times that I always forget about. Around here in the northern climate, the farmer markets stop during the winter or move indoors and shift to selling more jarred and canned goods. My neighborhood has a coop, but it's more expensive than the grocery store and with a worse selection. We have options here, but they require more thoughtfulness.
That was a culture shock for me when I moved to the US. I knew that back in the day, in rural areas of my country, the markets only opened once a week. I was shocked to find that happen in urban/suburban areas in the US. Back home I could just go to the closest market any day. Morning news would have a report comparing prices in different markets across the city, so you could pick the one that has the best price for what you need that day.
I've gone to farmer's markets and although the stuff is good, some of it is pricey. There are stuff like lettuce and stuff that are cheaper but most of stuff like berries and fruits are more expensive.
Lots of deadlinks and farming alliances with mission statements.
Not a lot of links to buy food from farmers.
Yeah, this isn't being maintained. All the ones near me are dead websites.
My local link was dead but easy enough to find on FB. I'm going to drop by when I'm in town, see what they got.
Just Google "CSA your city>"
I would really like an Imperfect Foods replacement. Originally, IF was scratch and dent ugly veggies on discount with some consignment items. Post covid, prices crept up and then you had to pick and choose to get a deal, but you could still get a good box for under $40 every 2 wks that also included things like farro and yogurt. Misfit Marketplace bought them out and it took on a Whole Foods by mail vibe. Double to triple the regular grocery store prices. It would be $80+/week for the same box content which is galling. And it’s not the groceries, it’s MM. Who is paying $3 for 1 cucumber? $4 for 2 apples? $8 for a single pound of grapes or a pint of blueberries?
New potential produce sources are most welcome.
I had to drop Imperfect Food as well from the same problems. It was just more expensive than I needed. I haven't found a replacement yet unfortunately. We are now just buying food as needed. I have been interested in a CSA but haven't done it yet
The unbagged produce was fresher than grocery store and didn’t rot on the shelf in 3 days like post COVID produce from the grocery store tends to do.
So this post has potential.
Sadly and unsurprisingly, nothing near me. On the bright side, we do have a farmer's market so I'll just continue to patron that and say that if you have one near you, definitely check them out!
UK here but in my experience farmers markets cost vastly more. Shame because if a farmer just asked for cash and I can fill a sack of potatoes myself for less cost than a supermarket I would go for it. I don't need a fancy hipster shop front.
So every "farm" in my region is actually a community plot you can rent space in or a non profit outreach...no farms to purchase from.
Well, only 2 within reasonable distance. One only sells microgreen kits. The other appears to be a supplier for restaurants, etc.
I zipped them an email to ask about private sales. But, definitely nothing on their website about sales and shipping to the public.
Thank you! I did not know that. Last news that I heard about black farmers was about then getting screwed by massive ag conglomerates.
Region 5; Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin. Why are Ohio and Wisconsin grouped with the same link?
I imagine for the same reason Iowa and Nebraska are on the same page. https://blackfarmersindex.com/reg-7-iowa-and-nebraska
Wisconsin and Nebraska have such a small list that they'd be a waste of a page, I guess.
I kind of figured that was the reason, but seems like such a weak reason.
Thanks so much for this! I don't mind scrolling and clicking either.
+1 for this, it isn't that hard to do a little scrolling and if you really need it, use in-page searching and choose a city or town within your state.
Im pretty happy to get an locally grown products. Im lucky though as we have lots of farmers markets and its not hard to sign up for a monthly box.
Here in Germany we have similar projects, but it seems the producers/farmers often have absolutely no idea how to anticipate or meet the demand of their customers.
Like, I'm very aware that farming is a seasonal business, you can't really grow much salad during the German winter without a greenhouse. Perfectly fine. What is not fine is dumping basically your entire salad harvest for that season in a 4 week window onto paying customers.
