1mo ago

How useful would amateur radio knowledge be in an extended power outage or natural disaster?

I have recently become more aware of and generally interested in electronics and amateur radio, and it got me thinking. What advantage, if any, would there be to having amateur radio experience, over a simple disaster crank radio/flashlight, in the event of a major natural disaster or some other emergency that leads to a longer delay in power being restored? For the sake of argument, let’s assume you have a generator or battery bank to supply your own electricity.

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Huge advantages. So much so that multiple government agencies will actively rely on amateur operators to get status reports and communications in and out of disaster zones. There are organizations dedicated to training and indexing operators too, both independent and government run.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_emergency_communications
http://www.arrl.org/amateur-radio-emergency-communication
For personal communications it's not that great of course, but you can become an invaluable asset to your nearby community by having a radio during a disaster.
Typical mobile amateur radio kits can be operated on tens of watts at most, and will effectively run indefinitely from small solar panels or an idling car. And you can reach out quite far just by tossing an aerial wire up in a tree anywhere.
If you're interested in getting into amateur radio I highly recommend it. It's super fun to chase signals and see what parts of the world you can talk to. Definitely worth getting licensed as it's not a terribly expensive hobby to get into either (although the cost ceiling can be.... very high haha).
You don't need a license to listen, only transmit, so if you don't want to committ you can grab a cheap radio and some wire for a poor man's listening station.
- I assume you're talking about HAM radio?
  A buddy of mine got really into that. From what he's told me, yes getting licensed is pretty cheap and straightforward. But getting a rig can be a bit pricey. With even a fairly basic second-hand rig costing hundreds of dollars or more.
  It's something I'm tired with getting into, but I haven't had much time to really dig into it any further. Do you have any insights or links/resources you can share?
  Thanks.
  
  I guess it depends on your aspirations and where you live?
  A radio that can hit the bands longer than the 10 meter band is pricey. Which is why Ham has traditionally been the sort of hobby that a distinguished older white gentleman does, not a thing for regular people.
  On the other hand, a cheap VHF/UHF handheld radio can be really quite cheap (Baofeng radios being an example). You will only be able to talk to the local area but most areas have a repeater in convenient geographic locations (mountaintops, ideally) that will listen on one frequency and then transmit at higher power on another frequency so that you can reach a wider area. So in my area for the EmComm use-case, there's a whole organized VHF/UHF system of volunteers.
  Oh yeah, and you can also screw around with putting custom firmware on WiFi devices or Meshtastic in Ham mode.
  I dono... I'd like to think that there's useful things especially these days to be done with Ham radio and that it's not just a thing that is just for distinguished older white gentlemen, but it's kinda hamstrung (LOL, pun) by the present-day audience that's preventing people from seeing what it could be.
  
  Pedant's note: it's ham radio, not HAM.
- Very cool! I had no idea this was a thing! Very up my alley - I’m going to dig in some more, thanks for sharing

Probably a lot. There’s was (is?) a long productive relationship between Red Cross disaster efforts and amateur radio.
- Still is. My brother is a ham radio operator. When certain areas get hard hit, if normal communication towers go down, they will fly in ham radio operators .
  He hasn’t been called yet (not sure if he’s on a list to be called) but it wouldn’t surprise me if he is.
  
  And HAM operators near the area helps relaying information from people on the ground

Something that should maybe be pointed out about ham radio is that there's local ham radio (VHF/UHF) and there's long distance ham radio (HF). People keep mentioning that ham radio can reach long distances, even other continents, and that's true but that's the harder, more expensive HF side of ham radio.
When you get your first ham license, you are limited to VHF/UHF bands and a little slice of the 10 meter HF band that isn't very useful. Even if it were useful, most radios are either VHF/UHF only ($100-300, $30 for a lower powered handheld radio), HF only ($500 and up), or all bands (well over $1000.)
It's hard to talk about range because it always depends on location, but VHF/UHF has a range that should cover your town/city and maybe enough to reach the next town, maybe enough to reach outside the disaster zone, depending on the disaster. VHF/UHF only needs a simple, cheap antenna that you can stick to anything and it'll just work, more or less.
HF generally requires big antennas that take a lot of tweaking and/or other expenses to work right.
- This. But I will say that during Hurricane Ian, direct hit, my 2m/70cm radio was very useful. Local group is extremely active. Messages to family/friends were passed on until someone with a phone would make a call for them, passing traffic. Hearing the updates of power, gas and aid in what areas was a huge help that news stations just couldn't give at the speed it was given over radio. Radio operators were stationed in hospitals as backups for first responders and in shelters.
  On a day to day basis? Not very useful unless you go HF. Then it's expensive, even with "cheap" equipment. You don't have to buy a $5k Kenwood but you'll still be spending a lot.
  TH-9800 and a X50 antenna 25ft in the air gets me 20 miles+ crystal clear. Florida, very flat. ~$300 not including coax cost. A $30 baofang and a slim Jim jpole thrown over a tree branch is enough to hit my local repeater though.
  On a fun note that same baofang radio I've used for listening to ISS broadcasting to a elementary school and Russian SSTV, decoded with Robot36 on android, pictures from ISS.
  
