We are a lot more alike than we are different
We are a lot more alike than we are different
Most people just want a good life. If we stopped seeing each other as the enemies the world could be better.
Idk one side wants to enslave, murder, and rape. The other does not.
Let's just be friends as they take away my rights and everyone I love rights away, we shouldn't be enemies as they hunt down and murder someone for "existing"
Maybe we shouldn't be friends with the enemy and fight against the regime?
This is one of the was Nazis came into power, by manipulating the mass thinking "oh we should all be friends" and now look what happened.
-a trans non-binary disabled person
There aren't only two sides to every issue. Thinking like that is limiting.
Regardless of how many sides there are, it is an undeniable fact that plenty of people (in the USA in particular, apparently, a majority of the voters) choose to be in (a) side(s) that want(s) to enslave, murder, and rape.
And many others choose to be in (a) side(s) that enable(s) the previous one(s).
No civilised society should accept any of those sides, or those that choose them.
solidarity means solidarity. other working class people are not your enemy (re: 1984). the all or nothing mindset accomplishes nothing besides closing your mind off to the plights and perspectives of others.
-also trans and disabled
As an autistic person, wholly agreed. It is like people are actively trying to isolate and dehumanize us autistic folks.
Idk one side wants to enslave, murder, and rape. The other does not.
Advocating for OP, that's the learnt way they see how they can become comfortable.
Amen.
What the people who want to control us don't want us to realize is that you have a lot more in common with the Chinese/Russian/Ukrainian/Mexican/Indian working class... Factory worker/programmer/hard-working house wife... Then you do with your own political leaders and billionaires. People with servants who don't ever worry about bills. (Biden, Trump, Harris, Vance, Elon, Gates, Bezos, etc)... Don't look at the foreigners as different and the enemy... Look at the Rich and the Politicians (who want us to blame the foreigners)
No war but class war.
Like South Park on religion: "you're all so focused on the stupid little differences that you're not seeing the big, stupid similarities."
The major difference is money. We should be banding together against the rich, but instead we distract ourselves with what we look like, what we sound like, where we come from, what team (sports, town, city, state, country, ...) we support, which sex we have, and a bunch of other things that divide us.
Aliens are here to unite us (/s).
I don't see MAGA people as the enemy because they want to pay less in taxes. I see them as the enemy because they don't think my kids should exist in society and are actively passing legislation to make it so.
Delete this shit take.
It may be more directed at them than you.
Something will be directed at them if they don't knock this shit off.
Username checks out
I only see people as an enemy if they've declared themselves as such. I'm not gonna make the first move, life is too short to make enemies with everyone I meet. That said, if you've got a swastika tattooed on your forehead then I'm gonna take that as a declaration that you're my enemy.
Bro discovered Christianity
True. For example we are all made of
deliciousnutritious meats.nah.
I can't have empathy for fuckheads that want to kill and imprison people based on their sexual preferences or their identity.
I refuse to subject myself to the torture of "working together" with people with fascist ideologies.
I cannot, and will not, coexist with Nazis.
I think op meant more along the lines of normal, everyday people, not radical extremists who hate everyone that isn't like them.
and by normal, I mean non hate driven people. I believe everyone is weird in some way, there is no "normal".
the way I described it to my son is everyone has the same right to be happy as he does, you don't get to dictate that to anyone. we love you for your weirdness and expect the same for anyone else.
White supremacists are not radical extremists in the West, they are the norm. They might be more nuanced than those who display overt bigotry but not by as much as they like to tell themselves.
In many countries most normal people will harass, imprison or kill people based on sexual preference or gender identity.
Just normal people. Not members of any extremist group. Just the guy who is selling groceries or the gal buying them. Most people on this world hate anyone who is different to them.
This is something we all need to remember
Have empathy and realize that people can have there own views. They aren't dumb because they disagree with you
If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge?
I have been struggling with this lately. I am staunchly anti violence and anti war, and yet, I am conflicted on how far I truly would be willing to go to cull classism, fascism, racism, transphobia , homophobia, misogyny, and pedophilia from the world.