You'll get 8 salad heads per week for a month or two, almost inevitably throwing or giving most of it away, and then you'll get 5 kilos of some roots for the next 3 months.
Monthly box subscriptions have always been that though. You're getting whatever they can't shift.
It sorta works this way here. They try their best but there will be a lot of kale. They have this thing were you have some ability to substitute as well
How is this not racist? If there were a service where you could choose to buy directly from white farmers peoples would lose their minds
Because, on average, black people are more economically disadvantaged than white people.
Choosing to explicitly buy from black farmers will, on average, tend to support those with the least financial means out of the general population of farmers, whereas choosing to explicitly buy from white farmers will, on average, tend to support those who are already more financially advantaged.
One side is directly choosing to help those most likely to be economically disadvantaged, the other would be explicitly ignoring those with the least means in order to help those who already have the most, thus the situations are not quite comparable.
I personally would prefer an index that directly assessed farmers based on overall wealth to determine who you should buy from, but because that's extraordinarily difficult to constantly update & maintain, verify, etc, it can just be easier to divide among racial lines since that still tends to produce a grouping that is relatively similar.
If the concern is economic disadvantages, shouldn’t the selectivity be based on income and net worth instead of skin color? Maybe selling products from poor and independent farmers. A portion of every race is economically disadvantaged.
Edit: I really appreciate your response. I think you described the issue really well.
There is a service to buy directly from white farmers. There's a bunch of them, including just going to the grocery store.
Because on their eyes black people can't be racist. They haven't seen the great example of Israel.
This is a remedial question, but that doesn't make it a bad question. It is a hard problem to solve, and calling an advantage based on race somehow not racist does sound paradoxical at first glance. It's important to be able to entertain the explanation without outright assuming you're being attacked by a bunch of obtuse racists.
Hopefully we agree that:
Let's pretend the second bullet point has been solved, that systemic racism is over and done, and we've established a perfectly equal union. Even if that's the case, we are left with the first bullet point as an ongoing problem. The challenge is now, how do you undo the very apparent damage that our history of racism caused, without specifically giving advantages to that group based on their race? And the short answer to a very complex question is: you can't.
So the US government instituted "Affirmative Action" the goal of which was to deliberately give a targeted advantage to people who have had a history of targeted disadvantages in this country. This catches you up to roughly the 1960s.
But in the last 40 years or so, we continue to see lower class areas of the US disproportionately filled with black americans, and we also see widening wealth inequality affecting virtually everyone. So naturally we also see an increase of non-black people asking the same question as you: "I'm having a hard time too, why are they getting an advantage based on their race? That's racism!"
The solution was to tax the rich, reduce wealth inequality, and continue to normalize disproportionate demographics. Instead, the wealthy used populism to hijack the republican party, and convince white americans that the minorities recieving these benefits were their enemy. And after 40ish years of pushing this narrative, they succeeded.
With the republican takeover of the federal govt, we can be virtually assured that any ongoing attempts to normalize these unfair demographics will be abandoned, at least at the federal level.
But it's still a problem, just now one for the people and the states to solve. If you want to support black-owned farmers in an attempt to help pull historically disadvantaged groups out of poverty, you can. If not, that's fine, just at least please vote for legislation that intends to reduce wealth inequality. (Note that history has exactly two ways of reducing wealth inequality: high taxes on the rich, or war. The question isn't whether wealth will get redistributed, it's how).
Tl; dr Yeah, it's an advantage based on race to solve a problem caused by a history of disadvantages based on race.
Lol. Lmao.
Well why do you think it is? Genuinely curious
Because racism is the discrimination of someone based on their ethnicity. If you are choosing one person over another due solely to their ethnicity, isn’t that discrimination? Shouldn’t people be judged not by the color of their skin? Explicitly advertising that you are selective solely based on race is racism.
I don't think this reads as what it was probably intended initially...
