Arguing for indigenous sovereignty with other settlers
Arguing for indigenous sovereignty with other settlers
Arguing for indigenous sovereignty with other settlers
I think it’s a a self report whenever you have these discussions and white people assume that indigenous groups will be as genocidal as they were
It's just human nature /s
They won't be. Which is why a pre-condition to returning indigenous land is white self-genocide. It's the one thing we know how to do, let's put it to good by doing it to ourselves.
Well, yes, but also: Dubul' ibhunu got a more intense ring to it. Though in practice it will be more akin to what you write.
They're gonna scoop us all up in a big dump truck and dump us into the sea
and frankly we deserve itmfw I get returned to the seafoam whence I came
Uhh well actually they'd use a haul trgurgle warble gurgle
What would be the ecological impact of millions of anglos getting dumped into the atlantic ocean
The ammonia spike would be huge.
Anybody who's afraid that will happen is 100% projecting
It is sort of understandable that someone unfamiliar with landback but familiar with the fact that literally all the land in the Americas belonged to Native Americans would completely misinterpret what landback means of you dont specify that returning large amounts of public land is all that has to mean, and that it actually does not mean returning all of the stolen land. Also helps that one of the comments under this comment will be a picture of Hans Moleman from the Simpsons and "I was saying it"
Edit: oh somebody already posted it lmao
and that it actually does not mean returning all of the stolen land.
Returning public lands in the capitalist system would just mean that the corporations will strong arm the tribes to exploit the land unfortunately
This has actually happened before
Literally the reason why the new chilean constitution got rejected, just replace”white” with chilean
Y'all can literally give your land back to indigenous people at any time.
What land 😅
Everytime I try it my landlord gets involved.
i own nothing and i am happy
Done
It's some wild almost comical level of projection
I mean, some of y'all, yeah
va*sh be like:
would someone please send me back to europe and give the native north americans their land back please, it's for the best of everyone.
Idk if you're joking or not but Land Back advocates do not advocate for white people to be sent back to Europe. So you're just self flagellating and its kind of embarrassing.
I don't think it's necessary to send the whiteys back out of some sense of vengeance or spite or whatever but even though you can give back land, you can't undo genocide. Indigenous people are minorities in their own land and will be for the foreseeable future.
How would you stop the majority of white people from just voting to take back the land or radicalizing into fascists over time? The track records of minority populations trying to keep on top of a majority population is not exactly heartwarming.
We are dense and calorie rich
this is exactly why they’ll get hunted for sport
There are like 70+ million settlers in the us alone, they could literally do a human chain around all native Americans on the continent if they truly think that land back is such an threat. Like calm down.
Start with Kevin Costner.
Also, yes they should.
If you commit evil, evil should be done to you so you can compensate your victims properly.
Doing evil onto evil doesn't "compensate victims" lmao. Retributive justice is poison. It's also worth noting that none of the literature I've read on Land Back stuff advocates for anything like that to be done to settlers. And reperations aren't "doing evil" onto white people.
"B-B-B-but if I don't have muh punishments then muh ebil human nature means soyciety collapse!"Retributive justice is poison.
[https://youtu.be/ELXLxmXM_vw?t=35](My nipples are hard just thinking about it )
We should do reverse conialism where us anglo Americans get sent back to Brittany to claim "disorganized" land there. Just a few guns and I can claim a tescos for my own and start raising cattle there
Brittany is france
pity
The Liberia maneuver
Can I be the Judas Goat
the proper response to this is "yes"
I'm kinda confused by these statements. Was there any real expectation that people would willingly hand over the land they committed genocide for to the victims because we told them so? Would Mexican or Black Americans also need to give back any land?
IMO, the white people in this meme give the correct response. That is exactly what you would have to do to get any land or sovereignty back lol.
Most recolonization projects are geared towards land determination being returned to indigenous groups, an example of this type of determination being violated is the long history of pipelines being brought through or near Native land within this century, as well as mineral/oil rights being fucked over as well and thereby financial proceeds drawn away that would support the community (there's a reason why so many Tribal lands push for casinos is due to the income and jobs that supports the community and creates a tourist economy that is distinctly different from those commonly seen outside of tribal areas (i.e. shitty jobs, worker exploitation, money going towards some out of state LLC). Still though this is one type of interpretation but none that I've seen so far are in the "drive everyone the fuck away from us" and is instead more towards "hey can we not have settler waste shit placed near us or have our resources taken without our knowledge/consent?". Additionally a lot of land near most contested indigenous grounds has been dismantled into larger big AG projects so if that land was taken back it's mainly being taken and redistributed from corporate collectives i.e. fuck Monsanto etc.
