If me and a bunch of my lemmy friends got on a yacht. Went into international waters what could we get away with legally and what would still be illegal?
Make a radio station and broadcast whatever you want.
Chopper Dave!!
Your username cracks me tf up lmao
Rebroadcast Major League Baseball with implied oral consent.
Check out The Boat That Rocked. It's based on true events from the 1960s.
There was a literal pirate radio station in (or technically just beside) the Netherlands, they broadcasted off a ship and because it's a small country, had nearly national coverage.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Veronica
They have since become a legal broadcaster.
Would be cooler to steal a boat and do this.
A terrific film
It's actually really super simple. You would be subject to the laws of the country you reside in or are a citizen of.
Laws don't magically stop working just because you're out of jurisdiction.
There's also, admiralty law, Maritime law and international law, all of which have courts in designated countries. These laws are usually governed by treaty amongst many countries.
How is it that a US citizen, for example, is allowed to purchase and consume alcohol in intentional waters at age 18 when the law is 21 in their country?
Laws don’t magically stop working just because you’re out of jurisdiction.
Actually I would say that most do. Extraterritorial jurisdiction is the exception, not the rule. Many countries apply it for cases of Genocide and War Crimes for example.
You are right though that many countries apply their laws to vessels under their flags in international waters
What about cruise ships and their changes to gambling when in international waters? I've read quite a few times that the rules their machines work with change dramatically in that case. And they're mostly still registered in countries with more strict rules otherwise.
Provided the above is true of course. Or could they be sued in this case?
Gambling is generally a regional thing and is subject to each state. Usually it's governed by where you are currently.
Cruise ships on the other hand are governed by the country the ship is registered in and/or by whatever country they're docked at.
So a law will state specifically that there is no private gambling allowed within the confines of a certain geographical area such as the state of Washington, for example. The law can also make provisions that gambling is allowed on Indian reservations or within certain city limits.
The cruise ship leaves the geographical area where gambling is not allowed and allows gambling to occur in international waters which is fully law-abiding.
Also, most states and governments will provide licensing for casinos. If you qualify you may proceed with gambling in that jurisdiction.
What if you're stateless without a permanent residence?
I assume when you say stateless you are probably referring to the United States. Although there are other country's with states but nevertheless the same would still apply.
You gotta be from somewhere. If you're indigenous in the state of Ohio you're still a resident of Ohio in the country of America. All laws still apply.
If you're referring to something like a sovereign citizen all laws still apply regardless of what people like that may believe.
Casual Navigation talks a bit about this: What Law Applies In International Waters? Essentially, the ship needs to be registered to a country and the laws of that country apply while on the ship. Most ships register themselves in a country with very lax laws, known as a "flag of convenience". The laws of Libera, Panama, and Marshall Islands must be pretty convenient since those are countries most ships get registered.
What happens if you don't register your ship? It's the same as not having a passport. You're going to have a hard time when you want to dock at a port.
But i think there are some crimes that will be prosecuted by your home country anyway, regardless of where the ship is registered. Like if 2 US citizens got on a ship registered to a country where murder is legal, and one killed the other, that person would still be prosecuted for murder when they returned to US soil or any country that has an extradition treaty with the US
i think there are some crimes that will be prosecuted by your home country anyway
It seems pretty rare, but some countries do have laws that essentially apply to citizens, regardless of where they are.
The PROTECT Act is a US law that makes it illegal for any US citizen to have sex with minors, regardless of where in the world it occurs. It's essentially an anti-sex tourism law. Japan and South Korea warned their citizens that smoking cannabis in Canada will still result in prosecution after Canada legalized it.
Interesting factoid - UK murder law applies to everyone everywhere. Theoretically if an American killed somebody in say Egypt and they later passed through the UK, assuming the UK authorities had the evidence somehow they could choose to arrest AND prosecute the crime (if Egypt didn't want to for example).
a country where murder is legal
I don't think there is such a country?
Libera, Panama, and Marshall Islands must be pretty convenient since those are countries most ships get registered.
The people register ships care about minimum wage (none), taxes (low), and other such things. They want laws about murder in case the staff turns on the company.
What if I don't want to dock at a port? What if I just want to live on a boat in the middle of international waters?
Panama is mostly because of cheaper rates to go through the canal, if I'm not mistaken.
