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rosahaj @lemmy.blahaj.zone

Is BIFL Still Possible Today?

Hi there, I came here to the BIFL Lemmy out of suspicion that the reddit posts are just unlabelled marketing, and I was wondering the possibility of sourcing goods that are more to a BIFL standard? In my area, second hand goods tend to be really quite poor in quality (reselling fast fashion) or otherwise not present, and I have not inherited anything that does last. So I would apprecite advice or reccomendations for finding goods at a BIFL standard. I was also wondering if maybe there would be anyone with good advice for finding sustainable, local textile production so that I may be able to tailor what I need without having to buy from the poor selection aforementioned, does anyone know of any of this?

TL:DR I am suspicious that a lot of what is claimed as 'BIFL' has been enshittified, and would like advice on being able to search for sustainable goods for a local area (not specified because I'm hoping for advice with searching, not exactly for specific reccs)

85 comments

  • To a large extent I tend to think the same way I was taught with cars, simple is sturdy. Skip the fancy features and WiFi widgets and you'll replace things a lot less often. It's not always practical, but I'm willing to bet my cast iron cookware is going to be in roughly the same shape far longer than some stamped sheet metal with anti stick coating and a glass lid.

    • yeah, i absolutely agree. I tend to want very little, which helps me to not have to be buying things too often, especially since I go for things that are simple enough to serve some function without much else. Does 'simple' stuff that is made today have a similar quality to things that have proven their durability over years?

      • I guess that's hard to say without the benefit of time behind it. Part of why you see some brands show up over and over though is that they have the history to back up the claims and plenty often those places are not going to risk that reputation of reliability to cheap out on the quality now.

    • People frequently ask me about appliance advice. I always told him to buy the absolute basic model. Every extra feature is one that can break.

    • practical minimalism, adopting it as a life philosophy has made things way easier.

  • i think one thing to keep in mind with BIFL is that it's gonna be painfully expensive, and we tend to have a skewed perspective since a lot of what people buy these days is second hand and thus nowhere near the original sale value.

    Like has been said for new BIFL stuff you want to look for business/industrial stuff, or handmade things from passionate people, which is not cheap.

    I think it's pretty unrealistic to expect most of your things to be BIFL unless you can get second hand/inherited things, i'd say think about what things are most important to you and try to invest your money into those few things and find ways to make everything else as minimal and sustainable (and cheap) as possible.
    For example people in the medieval era and before generally just wore simple leather turnshoes in the warm seasons, which were fully expected to wear out and they'd need to slap together a new pair every now and then. But that's fine because literally all you need to make them is some crummy leather scraps!

  • I use Goodonyou.eco to check out fashion and beauty brand's ethical standards. It's not perfect but it gives a pretty good 'quick view' of whether they're dog shit or not.

    In terms of BIFL, other than my Sunbeam Coffee filter machine, we've taken to buying second hand or locally made furniture.

    • thank you for the site suggestion :) I always struggle to track down the ethics of companies, which leaves me in a kind of choice paralysis.

      Seems sunbeam is pretty popular around these parts haha, happy cake day by the by

  • Like others have said it depends what you are looking for, but durable goods still exist. I'm generally on the look for tech but digital tech isn't really going to be BIFL no matter what and no one really makes analog or mechanical tech anymore. Asking around in this community and others like it for suggestions for specific things that you are looking for may be your best bet. Additionally, some folks like myself will occasionally write up a review on something that they have bough new that has the makings of being durable.

    Basically what I look for is how "stout" does the thing feel (does it feel like it might fall apart just looking at it?), will it fail gracefully (will it remain somewhat functional even if parts of it have failed), how difficult will it be to repair (in the case of tech how is it sealed and are parts available), and what is the reputation of the company in question (do they make trash or do their things last a while). Edit: Another thing I look for is, is the thing overly complicated in design. The simpler it is made the more likely it is to survive the kind of abuse I am likely to put it through.

    As for locally made, I wouldn't worry about that overly much. Just because something was "Artisanally crafted" does not mean that it was necessarily well made.

    You mentioned clothing specifically so I'll put in a good word for Carhartt's work wear. Most of their stuff that I've owned has been destroyed through actual abusive use and not shoddy workmanship. I can also vouch for Saddleback Leather, at least as of about 10 years ago. The bags I've bought from them are still going strong despite borderline abusive treatment by me. Not sure of their current reputation though and their owner is a bit "odd". Military surplus also tends to be well made, assuming it is actual surplus. I've seen multiple examples here in the US where cheap Chinese copies have been put on the shelves and called surplus, particularly with uniforms and bags.