Again.... you think capitalist will give you capital because you asked them for it? I mean, I'm in no way saying not to, and I hope you do. I'm sure you'll get a concession or two. But thinking the state will forgore any sovereignty willingly is idealistic. Please tell me if I'm wrong and it's a common practice somewhere. I've just never heard of it outside of the small reservations given already.
When I've had the conversation in the image, it's never had a chance to go anywhere near policy talk. They bring up "But the scary brown people will do a revenge," as soon as you point out that the European colonial project was evil from its inception and remains so
They think morality has something to do with geopolitics, and as soon as you point out the contradiction that "your story's heroes are actually villains" they experience dissonance and try to resolve it by applying their beloved moral symmetry
If that's true, then we should be annihilated balanced against we haven't been annihilated, so that must not be the whole truth. This returns their minds to placidity
When I've had the conversation in the image, it's never had a chance to go anywhere near policy talk.
That's weird because in real life and online, when I've had these conversations, I've tried to immediately ask about policy, but nobody can give me a straight answer.
I just get vague notions like "give the land back" (to who exactly, and how is that decided?) Or allowing indigenous people to have a say in what happens to their land (like, does it become a special autonomous political area in the US? A separate entity all together?)
When I ask these questions, they go to the line from the meme "lol you just think they're gonna genocide you." I don't even live in the US. I'm not JAQing off--I actually want to know, but I have yet to hear one concrete example of what this transition would look like.
Nope! I'm about to do a cannibalism.
Hunting for sport doesn't seem like a realistic expectation, and I haven't read up on the topic at all, but like...
If decolonization is enforced, what happens to people like me who've lived in the country since birth? Do we get sent to Europe, or is it just like a new government sort of deal, or what?
It means the return of the stewardship of this land to the colonized people that are still here fighting for national sovereignty to this day.
No most people aren't going to get deported or anything but I could probably make a long list of ones that should.
It means instead of having the US federal government (or other settler colonial equivalent) as the law of the land, it would be whatever tribal government or nation that you currently reside in. The tribal government would have their own set of laws that you would have to obey and set of customs that you would have to respect. For example, Thanksgiving and the 4th of July aren't happening on any Indigenous land, but there would be replaced with Indigenous holidays that have meaning towards the particular Indigenous nation. Instead of teaching lies like how George Washington didn't have teeth from his Black slaves, history would focus on the history of the particular Indigenous nation.
In terms of the settlers currently living on Indigenous land, most likely they would be a naturalization process where the settlers would be classified as immigrants who have to apply for Indigenous citizenship in order to become a citizen of that particular tribal nation. Current enrolled tribal members would be the original citizens of the decolonized land. Black people would most likely be automatically granted citizenship as well since none of the Indigenous people I follow and works I've read classify Black people as settlers.
As immigrants, the ex-settlers would be granted a set of rights but also barred from various forms of political participation like voting just like immigrants of every other nation. They would have the choice of applying for Indigenous citizenship, and if they qualify for Indigenous citizenship and pass the Indigenous citizenship test, they would be considered an Indigenous citizen under the Indigenous government.
I think people here are confusing citizenship with ethnicity (and race). In a free and sovereign Lakota Republic, you could have a German Lakota in the sense of a Lakota citizen of German descent. Using Hawaii as an example, there were Chinese immigrants who moved to the Kingdom of Hawaii where they were granted Hawaiian citizenship, and when the US illegally annexed Hawaii, the Chinese Hawaiians became Chinese Americans (technically there was a legal limbo since the US didn't grant Chinese people US citizenship so those Chinese Hawaiians were Chinese ?????? for a while). And when Hawaii becomes free and sovereign again, those Chinese Americans would go back to being Chinese Hawaiians.
So... basically just a new government, then.
The immigrant status doesn't make much sense to me, but I guess the indigenous people had to go through something like that when the settlers took the land, so that's fair.
What about all the land belonging to first nations that were completely wiped out? Thinking about the east cost specifically. Do you just give it to the nearest tribe that still has extant members able and willing to form a government? The indigenous political landscape of today bears little resemblence to its historical antecedents. Mostly on account of the genociding. Many cultures have been rolled together into new collective indigenous identities, and they cannot be meaningfully separated back into their pre-colonial constituent parts. Why would anyone besides indegenous people themselves support what you've proposed over the abolition of nation-states entirely, with all land collectively belonging to everyone? Seems like correcting one historical injustice while not meaningfully addressing the failures of the current system, while also introducing a whole new set of problems.