2mo ago

Collapse of Earth's main ocean water circulation system is already happening

www.earth.com Collapse of Earth's main ocean water circulation system is already happening

AMOC is like a massive ocean circulation conveyor belt that moves warm and cold water around the Atlantic. It's failing, and that's very bad.

Don't think I need to summarize this one. This is bad news for everyone.

103 comments

Basically it's too late to stop the process. Even if we switched to renewables entirely, there will be a lag. That lag is now in a positive feedback loop.
- Yeah like the science community was saying 10-15 years ago.
  
  I remember some of the early research showing this when I was in college in the late 90s/early 00s. It's mostly following the worst-case scenario models from the time, except 50 - 80 years ahead of schedule.
  
  If only we knew about this 50 years ago, surely we would have done something!
  Big Oil: side eye Muppet meme
- Not to mention the tipping point where it is no longer reversible. And even worse, the huge effect that the current has on basically the whole of the globe!
- https://youtu.be/pNYp6oc37ds

The Earth will survive and the humans will get what they deserve.
- Millions of species will go down with us, some already have been relagated to extinction by our actions.
  
  The dinosaurs got wiped out and new life flourished. The same will happen again.

earlier than initially projected
There's that phrase again. If only someone had warned us loudly and repeatedly.

So, what does this all mean for us? It means we have even less time to get our act together. Reducing emissions isn’t just a good idea — it’s crucial.
I don't think this will motivate countries to dramatically increase emissions reduction efforts, but I think it will motivate countries to begin geoengineering. Geoengineering is cheaper and easier than rapid emissions reduction, and the results are more immediate. Yes, it doesn't solve the core problem, which is the concentration of GHGs in the atmosphere, but it treats the symptom, albeit temporarily. Why put a lot of time, money, and effort into fixing the core problem when you can spend comparatively less time, money, and effort just treating the symptom? Then you can just pretend the core problem doesn't exist and go about business as usual.
Edit: sorry, I should have added the /s.
- I don't think you realize what a collapsed ocean current means for us. This is existential, not business as usual. Anything we do from here on out that isn't in service of stopping this is signing our species death warrant.
  
  Haha fricking euros enjoying their moderate climate - wait until they find out what’s real Midwest winter is like. And they want to take my truck and my gas stove? Eff them.
  /too many conservatives probably
  
  I'm pretty sure that's already signed, let's be real, nothing is going to happen, we're fucked
- Geoengineering is cheaper and easier than rapid emissions reduction
  I don't know if your whole comment is sarcasm, but every part of this statement is wrong. We are in the very, very early stages of developing the technologies needed for the level of geoengineering required to mitigate what we have already done to the environment. To roll it out to the levels needed would be far more difficult and expensive that converting our entire way of life to renewables, which should really say how hard and expensive it would be given how utterly daunting of a task full conversion to renewables is.
  Now, putting in token investment and paying lip service to geoengineering, that's cheaper and easier than switching to renewables. But that's not even treating the symptoms. That's just your standard con game against the broader population to try to manipulate the conversation.
  
  To roll it out to the levels needed would be far more difficult and expensive that converting our entire way of life to renewables
  The cost of geoengineering solutions has been estimated to be less than $5b/yr, which includes R&D. In other words, this is something that the government of New York City (annual budget: >$100b) could easily do alone without any international support, even in the face of significant opposition.
  In contrast, ending fossil fuel use requires significant international cooperation and is regularly stymied by opposing interests. NYC obviously cannot do it by itself.
  So from a pragmatic perspective, geoengineering is definitely the easiest solution. In fact IMO the lack of progress on emission reduction makes it inevitable, at some point some country will weigh the risks of climate change and take matters into its own hands.
  
  Yes, it was sarcasm. But, I think the push for solar geoengineering, or as some people are calling it "solar radiation management" is coming.
- You tried, but your tone and wording was off. Some people would state all that fully believing things can continue and we'll tech out way out of trouble. And we WILL absolutely jump to geoengineering to try and preserve status quo, cost or not. The alternative is to change society dramatically, and that won't happen voluntarily. And the great news is once we start geoengineering, we dare not stop because the reaction will spike things even worse.