Will it? What will eventually happen if this gains any sort of popularity is that those people you think it will piss off will simply set up their own "grass roots" alternative the directly competes with them by gaslighting them about their "horrible practices they don't want you to know", along with funding "white farmers against bullshit affirmative action racist against whites" types of movements as the cherry on top.
Just don't buy meat directly - especially if you are hungry for bat and live in China.
Timely!
C.S.A
So no asian farms, no spanish farms, no middle eastern farms?
Why just black farms? Doesn't this lend itself to the trope of black people being farmhands?
Black farmers in the US have a particular history, what with chattel slavery and independent black farmers in particular being targeted for hostile takeovers and anti-competitive behavior from racists running big AG conglomerates in ways that other ethnic and cultural groups in the US have not faced.
We must stay divided or we might notice that we’re losing the class war.
This is the thing that I literally do not understand. Self-segregation is the stupidest shit.
A coalition of independent farmers or farmers with a specific agenda is much better than dividing shit by race. Race is the least meaningful way to divide people.
My wife is black, but she's not stereotypical American black. If she owned a farm she could be on this list... and she has zero roots in the historical american bullshit. She's literally an immigrant who pulls six figures in the corporate world. Most of the people of her cultural background are trump supporters for some stupid fucking reason (they think trump will only deport the "other" POCs, not their own, surely THEIR brown people are better right? Morons.)
If her trump loving copatriots registered as "black' farmers they could be included in this list... and by buying through them we'd be supporting the establishment no less than if we just went to a mega-corpo grocery store.
I'm all for supporting businesses and groups that are doing something positive for the community or at the very least are trying not to actively make things worse for people but blindly "buying black" is stupid. I'd much rather buy from a fucking worker owned co-op farm that is politically aligned as far away from hate as possible.
Owning a farm is not in any way the same as being farmhands.
There ya go, you can make a site for each of those. Use promo code ImATroll for 0% off.
We'd be better off with a website that has farms owned by the workers that are also politically aligned away from hateful views.
Race based delineation is stupid.
I think we should come up with a term for the kind of people to whom the color of a person's skin is this important.
Do you think there might be a reason their skin color is relevant under the Trump administration?
Edit: Interestingly, your post history shows that you are very interested in skin color yourself.
I think you are conflating where the “importance” has come from. A person can recognize that skin color does not matter. They can also recognize that the system they live in places a huge importance on skin color through endemic systems that have been in place for decades. How do you counteract an unbalanced system? By sticking your fingers in your ears and going “it doesn’t matter” or by seeking out those who are trying to make a change?
Unfortunately, for some folks it’s never enough. Why only black folks? Why not disabled folks? Why not indigenous folks? Etc. But you have to start somewhere - and many people aren’t even trying. My point is that projects like this are a start. They’re not going to solve every issue but they’re trying to make a difference and I think that’s neat.
I wouldn't agree with "sticking fingers in my ears and saying it doesn't matter" being a fair representation of what I'm trying to say here.
I would claim that in the case of person's skin color we truly shouldn't care about it any more than we care about the color of their hair or eyes. It's it’s a description of appearance, not a reflection of who they are. If we want to live in a world where this is the case, then my argument is that paying more attention to it is not the way to go. I'm sure the people behind this have good intentions but it's the method I disagree with here.
It's not about their skin color to me. It's more about a likeliness that they're not a Republican. Yes, I know, there are black Republicans, but it's less likely.
There is greater demonstration of community among non white people. As such, theres a built in hook not just for saying hello to a stranger, but for coming together to organize something like this. I think that’s more likely where it’s coming from than what you’re thinking.
Either way, I’d like a better veggie source for the things we don’t grow ourselves.
5 day old account and you're posting like crazy all over the place.
Now where have I seen that type of behaviour before...
I didn't know that averaging 10 messages per day is considered "posting like crazy"
Lets hear your theory then about what that means.
Anti-white nationalists? Or anti-MAGAts?
Just spitballin here...
We do: "Republicans"