    For tools, I'm fond of Husky and Kobalt hand tools and Ryobi power and yard tools, though in truth I haven't had to buy new tools in 10-ish years, Though I did just have a Ryobi leaf blower die on me after 6 years service. Still debating with myself whether to replace it with another Ryobi blower or begin transitioning to Ego. Which is another tool company I hear very good things about.

    • I myself yearn to still be able to buy analog and mechanical things (varying, obvs; i.e im in good health so i dont need an electric salt shaker, etc) but they're weirdly uncommon now, you just cant repair electrics the same :( (through random prodding, lol)

      thank you for the appraising method reccomendation! I did also wanna quickly say that when I say local I don't mean 'artisinal' but more 'i would rather avoid shipping costs, unneeded transport (for sustainanility reasons), and if you source things overseas, it's likely a bigger name i.e, prone to enshittification. Is that odd? should I bite the bullet and even buy second hand from overseas?

      also, I've tried looking at surplus, but it's really hard to sort through (feels like its your mentioned cheap chinese copies), or is being sold for 'collecting' (i.e vintage and very expensive)

      • I myself yearn to still be able to buy analog and mechanical things (varying, obvs; i.e im in good health so i dont need an electric salt shaker, etc) but they’re weirdly uncommon now, you just cant repair electrics the same :( (through random prodding, lol)

        Digital gear is cheaper, lighter, and FAR more compact. The trade off is that it just doesn't last as long. As for repair, It's not really more difficult (so long as you can get the chips), it's just a different skill set is required than in the past. Gen Z would be baffled looking at an old tube amp or spring reverb. God help them if they dug into an old Pinball or DJ machine from the 60's or 70's.

        thank you for the appraising method reccomendation! I did also wanna quickly say that when I say local I don’t mean ‘artisinal’ but more 'i would rather avoid shipping costs, unneeded transport (for sustainanility reasons), and if you source things overseas, it’s likely a bigger name i.e, prone to enshittification. Is that odd?

        I get you. I'm part of that supply chain, drive a truck for a living.

        Not sure where your from, but here in the US it is almost impossible to buy locally made for anything except services. Manufacturing is too thinly spread out, assuming you can even find something US made. Best we can do here is to try and buy from local suppliers where possible, which for many of the things I often need is not always possible.

        should I bite the bullet and even buy second hand from overseas?

        Secondhand junk is still junk. Though, if you can get it for a reasonable price you might get some use of it and delay it's trip to the dump. Though it has to be extremely discounted for me to bite.

        also, I’ve tried looking at surplus, but it’s really hard to sort through (feels like its your mentioned cheap chinese copies), or is being sold for ‘collecting’ (i.e vintage and very expensive)

        Military surplus is VERY regional. Here in the US, most of the Cold War surplus got sold off back in the early 2000's. Iraq and Afghanistan didn't generate nearly the build up of excess material that Vietnam did, hence the slim pickings. Given the World landscape, I'd say the picking will be slim for a good long while.

  • For certain things, yeah I think so. Good knives, cast iron cookware. Fountain pens yes, as long as spare parts are available. Meze headphones are designed to be completely user serviceable, but that will entirely depend on if they continue to make spare parts.

    I would say a majority of modern electronics and appliances are all designed for obsolescence. Born to die. Surprisingly, I have bought things off AliExpress that are more serviceable than most mainstream electronics! Linux-based gaming handhelds that are assembled with screws, no clips or glue. With replaceable components. Headphone amps with socketed op-amps so you can replace or change them at your will.

    The real BIFL these days is definitely priced at luxury levels. Speed Queen washers and dryers. Sub-Zero refrigerators. Tudor watches.

    With how electronic everything is these days, if you want to BIFL, you better get good at diagnosing and repairing tiny surface mount PCB components. That's where I'm at now, with a lot of my game consoles. I can toss an SSD in my PS2 and play some San Andreas. No discs, no laser issues! But that PS2 still has 24 year old capacitors, and they're probably going to die at some point.

    I have no idea regarding locally sourced textile goods, sorry. Hammer Made has great men's shirts, but I don't know anything beyond that.

  • I am coming down from a migraine, so please forgive me being jumbly, but I have a few points:

    You say that many BIFL posts feel like marketing, and I agree, but I also think there's also an additional, more pernicious aspect to it all. By that, I mean that many of the "genuine" posts felt like they were inducing in me the headspace of having been marketed to. This is largely a me thing, in that when I went searching for recommendations, I was aiming to buy something. Idk, something something commodity fetishism. But in the end, I found that I was questing for some perfect product that would be reliable, but I needed to stop thinking so much in terms of products.