These things are abhorrent to me, and I wonder how much of my humanity I'd be willing to sacrifice in exchange for even one of these to no longer being in existence amongst the ranks of humanity.
How much good does pacifism give to the world in promoting the better angels of our nature? How much harm does it do when those same principles allow the worst among us to march down our roads and drag away our loved ones in the night?
Two scenes from media I consume have lately continually resurfaced in my mind. One is this scene from Vinland Saga, where the main character's father confronts him when he finds his sword. The father is about to go off to war, and somberly asks his son who he wants to kill with his father's sword. This culminates with the father, who again, is about to go off to war, emphatically declaring to his son that he has no enemies, that there is no such thing as enemies.
The other is this scene from Star Wars Andor, in which a high level spy of a burgeoning Rebellion is asked by a compatriot (who wishes to quit fighting the Empire due to possibly being found out), asks what he sacrifices for the fight against the Empire. The monologue he delivers is chilling, acknowledging he sacrifices all things that make him human, he becomes like his enemy in order to defeat them. When he reflects on the question, and asks, "So what do I sacrifice? Everything!"
That...is what I believe I will have to give up in order for there to be a sunrise for the people I love tomorrow. I'll have to give up my humanity, everything. And I am afraid. I am selfish. I don't want to. But I don't know any other way.
The feelings that scene stir up in me resonate because that is how I feel when I think on the fascist cancer that has once again metastasized in America. Having no enemies... if only. Truly. Having enemies robs me of my humanity, because in fighting them I must bury my humanity. And I know that once I do that, there's no going back. There will be no redemption.
The thing I am struggling with is... am I the one who makes them my enemies? Or are they? And if the only thing we can agree on is that we are enemies...then what choice do we have when they come for me and those I claim as my kin?
i just wanted to say that what you wrote here is beautiful and it helps me clarify my thoughts. ♥️
I can see uve put a lot of thought into this.
The beauty of being human is that u have free will. U can choose to believe what u want u can choose to do as u wish.
If u claim that someone is ur enemy then they most certainly 100% are ur enemy. If u do not claim this and they claim that u are their enemy then they are not nessasarilly ur enemy. Its a common trope that you create ur own worste enemies iron man trilogy is a great example of this.
If u where no to be "selfish" (to maximise the life of everyone over urself) then u would donate everythibg u had to make the lives of others better untill ur life is equal to that of the lowest person alive whos life u seek to improve. U would give up ur possessions ur food ur drink the organs u can spare u might even commit self immolation. U clearly are not doibg this so therefore u must admit u are on some level "selfish".
U could then say this is a ridiculous thing and that u should live to maximise ur own life over everyone else. U could poison the earth destroy the forests dig oil out of the ground to power ur weapons factory that u sell to both sides of a conflict where each side aims to genocide eachother while u push propaganda to extend this state of affairs. You could disrespect the rights of everyone for ur own enjoyment.
It is ur free will to decide where on this spectrum u wish to be. And wherever u may end up its still selfish to some degree.
Say u can create 1 unit of evil to extinguish 1million units of evil will u do this? What about 1 for 100? 1 for 2? 1 for 1.000001? 1 for 1? In all these cases u arw doing evil and at worse u arent making the world a worse place?
Imo:
I would be willing to do almost anything to achieve my goals
Pacifism simply allows the proactive to take advantage of the weak
1.8million people died of a preventable disease last year and ur worried about ur humanity because u will have enemies and thats gonna undermine ur humanity? Are u willing to ignore 1.8million deaths per year to fight another fight that is multiple orders of magnitude less harmfull? Is this not a selfish act?
People go to war and kill other humans. They berry their humanity to do so does this make them unredeemable? Why would u be any different? U can choose to forgive urself whenever u wish u cannot do somthing u truly believe to be wrong (u can have regrets fron learning new info or be forced to do somthing but then thats not on u) cos then u wpuldnt do it.
I think ur scared that trump is a facist and that hes coming to murder u and ur kin. Relax ur fine u are being used. Ur a usefull idiot for the purposes of promoting a political agenda.
