1w ago

‘The gesture speaks for itself’: Germans respond to Musk’s apparent Nazi salute

www.theguardian.com ‘The gesture speaks for itself’: Germans respond to Musk’s apparent Nazi salute

Some say it was an unambiguous Nazi salute but others are unsure and say focus should be on Musk’s stated support for far-right

Summary

Elon Musk faced backlash after making a gesture at a Trump inauguration event resembling a Nazi salute, sparking condemnation in Germany.

Critics, including Jewish leaders and Chancellor Olaf Scholz, called the act provocative and linked it to Musk's support for Germany's far-right AfD party.

Musk dismissed the accusations, calling them baseless.

Legal experts noted the gesture could be prosecuted under German law if malicious intent is proven.

Critics stressed its troubling context given the far-right audience and Musk’s political affiliations.

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32 comments

How can it be prosecuted under German law if not done in Germany?
The repercussions I'd like to see is twitter ban. At least for the government organisations.
EDIT: why the downvotes, the question is legitimate.
- Because relevant is not where it is done, but whether it is suitable to disturb the public peace in Germany. So it takes effect in Germany and if the prosecutors would choose so, they could charge him in Germany and if that leads to an arrest warrant, it could be executed here too.
  To conceptualize it, think of online scamming. If someone in India is scamming eldery in the US, the US would also prosecute it, despite the perpetraitor being abroad.
  
  Your analogy doesn't work, since that is a crime that involves a us citizen. Moreover us claims jurisdiction of anyone all over the world uses usd.
  With the heil we have a "victimless" crime that takes place in the other country and doesn't involve anyone who is German (or uses German currency).
  This is comparable to Poland wanting to prosecute people who go to have abortions abroad. Or Texas trying to prosecute people going for abortions to other states. This is just not how jurisdiction works.
  
  This has been part of a legal discussion over the past twentyish years, as the Internet allows for people to do hate speech that is prosecutable under German law from outside Germany, but targeted towards a German audience.
  The English Wikipedia entry does not include the section about this issue, however the German one does. Maybe you could pass it through a translator of your choice. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksverhetzung#Anwendung_auf_Auslandstaten_(Strafanwendungsrecht)
  Basically the Bundesgerichtshof (federal court) which is the highest instance below the constitutional court used to rule it as sufficient, when the hate speech can be available in Germany. In 2016 they changed this opinion, saying that the possible availability in Germany does not constitute a success of the act and hence it cannot be considered part of the suitability of hate speech committed in another country. Because of that surrounding laws were amended in 2020 to specify that hate speech committed abroad can be prosecuted in Germany, if it was received by a wider audience (i think this is evident in the case of Musks Hitler salute) and the perpetrator is either a German citizen or has significant connections to Germany.
  In regards to jurisdiction you cannot apply the concepts that work inside a federal nation state to how things work between nation states.
  Poland could pass a law to prosecute abortions done abroad under their own jurisdiction, if such a law would be in accordance with other EU laws. If we take the UK instead as an example, they could absolutely do that. Now whether other countries would extradite someone accused under such a law to the UK is another question.
  
  the main takeaway about things working between federal nation states is that they work like they work because there is no-one above federal nation states to tell them how jurisdiction works in such cases.
  If powerful enough nation says that they have jurisdiction and no-one opposes them then they have it.
  I fear that Germany might not want to anger the us.
- Updoot because I had the same question and was reading the responses from your comment

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