If I had a nickel for every time someone says "this person's being a huge jerk to me but I think they might be neurodivergent"
If I had a nickel for every time someone says "this person's being a huge jerk to me but I think they might be neurodivergent"
Regular reminder that being an asshole is not a symptom of any form of neurodivergence. (You can replace “neurodivergent” with depressed, anxious, bipolar, etc. and the diagram works equally well)
ETA: social faux pas, awkwardness, and genuine symptoms of neurodivergence don’t make you an asshole. I shouldn’t have to say this? An “asshole” is someone who enacts a pattern of abusive, controlling, harassing, and/or harmful behavior with no remorse or concern for how other people are affected.
I agree but would qualify my agreement with a note:
Some of our neurodivergent traits come across as assholeish or rude behavior and while most of us try and temper and mask it does slip out especially in high stress situations.
Intention matters.
I think it's my responsibility to explain to coworkers and make super sure they understand how I am especially after a high stress event (for me that'd likely be a server outage in production).
"I don't care what's wrong with you. If you're an asshole, you're an asshole"
This has stuck with me for about 15 years now. A neurodivergent stage crew member who was consistently an asshole was being an asshole again, so this other kid just yelled at him and told him off. Everyone in the room gave him the shocked Pikachu face because he yelled at the ND kid. Someone said "dude, you cant yell at him" and then he laid down this quote.
I think it depends. My son is deep on the spectrum. He's pretty pleasant, and he can tell if he's making someone upset or angry, but often has no idea why.
I could absolutely see him being rude or making someone uncomfortable without knowing it, and in many cases I think it would be a challenge to help him even comprehend how or why he was doing so, even if he could tell it was happening.
One of the things that makes me feel the worst for him is when he can tell he's not handling a situation "correctly" but has no idea why. It really upsets him.
So yeah, I cut people who I think might be ND some slack.
Yes, but it's IMHO not as clear cut. Some of the things we do because of our executive function disorder can be interpreted as us being assholes by those we interact with. One can act like an asshole at times and not intrinsically be one. Some things are perceived as assholeish by some people but not others.
I'm direct and highly value honesty, but I've learned that's no excuse for lacking tact. Being a minimal degree of kind and polite to neurotypical people isn't particularly difficult, it's just learning to interface with someone whose emotional drivers you may not completely share. It's easier than learning to interface with a nonverbal species like a cat or a parrot.
had this happen in politics subs. “wow i can’t believe you hold the beliefs you do, what kind of neurodivergent are you?” has deadass happened
i would rather you call me a slur :(
Elon Musk.
Hell in the UK we had the (ex?) host of MasterChef, Greg Wallace, accused of being inappropriate with women in the workplace and making them feel unsafe and uncomfortable around him - Nothing illegal (that I know of), sure, but enough that he was rightfully dropped from whatever broadcaster was employing him.
Cut to a week into the tabloid media meltdown, Greg claims he "thinks he's on the spectrum" as an explanation for his sexually explicit and creepy behaviour around women. The usual shit where you're neuro typical until you're a prick then you're actually an autistic smol bean uWu.
When that didn't help, he then showed his true colours by claiming the "typical" kind of woman (I'm assuming he's referring to the trope of "ugly" women complaining about sexual harassment) making the complaints that got him fired.
When they ramble on about something you don't care about or actively don't want to discuss, say "Hey I don't like this conversation, can we talk about something else?"
Yellow: "Oh sorry, I didn't mean to make you uncomfortable."
Red: "What? Why don't you wanna talk about this, is it because you secretly hate me or are hiding something? Now I know we need to talk about it until I'm convinced you're hearing what I have to say on this topic."I think a fair number of self-proclaimed "neurodivergent" folks just like it because: a) They think it's a free pass to be an asshole b) They think it indicates some sort of superpower with no downsides and that they are superior to "normal" people.
Knowing some clearly sincerely neurodivergent people I tend to be highly skeptical when people assert that status in an interaction where I wouldn't otherwise be able to tell.
This drives me bananas.
On the one hand as someone with ASD, yeah, I would have loved to have a little more understanding growing up but on the other you do not get a free pass just because you are some flavor of "special". Everyone is special. Everyone is a weird combination of neurotypcial and neurodivergent it's just a matter of degree and how it's all put together. When you say someone is neurotypical... how do you even know?
When you say that something is not your fault because you are neurodivergent did you even try to find a work-around? Did you try to find away to make the other person more comfortable? Did you try to exercise the understanding you demand of others? Or did you just say you don't have to?
I guess MasterCard is either autistic or asshole now
I was in a coffee shop a few years ago and a guy in line was wearing an O.G.R.E. shirt, a way old computer game from 1986.
I said "Nice shirt! Never played that game, though."
Completely delighted, he ranted about his love for the game until my order was ready. And it was a bit hard to get away from him afterward.
This is definitely someone who could've fallen into that category.
But I don't see it that way because I'm also neurodivergent and know people never engage with us like that. Might have made his day.
Just a little story from that borderline in the Venn diagram.