If they do come for you then utilise ur second amendment to do everything that u possibly can and take as many as u can with u.
cull classism, fascism, racism, transphobia , homophobia, misogyny, and pedophilia from the world
One of these is not like the others.
Which one??
Fair enough. To be clear, I am saying I would not like any of these aspects of humankind, not that they are necessarily in any way equivalent. Nor am I trying to necessarily relate them to each other. On their own, I dislike them.
I think if you peel back the ego, the "self" is just obligations that we've made to try to create an "identity" like "I have to draw I'm an artist". "Oh, I have to go to school because I'm a smart person and I don't want to XYZ."
It's all just fluff, or an illusion. If we were to truly be free of all obligations we would find out quickly that we are all the same consciousness wearing different masks. I am me, and I am you, and you are me. If you were to be able to switch perspectives with someone else I'd be surprised if it felt any different than being in your own body.
There is an old saying where I live:
वसुधैव कुटुम्बकम् (Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam)This means, the world is one family.
Yup we're all idiots
Yeah, but also people have very different ideas of what good life is, and what stops them from having it.
Every molecule that makes up our entire existence came from the fusion of a hot star, and no matter what it looks like right now, it will once again be both the precursor and the product of many more stars.
In that regard we are all identical and inconsequential.
Most people seem to want others not to have a good life, ignoring or disregarding the effects that might have on themselves.
Many if not most would sacrifice their own wellbeing if that guarantees that "the right people" will also suffer. They see the world as a zero sum game, and can't conceive the possibility of having a good life if others aren't having a bad one.
Most people suck, often to the point of being monstrous by any decent definition.
most
Source?
I'm pushing back on this viewpoint wherever I'm seeing it. Humans are certainly flawed in a lot of ways, especially in how easy it can be to mislead us, but this cynical worldview that most people are actively wanting others to hurt is not based in reality. Honestly it sounds like me when I was in the depths of depression.
I think we have a major problem with how we share and consume news. Stories are shared as screen-capped headlines that emphasize the Bad thing that happened, and even if you find the original article, it's stuffed with ads that make you not want to bother. Random one-off bad/stupid things that one person did somewhere far away are reported as world news without statistics and context.
The result? Increasing cynicism. The good, uplifting stories rarely come through. People begin to base their worldview and how they interact with other people on this "fact" that most people suck. This culminates in them becoming the thing that they think everyone is - they go through life scared of or angry at other people by default.
It isn't an inevitability. Maybe I'm wrong, but believing in people is a much better existence, even when they occasionally let me down.
A life of experience being different to people surrounding is my source.
I suppose you can check mental health statistics on people who is different to the group they are living with and see how they are doing.
Also literally most countries legislation legislates against different people with plenty population support.
People is awful.
To paraphrase an old saw, there is nobody as mean as all of us
Some are fascists. Some are not. That's a pretty big distinction.
I'm not sure that's true. One side has empathy. The other does not. I don't want to be friends with someone who doesn't have empathy.
The world is not binary like that. Your side is not all good and the other side is not all bad.
I didn't say they were "all bad." I said they lacked empathy and I wasn't interested in being friends with them.
Conservative and progressive brains are different.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/conservative-and-liberal-brains-might-have-some-real-differences/And one of those differences is empathy. https://academic.oup.com/scan/article/18/1/nsad029/7175525
I kind of see your point there. My hope though is that maybe people could gain more empathy for each other by understanding that we are all human and I hope that one day people can understand each other's struggles.
They see the world as a zero sum game. They can't imagine being happy unless someone else is unhappy.
Paradox of tolerance
I think of people who vote for bad politicans as useful idiots.
The average voter actually believe trump will make things better. There are people to somehow still believe trump isnt a racist. I don't know whats going on with their brains.
Like, of course there are those who are bigots and want more bigotry in government, but there are also many who are not exactly hateful racists or misogynists, they simply aren't that smart and easily get swayed by social media posts.