  It's been a while, but I always had good luck with a half-wave dipole. It takes some effort to put one up, but it isn't that hard or expensive. At the time, I was also able to get some ancient used gear for a couple hundred that could handle all the HF bands.
  I've been thinking about getting back into that, with natural disasters becoming more frequent and severe.
  
  I didn't mean to imply one was better than the other, just that someone interested in getting into it should know it's not all the same.
  I actually prefer VHF/UHF, there's just something about the mobility of it that I like so much more. But I live in an area where storms or tornadoes are the main threat, not hurricanes. If we have a disaster, we just need to coordinate, or maybe ask for help from the next town.
  If something widespread hits us, I know guys who often get up at 3am because some HF band is supposed to be open. I'll let them handle that.
- Could you run one of these on a generator? Like a small single-family generator with wheels
  
  Yeah, no problem. Most ham radios are set up to use 12 volts so they can be installed in a vehicle. They don't need a lot of power. But if you're using it at home with normal 120v power (from the power company or from a generator) you actually have to get a power supply to feed it 12 volts. This is a cheap one: https://www.amazon.com/Regulated-Converter-Interface-Amplifiers-TOPPOWER-PS1330A/dp/B0CZP5C2PY?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&smid=A5JF8YGI5RMR2&gQT=1
  You could also hook it up to a 12v battery and use the generator to charge the battery.

Funny you ask because I literally just got my ham license because of this.
Radio works without infrastructure. Okay there's some ham stuff that is internet-connected et al but overall you are just spewing radio waves into the ether with a variety of simple encodings and someone else can pick them up. So powering a few radios off of a dinky solar panel and battery combo is no biggie, whereas powering cell towers, routing infrastructure, et al is a bunch of generators that need to be fueled and whatnot.
Like... you can hit the 20-meter-and-longer wavelengths with a radio and a random bit of wire and some ingenuity and get your signal all over the place. And the maximum power you are ever allowed is 1500 watts and most folks can make do with far less power than that.
Also, amateur radio has fun stuff to do other than mere EmComm needs. Part of why Twitter used to be handy in a pinch for lesser-disasters in days past was that it could be used for EmComm needs but also had other fun stuff to be done with it. Things that are "just" for EmComm infrastructure tend to get forgotten about and abandoned and rot away to nothingness.
A lot of areas in the US have ARES/RACES orgs to provide an already organized group of people... but some of the fun games that hams play like POTA/SOTA, Field Days, et al also serve to make it fun to have a portable setup.
- POTA is fun. Everyone is so chill. I only get out a few times a year these days, but I love setting up in the woods. I should do it more.

So I've got a different perspective that might help. During the hurricane disaster this year in the mountains of NC there was a big hub bub about getting starlink and internet services deployed into the area. I couldn't fathom it, like people's houses are gone and are picking up debris to try and survive, we're really prioritizing communication over survival?!?
Then I saw interview after interview that finally made it click. People are creatures of habit, disconnecting them completely throws them off. Countless stories of not even knowing what day it was, scared because they can't contact family, just general chaos because the entire routine of day to day life is gone. Internet access/communication strangely helps everyone calm the fuck down.
You might be stressed in a disaster area, but being able to radio someone outside to just talk to for a while would probably be a blessing. Having the ability to reach out to loved ones of neighbors through a radio contact just to let them know everyone is alive would be stress relieving for everyone involved. I think now that it is important to have a connection-line out of the area not just for safety, but just general normality during a time nothing seems normal.
- We are social creatures, communication is a need not a desire.

One of the reasons why ham radio has been around for so long (without losing -most- of its bandwidth) is that its proven to be so helpful in those scenarios. VHF bands are great for helping people locally, and one of the HF bands will usually be open to in-country and world-wide comms.
Another perk of hamming is getting to know locals, to prepare for emergencies ('Field Days' ), and to share ideas for gear, antennas and operations with a usually great gang of fellow hams.
You'll find a lot of info about all sides of it at the ARRL site: http://arrl.org/

I don't know about major coordination, but I keep a couple sets of walkies that use CB band channels around for just such a purpose. It's comforting to have coms available that don't rely on a central infrastructure.
- That's good. A big thing people forget though, is practice. If you've only ever used them a few times, it can be hard to remember the details of how they work or if they work, and what to expect from them when they're working.
  That's what makes ham radio so great, you practice at least semi regularly, or as much as you want. Plus the distances you're capable of are much larger, if that's important to you. Sometimes local is more important.

This is a nice article about recent amateur radio utilization during a hurricane: Through Hurricanes Helene and Milton, Amateur Radio Triumphs When All Else Fails.
Basically, it can be useful for relaying information for first responders, calling for help, and relaying communications between families and communities.