It's exactly why I do not present any of the mental psychological isms my therapist gave me to other people. I've seen loads of folks who pretty much brag about these things—using them as excuses to be shitty or negligent people with no attempt at learning or practicing social skills. I run like the wind anytime I hear someone brag or lament (usually just a backdoor brag) that they are "empathic" or "highly sensitive." I'm very cautious around people who bring up their "ADHD," "anxiety disorder" or "autism"—especially if they do it regularly, publicly (on social media), or very early upon meeting them. And don't get me started about personality disorders. I know people who are legitimately trying their best with all these things, but the genuinely responsible and aware folks seem to rarely wear those as kind of strange badges of identity.
Everyone is an amateur psychologist now
To an extent ya. You need to take responsibility for yourself. But also if I interrupt someone constantly that's not bc I want to
Yeah I've got plenty of issues but I manage to not be a dick, kinda feels like those are separate categories as far as the whole mental space goes.
A business is not obligated to tear out every stairway to make a ramp because some of its users require a wheel chair. In the same vein, not every social interaction where a person who is neurodivergent (diagnosed or not) hurts the feelings of another person is necessarily them being an asshole. Another commenter said something about how intent matters. They're right. It does.
However it matters for both parties. It's situational and it's important to remember that a lot of social interactions involve misunderstandings because there is a lack of communication from both sides and a set of different expectations on both sides.
I don't necessarily think it's fair to view every social interaction through the light of who is the injured party. We don't do that to people with physical conditions. You wouldn't accuse a person in a wheel chair of being an asshole for having an expectation of accessibility. But that's because society as a whole has come to an understanding (by force) that accessibility for these physical conditions is important.
I don't think society has come to that realization about ND people, nor do I think that the average person looks at ND behaviors and adapts to them in a meaningful way.
So when people have an expectation based on Neurotypical behavior and a ND person doesn't meet that expectation, do they recalibrate at all to temper the expectations?
One of the commenters here gave an example about working with a ND person and the response the rest of their co-workers had to another person calling them out for it in a fit of anger. The thing is, it should not have gotten to that point. And it's not just because others should have been setting good boundaries in a healthy way about that behavior. It's also because they should have been tempering their expectations and not overcompensating for that ND person in an unhealthy way.
Part of the problems we're seeing between NT's and ND's have a lot to do with communication and an inability to compromise or at the very least try to find resolution in healthy ways.
One more post for this thread and then protecting my energy. Topic of great passion, interest and survival for me.
You are not an asshole for protecting your energy from abusive behavior.
The following must not be confused with abusive/asshole behavior:
https://purrfurnax.tumblr.com/post/750391775364104192
Social Ostracization and Bannishment should be a last resort only.
We can do better with communal moderation and conflict resolution.
I reccomend the youtube channel AnRel to address some of the greater nuances
Also, this playlist is something i return to every so often: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaOxDnLZqNcmxxkuxTVxYnhrYEOeoTRjP
One of the largest problems for a neurodivergent people is neurotypicals misunderstanding how they communicate and assuming that they are being an asshole simply based on how neurotypical people communicate or miscommunicate with each other.
Not understanding or playing into the neurotypical communication method of constantly lying by way of direction and expecting others to read between the lines often comes off as being an asshole or worse if they assume that you have unmentioned motives.
Yeah I have two childhood friends that are brothers. Their other brother is very autistic. When we were kids a lot of people didn't understand autism enough to get that while yes, his autism did affect the way in which he was a tremendous asshole, it didn't cause it. He happened to have a shit personality and disability level autism
Jokes on you I don't have to be friends with anyone
Preach
Being an asshole is occasionally a symptom of me not being consistent enough with my anxiety meds though unfortunately. But I'm generally really apologetic afterwards when I realize and it doesn't happen often and only for a few days typically.
I'm pretty sure it is a symptom of BPD.
Neurodivergent people: Trying their best to fit into society
You: Fuck those assholes.
As someone who is neurodivergent and operates at an engineering level, when I'm under pressure I can sometimes be an asshole unintentionally. I try my best to recognize when I do this and apologize when I can. It's not something I can help. It's impulsive which means it's hard to control.
Here you are telling everyone that I am not deserving of compassion or understanding and should be written off as an asshole.
Do you know what it's like being neurodivergent? How people treat you when they find out? I now have to be on my best behavior at all times or I could get labeled an asshole and therefore deserve nothing according to you.
Sometimes mental illness is like having a stab wound in your gut and you have to act like everything is fine. It's not always possible in all situations.
To say this post lacks awareness is an understatement.
"Neurodivergent" is the latest umbrella term for people to use when lying about themselves. Its too broad a term. It can apply to most people in some shape or form. It's very easy to claim you are neurodivergent but that says very little about anything, including behavior.
It's become the latest fad diagnosis - fibromyalgia, being allergic to smoke, and synestheisa. Look for something that nobody can prove you don't have, and claim it as your own.
For useful discussion, you need to filter the term further. In this thread, there are people describing autism, personality disorders, etc. They are not all the same thing.