That depends. If you declare you are not registered at all that makes you an illegal pirate with no protection at all. If someone else with a yacht decides to sink yours that is probably legal for them - if you fight back they can call their navy to defend them. Regardless of who their yacht is flagged under calling their navy for help probably means they asked the nearest navy (which is almost always the US navy - even if the US hates the country in question the US doesn't want the seas to be a free for all and will come) to help.
If you become self sufficient out there probably nobody will care and you can be there for years no problem. Just don't cause problems and nobody really cares. However if you cause problems expect issues. If one person on your yacht steals from another that is your business, nobody will get involved. If someone steals from someone with a country that country will get involved to protect their own. If kids are born on the yacht they might not have a country which could make life hard (particular as the yacht gets old and is no longer safe!). If you have kids born and then sexually abuse them several countries (in particular the US with their large navy) have declared that illegal anywhere and so they will come in to stop you.
The hard part is to become flagless in the first place. What every country you set out from will just assume the boat has their flag by default. They generally won't let you choose to take it off - they will let you sell it to someone in a different country and then change the flag, but there is nobody with no country who can take ownership of it. Maybe a lawyer can find a work around, but it will not be easy.
Ok the molesting a kid I did not have in mind when asking the question. But your telling me in this day an age that I can still be a pirate? Like if we see another yacht take it over steal everything then sink it. As long as no one is out there on the horizon we are fine? What would happen if I was a US citizen at first flying an american flag out of port then got in the waters changed it to lets say French or something. Would the French take care of me or the US? Also lets say I take one of my lemmy mates and they disappear. Can I just sail back to port and just say fell overboared couldn't help them? And be scott free?
As for being a pirate. The us constitution allows letters of marque which is permission to be a pirate against specific against vessels of some country. the last one was 1815 so good luck getting one but theoretically you could.
The marine hymn 'the shores of Tripoli' refers to a marine battle to stop Libya from issuing letters of marque against us vessels. I believe nealy all old time pirates were registered with Libya operating under a letter of marque and not the storybook idea of stateless ships doing what they want. (anyone enough of a historian to verify)
registration is not about the flag. You are still registered in the us even I you have a french flag up. if you claim to be frence without properly registerng with france (i have no clue how you would do this properly) that is misrepresentation and france would (could) send an internanional warrant to the us and have you arrested since you are still us registered by default.
even if you don't register with the us you are considered US - you just broke the law by not regestering (paying taxes) and so us law applies.
when a ship is registered in panama there is a company in panama that buys the ship and then because they are a panama company the country that the previous owners were in allows the sale and thus registration. Of course the owners of the panama company are a company in a different country.
I doubt you could find an unregistered vessel. Maybe sealand. If you pirate a registered vessel the navies of the world will hunt you down.
Pirates are absolutely still a thing. But it's not Blackbeard and Captain Hook. It's usually Somali pirates, with a heavy emphasis on the violence.
South Park actually had an episode about exactly this.
In a world of anarchy, you can get away with anything, until someone stronger (i.e. military) shows up.
Theoretically, the yacht follows the laws of the place it's registered. On practice, the country you and your friends live will be the one that cares about it... so, it's not any different from what you can do at home.
I think you can get away with just about anything, so long as it doesn't piss off anyone with a bigger navy than you own.
Asking for a Lemmy friend?
We could kiss each other on the mouth.
Pwomise? 👉👈🥹
I'm not sure but I think you would have to comply with the laws of the yacht's flag country. Not carrying the flag I think is a big crime basically everywhere
Not carrying the flag I think is a big crime basically everywhere
Hence why flying the pirate flag is a big deal. You're indicating "no laws here".
As long as you stay out of any land (+x miles distance), and no one of your people calls for help, you can get away with anything, because nobody is coming to check on you, ever.
God can see you. You better not be committing any sins out there.
I'll try my best. It is probably somewhat helpful for me that I do not have an appropriate boat.
But regarding these people with their huge luxury boats out there: I am pretty sure that they are doing it for the sole purpose of committing all kinds of sins.
Upvoted to compensate for the two masturbators who downvoted you
We're assuming they are making a sin live broadcast or recording, for there to be any sort of commenting? Is it like a strange new radical sports event?
Not stealing a yacht!
"Me got on a yacht?"
Legally, you can get away with anything as long as you don't get caught.
This applies to land also
And space!
And sometimes even when you do get caught but you're rich.