Think of them as victims of a scam (well, except that this is a on a much bigger scale and have more serious consequences 🙁)
I mean I don't expect people to forgive them for what they voted for, I mean I personally would have a hard time being around those types of people, but like, would you tell your grandparents: "It's your fault you got scammed"
I feel like a hypocrite for saying this, because on an emotional level, I hate hate everyone who voted for the fascist. But then when I think about the situation with my rational part of my brain, I realize people are just idiots and fall victim to the fascist scam. Its not necessary the person, but its that this is what our species is. A biological machine that although capable of rational thought, can still be easily manipulated.
Yelling at a person and telling them that they are stupid isnt gonna get them out of the scam, but talking to them might.
We aren't in a civil war yet, there might still time for dialogue.
No. Some people want to control other people because of their various sky daddies or a simple greed. And those are the ones fucking up your life. Everyone else could more or less get along, but fanatics, billionaires and other people hungry for control of others are actively make sure we don't.
fanatics
Half of Lemmy users included in that group
Nah.
A life of experience tells me most people is awful, and will have zero regards on making your life miserable for whatever reason they see fit.
People is generally bad, they just are like that. My simple existence is hated and ilegal in most of the word. Most of people in this planet wish me death without even knowing me just because how I am.
You make this argument and it immediately falls apart because people revert to "Well they want to do this, this, and this, so they actually are an enemy"
You see it here in these very comments. If you are different from the "normal" you will eventually be hated, regardless of whoever is in power. It is human nature. It has not changed, it will not change.
People, families, tribes, nations have risen to power and subsequently lost power. It's cyclical and will continue until we are inevitably wiped out by ourselves or the universe.
I mean we hunted and fucked neanderthals to extinction just because they looked like us but not exactly like us.
Yeah it's a nature thing
"I am vry smrt. Boog Brian here"
When someone wants to take away my freedoms or human rights. they are the enemy.
what you said is like telling a rape victim that they didn't ask if their rapist consented to raping them and so they asked to be raped because they didn't confirm they were indeed being raped.
wtf is wrong with people. bad people do bad things. punch bad people in the face and get it over with. we don't need to understand why they did it. fuck them up.
I don't see the need for insults.
These "human rights" were given to you by the current established powers. When those powers change the definition of good and bad do so as well. That was the intended message of my original comment.
It is naive to say "we don't need to understand why they did it" when, taking your stance here, it's imperative in preventing the "enemy" from taking away your "freedoms". But I see it differently, take one of my favorite quotes: "You judge yourself based on your own intentions, and judge everyone else on their actions". Call it optimistic, but I don't believe most people intend to cause harm, but make their choices based on their experiences and understanding of the matter.
So, I feel it's ridiculous to proclaim anyone as enemy, especially withstanding their reasoning. But you do not have to agree with this.
This is true, but some of us are actually very different. That's not always a bad thing, either.
Yes, it gets problematic as soon as extreme positions and mentalities enter the equation. All extrem positions are toxic, extreme left, extreme right, extreme religious (any religion), extreme fans of a sports club, extreme anything doesn't matter.
If we could find some kind of balance, some true middle ground without huge extremes, then the world would be a much nicer place.
Or maybe work more on joint legislation
The way it works now is that each party eventually gets control and reverts previous legislation. Instead they should focus on passing more laws that are more agreeable to both sides.
My comment was more in general for all of society, not only political parties.
But yes, for political parties that would be great!
And someone says they are a trump supporter and suddenly its all just calling everyone a fascist time.
You know what, you're totally right. There's plenty of other accurate single-word descriptions that could be used to add some more variety:
Shortsighted, dogmatist, sociopath, mysognist, bootlicker, Neanderthal, degenerate, cultist, egotistical, simpleton, supremacist, etc.
They get really mad when you point out that Harris is also fascist by there definition.
In reality they are in a echo chamber where they only see good things about Harris and bad things about Trump
Democrats can be considered fascists by their own definition, but let's not pretend MAGA is any less of an echo chamber. On zero hands, I can count the number of times that a MAGA member actually knew anything about gender affirming healthcare while arguing with me why it shouldn't exist.
The only thing that should matter is the candidates representing both sides are corrupt trash that put the interests of their multimillionaire friends and corporate lobbyists over their own constituents.