    In practice, this meant that my quest towards BIFL would have been better served by not buying stuff at all. Don't feel obligated to watch if you're not someone who enjoys 40 minute YouTube videos, but this guy considers "what the hell is 'high quality' in fashion?" and many of his points apply more generally than fashion, imo. One of the big points in that video is how the language we use to try to describe high quality will inevitably be appropriated; for example, I bet you would be dubious of any jeans that describe themselves as being "high quality". So one phrase that became popular a while back was jeans made of "selvedge denim". However, because people treated "selvedge denim" as being equal to quality, there were a lot of shitty quality jeans made with selvedge denim that I don't trust that phrase anymore. Maybe once upon a time, selvedge denim jeans were, on average, higher quality, but that's not true anymore.

    I think BIFL was about this quest for quality is doomed to failure. Product quality is generally worse nowadays, but also the language we use is a bit rubbish. Unfortunately, I haven't found any shortcuts.

    Regarding tailoring, unless you're already proficient at sewing, you should consider finding a local tailor who can do minor alterations. Even this is difficult though, because finding a good tailor can take multiple attempts. People I know who have a good tailor are almost fanatical in their loyalty, likely because of how useful it is to have one. This is why learning to tailor one's own clothes can be smart, but good quality fabric is super expensive and it may be best to practice on clothes you already own. (N.b. I am using tailoring to mean something different than making clothes from scratch. I can semi do both, so I don't know how hard it is to learn one skill but not the other)

    For finding good fabric though, word of mouth is a big thing. I went to a craft fair a while back and I asked a knitter where she gets her yarn from. She advised a big site that I was already aware of, but also spoke of a place that she buys from when she's being self indulgent. A friend spent a while trying to find authentic fabric for historical re-enactment, so I asked her where she got stuff like that, and got a few more recommendations. I go for crumbs of recommendations wherever possible, and I really enjoy asking people for advice, even for things I don't necessarily, because it makes me feel more rooted into a community; when I started crochet recently, I already had a bunch of yarn intel. Also, before then, I really relished having advice if anyone asked me about yarn advice. I kept notes on what people said was good.

    But also, if you do get into making and tailoring clothes, a lot of this is knowledge that you'll gain gradually. I think there is some notion of what "objectively good quality" means, when it comes to textiles and the like, but it's also fairly loose and subjective. I found this tricky because I too, have nothing to inherit (besides a sturdy ice cream scoop that my mum stole from the military), so I am very familiar with shitty quality stuff. When I first started indulging in higher quality materials and products, it was splendiferous, but it took me a while to learn that I could go too far with chasing value; after a certain point, cost comes down to exclusivity and rarity.

    Once I've woken up more, I'll share with you some examples of what looks good quality textile stuff near me, in case you find the perspective useful. I understand why you didn't want to say roughly where you are, but perhaps if you said your country/state, I could point you towards community resource type things, because there truly is no replacement for getting intel from people local to you, if you value local production. But also, a big strategy for finding local stuff is to consider the concrete material conditions of how things are made: I went to a local fabric shop, and made notes whenever I found things that looked nice. Local shops are also nice, because whilst they are obviously there to sell stuff to you, I feel far more free to ask "I'm looking for some high quality wool to make a coat with, what would you recommend?". It's okay to make notes and go away and research (it's even okay to purchase the wool elsewhere if necessary, though good to support local businesses if you benefit from their knowledge). Some of the fancier bolts of cloth will have a brand on them. This is how I found out about Linton Tweeds, a fabric mill in the North of England that has a lot of history. Another time, I saw a large mill on my way up to Scotland, and I later googled that mill. This is a clunky way of saying that although a heckton of stuff is imported and the products are separated from their context of being made, that there are still crafts people making high quality stuff. It's often a heckton more expensive (and the more expensive, hand made stuff isn't necessarily better quality than stuff made with more industrial methods), but it's nice nonetheless to feel more connected to things. Building up things is gradual, especially if you don't have much high quality stuff to start with, but don't be overly precious about things. Ultimately, you don't need high quality stuff to be able to care about things enough to repair or modify them. Part of how you can undermine fast fashion is by making the most of the lower quality products you currently have now.

  • apologies for the doomer title, I'm just truly out of my depth and hoped it would bring more eyes over :)

85 comments