Humanity will be just another dead branch on the tree of life
- Humans are pretty resilient. Adaptable to any climate, even the mess of a climate we created.
  Now, I'm not saying that all 8 billion of us will survive.
  What I'm saying is, the minimum viable genetic population for humans is about 2000 individuals.
  
  When food runs out for even a portion of those 8 billion, results are gonna be nasty.
  It's hard to talk about climate initiatives when 1/3 of the planet is shooting eatch other. In worst case with nukes.
  
  Yep, there will always be humans as long as there is literally anything we can hunt/forage and eat.
  If that will resemble what we perceive as civilisation is another question entirely.
  
  I thought it was 500. I think I even read that 50 might be enough by some estimates.
  
  Right. We survived the ice age with stone age tech.
  Not saying that this makes any of this OK but resilience is absolutely one of humanities highest spec traits.
  
  Humanity is the only species capable of the arrogance required to believe we deserve to endure. Our survival instincts are ultimately self-defeating because we refuse to evolve socially. Instead we make wars and loot resources, rinse and repeat.
- at least its self-pruning

I gotta stop using chrome on my phone 😔
- Firefox mobile supports ublock origin
  
  Only on android unfortunately.
- Mildly fitting though. "Ecological collapse is imminent; please buy more products."
  
  Ecological collapse is imminent; please buy more products
  If there is a better epitaph for Humanity, I have not heard it.
  Can we Laser etch this quote onto the moon's surface before the last human dies please?
  
  The alien visitors to this planet will sort through the ruins of its extinct species and will be told to buy more things. By computers still running, still marketing.
  They will shrug their shoulders and wonder what that means, and if it helped the inhabitants.
- Use Mull.
- Cromite is a good Chromium fork with built-in ad block and privacy features.
  https://github.com/uazo/cromite
- Pihole
  
  Second that. Or at least use adguard.
  
  How do I Pihole, I have an old netbook, can I turn that into one somehow. I hope so because I have one.
  
  Pihole AND uBlock

Summer homes in Europe go up in value. A new market for winter apparel opens too. Just think to the potential market growth. This is going to make a few shrewd entrepreneurs very wealthy. The planet will suffer, but man think of the money.

Huh. That's oddly freeing
"Oh we're all fucked guaranteed. The stress is gone"
I mean, still gonna be for eco measures and such, but it's like a weight is off my shoulders in terms of worry
- It’s not freeing. We may have locked in some really bad changes but it can always get worse. It more critical than ever to get a handle on our green house emissions
  
  It's freeing for me in that, "No matter what, we're at the guaranteed fuck stage. My brain is now freeing up the energy that goes to unproductive worry, and it can now be spared for productive minimization of damage", which I thought was clear with me saying "Still gonna be for eco measures and such"

As a finn, I can live with -40 °C winters, let them come. At least the invading russians will drop dead like flies in the winter. Again.
- as a Canadian, I agree totally. -40 is wayyyy more tolerable than +40. I'll take Hoth over Tatooine any fucking day of the week
  
  As someone who whe experienced both-ish, I tend to agree. There is a point where you just get sick when it's too hot and humid and it's way worse than being cold. Your system just shuts down and you feel so bad, and if you don't get away well you die.
  That said, -35° is the coldest I have lived through and without proper clothing it's not funny being outside! But it beats dying lol.

B-but the oil lobbyists at COP told me amoc won't be affected

We need to be coordinating human effort across the globe on this above all else. China’s the only one taking it seriously right now.
The people defending the US tariffs on imports of Chinese solar panels are engaging in straight up climate change denial. We don’t have time for industry protectionism. Once the currents collapse, food chain collapse will follow shortly.
- China is better in implementing countermeasures than especially the USA (also looking to the dark future ahead) but if they would take it seriously they would need to do quit a bit more especially driving something like a global CO2-tax, but AFAIK they were the ones blocking such measures (not that other nations are much better). THIS would be effective.