I was able to communicate with some 170 miles away. This was using no infrastructure using only my wire antenna, a radio and a half dead regular 9v battery. I would say ham radio would come in handy if shit hits the fan.

I'm GMRS licensed, it's like FRS (WalMart radios) with more power and additional channels. I don't have my tech ham license but will probably get it. I want a GMRS repeater, there are cheap ones out of China that are within reach.
GMRS is good for local communication with your group, and if anyone is around they will certainly be monitoring those frequencies.

Pretty useful. I’ve got a bunch of handhelds, and if the cell towers are out, it would be nice to keep in touch with my wife if she goes out shopping (of course that would also require the stores to be open still). Keep in mind, at the power level you can transmit for just basic GMRS (50 watts max), you can only communicate a few miles in a suburban landscape. Also, both base stations have to be able to transmit at that power to have two way communication.

Honestly I think it depends. I've got my license and the only people I've really contacted have been old farts in the surrounding communities. Ham radio has a ton of potential but I think a limiting factor people aren't thinking about is who is going to be on the other side that is actually capable of helping you.
That being said it's an option you didn't have before and the barrier to entry is pretty low in terms of effort and cost so I say give it a shot!

Well, a ham radio transmitter will let you transmit. If you can reach someone else who has power and a ham radio rig, you can get a message to them
A disaster radio will receive. You can receive mass-broadcasted information.
For the vast majority of people out there, I doubt that either is all that critical for most scenarios in 2024.
Internet access basically replaces both of them.
Not to mention broadcast cell alert service, which is available in the US (though not, as I understand, globally).
Just about everyone has a cell phone that has both a radio receiver and transmitter and has global routing already in place, so all that's necessary to provide communications to pretty much everyone in an area is to get cell coverage up, and provides on-demand information. Getting cell service functioning after a disaster is a priority, and there are trucks with generators and satellite uplinks that get deployed.
So if you're using AM/FM radio or ham radio, it's likely just going to be as a backup to that.
There are places where I'd want some kind of voice radio transmitter. If I lived somewhere very remote that didn't have cell coverage or on a remote island, say, with only a small number of people, where getting cell coverage back up might not be as high a priority, then I think that it'd make a more-reasonable backup. But if you live near civilization, you probably already have stuff that in place that handles the job.
Anyone who has a car probably has a generator-backed AM/FM radio with a large, charged battery anyway, so getting another one is as a backup to that backup.
- I'm not convinced on the cell phone thing. Every time there's even a minor thing around where I am, like a dinky little power outage, everybody grabs their cellphone and my service goes to crap, so much so that when I've tried to work through a power outage with my phone, I've worked out of my wife's car after having driven somewhere that does have power.
  Also, a standard ham radio uses a lot less power than the entire chain of phone plus network equipment. So, sure, there's cell tower trucks with generators but a ham rig needs a dinky little solar panel.
  
  everybody grabs their cellphone and my service goes to crap
  FYI: Text sometimes work when calls don't. Text use much less bandwidth.

Easy: you can use your amateur radio to call someone in another town and ask them to bring you a bucket full of electricity.
- Or to let people know where he is or that he needs medical supplies

HAM radio will only get you so far as it depends on the other end also having power. A CB radio connected to your car would likely be of more use.
- What are you talking about?
  HAM radio operators can talk between continents.
  CB has nowhere near enough power to do that.
  They also have two vastly different usecases.
  CB can be used as a dispatch system for cars and trucks, great for coordination of local vehicles.
  HAM would be used for relaying data between physical sites, data about status of people, food, housing, water, power.
  Both are important, but HAM is more important.
  
  See my other comment, if the stated purpose is to help your community during a power outage or natural disaster, and you're the only one in your community with power, it doesn't do much good.
  Calling Texas over HAM doesn't help communicate and coordinate local efforts.
  You can only communicate, locally, to other people who have power.
  A CB radio lets you talk to anyone with a CB in their vehicle.
- ?
  My brother is a ham radio operator. He’s in Minnesota and can talk to people in Texas.
  He can also use satellite systems to bounce his signals further.
  
  Yeah, but talking during a power outage or natural disaster means comnunicating locally.
  If you're trying to help the community, calling Texas isn't much use. :(
  So, yeah, you might have power, but if other local services don't, you'll be better able to communicate and organize via CB instead of HAM.
- Are you under the impression that ham radio is not capable of being powered by a car?
  Are you aware that virtually all ham radio equipment is portable, and designed to operate on 12v power sources?
  
  It CAN be, but OP is talking about batteries and generators, meaning a fixed installation and not a mobile one.
- Many, many (most?) commercial ham radios are powered by ~12VDC, and can be run directly off of a car battery in many cases (always use a fuse, kids!).
  
  Always use two fuses! Need to fuse the ground lead as well because the antenna is bonded to frame of the car!

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