these folks sure are quiet these days
these folks sure are quiet these days
i can't even guess as to why they went quiet. not one guess at all. we will never know.
edit: well they're not quiet now once they get called out
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There sure are a lot of people trying to blame the left because their strategy of appealing to the middle failed.
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Well yeah, otherwise they’d have to consider actually changing their shit strategy
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Even after all this the DNC are already bowing down to the fascist position because they lost because they were “too woke”.
This is when the democrats were already running a far right platform of “we want to fund the police, not defund them”, following Trump’s border policy, “most lethal army”, “Israel must expand its borders”, “I’ll have a Republican in my cabinet”. And they weren’t “woke” at all. Kamala threw trans people in the trash saying “we’ll follow the law” when it comes to trans issues. It was the Republicans who were running hundreds of millions of dollars worth of attack ads on trans people and democrats weren’t saying shit.
The DNC have once again failed to learn and are looking for a “centrist” chair, doing exactly the same thing of shutting down leftist voices and trying to appeal to and compromise with the fascists instead of listening to people like Bernie and AOC.
You’d think after they utterly failed and managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and get an out and proud fascist elected they would finally learn that they need to address the real issues that affect all working class people.
The ratchet effect is real.
The Republican critique of the democrats is kind of right in a way in that they are just the same rich people not doing anything about the cost of living and only using identity politics to “virtue signal”. They’re right wingers with rainbow flags. That doesn’t do much for oppressed minorities except make us the target of attacks. What would benefit queer and other oppressed minorities more is build a society in which we can afford homes to live in, food to eat, access to healthcare. But they want to make it all about pronouns because that is easy for them to look like they’re someone “on the left”, when economically they’re not on the left at all.
There’s really no hope with the DNC. We just need to organize in our own communities because the democrats certainly aren’t coming to save anyone.
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Ignore, misread parent
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Idk. I’m sure the cheneys endorsement brought out dozens of voters.
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Couldn't have said it better. This post is pure cringe but the op is a perfect example of why Democrats lost.
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Naaah. What’s cringe are the smug pseudo-intellectual “trolley problem” gEnOciDe accusers that didn’t do shit but sit on their thumbs while the rest of us tried to save democracy.
Now they all get to blame the people that acted while smugly admitting that they chose not to?
An estimated 90 million people chose not to vote. Of those 90 million were third party supporting clowns that chose not to vote because they knew their candidate didn’t stand a chance. Also among those 90 million were protest-voting clowns that chose not to vote because their last two remaining brain cells were too busy fighting over third place.
There is ZERO logic or intelligence in accusing the people that actually tried and did something to avoid a shitty outcome while arrogantly having not done jack shit about it.
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There sure are a lot of people that didn’t do jack shit and think they have a place to blame anyone.
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Canadian, voted for left wing party that had the best chance of winning despite the leader being a gilded spoon brat who couldn't lead his way out of a wet paper bag.
I did my fucking part. All you wannabe progressives in the US had to do was vote to keep the Nazi out of office and you couldn't even do that.
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I wasn't super fond of the democrat's platform either man, but I definitely wanted Not Fascism and Some Semblance of Human Rights to win.
Now we have nothing, and I have to make plans to figure out how to get my girlfriend out of the country if she ever needs reproductive care. Great job!
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Well hopefully blaming progressives instead of the people who actually voted for trump makes you feel better at least?
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News flash, neoliberals are already fascist, they are just better at hiding it. They even endorsed Dick fucking Cheney.
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I'm not convinced the left was ever going to show up for any candidate. They're already castigating Bernie, of all people. They've already purged AOC.
From what I learned it seems there is absolutely no limit to the amount of purity testing that seems to happen on the left. In the meantime, Republicans are marching us lockstep into direct fascism. So we can't get anything done because none of the dnc candidates are perfect. Meanwhile, Republicans literally have no standards.
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Um. Leftists vote at the highest rate of any polity.
There's just not many of us.
The DNCs "standards" weren't impressive to millions of center / center-left voters who voted for Biden.
Probably because they nakedly shilled themselves to anyone with a checkbook. Had no stances, offered no solutions, and came across as wildly out of touch.
Imagine how a tax credit for first time home buyers sounds to someone who can't afford groceries.
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If the left would rather have Trump than a centrist Harris government, the left deserves blame
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It's not the left but everyone else that didn't vote for her either.
The left is just an easy target cause we pointed out her flaws and people think by doing that we somehow made her flaws real.
Clearly a huge amount of people had issues with her or she would have won more votes. It's like Trump thinking if we stopped testing for COVID it would stop happening.
If the leftists shut up Harris just would have lost in silence.
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Their main failure was choosing a half black, half Indian women as their candidate. That in it self is 3 failures. You can have ONE of those things. 2 is highly improbable, 3 is impossible.
This has nothing to do with how I think Harris will perform as president but more to do with how racist and misogynistic this country is.
I truly thing Walz would have done better at the polls.
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Her rallies were massive and she was polling 10%+ ahead of Trump when she was seen as progressive.
When she went full blue dog and parroted the same strategy Clinton failed with in 2016, the advantage evaporated and she started polling at or under Trump.
Falsely attributing the failure to misogyny solves nothing.
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It's so weird. Gaza is extremely important and deserving of the attention. It's genocide, and it's horrific. But is no one else important? Because we can't save Gaza immediately, it's really better to set outselevs on fire so we can burn together? Like, real talk, Harris will be fine. Biden will be fine. It's our friends and neighbors who are going to be deported, harassed, laid off, homeless and scared for a minimum of four years.
I wouldn't say they're gone though. I've been down voted, told "my kind/type" are all talk, or that I'm okay with murder, I voted for genocide, the usual. But I couldn't sit and do nothing.
But I guess this is what they wanted. The dems have been taught a lesson, we're moving headfirst into a dictatorship, and Gaza is no safer, but their conscious is clear, somehow.
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I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they are Isreali or Russian psy ops accounts (or at least useful idiots that have bought the psy ops).
When the war started, Lemmy was overrun by the "criticism of Isreal is antisemetic" accounts. That was rejected pretty hard. Those guys disappeared, and the "never genocide" people took their place.
It almost seems like a change in tactics to achieve the same goal.
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the “criticism of Israel is antisemitism” accounts are gone because they were banned. Zionism and the insistence that a genocidal state is indivisible from an entire ethnic group is racism, and against most instance’s TOS.
“never genocide” content does not break TOS and so has lasted since october 7th through today. to the uninformed eye this dynamic might look like a change in tactic but really it’s just two different groups, one which got banned after a few days or weeks and one which did not.
just correcting your “change in tactics”/“it’s astroturfing” narrative. i don’t think it holds up in comparison to a much more likely explanation, and i might even use the word ludicrous to describe your argument unless you can provide further evidence.
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“criticism of Isreal is antisemetic” accounts. That was rejected pretty hard. Those guys disappeared, and the “never genocide” people took their place.
So let me get this straight... you think that hasbara accounts turned into anti genocide accounts.. thats your brilliant theory? they just all switched sides?
I dont even know what to say to logic like that.
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Absolutely! There is no doubt. Such fallacies is what they do. Mostly they go with "they are all the same", then take an absolute approach attack on the principles of the left(er) political party.
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I appreciate the level headed take.
Because we can’t save Gaza immediately
What do you mean by this? That the president can't or that voters can't because their choice is voting genocide or worse genocide?
The dems have been taught a lesson
Based on the response of the media, and elected democrats, no they haven't lol. They're blaming the left.
but their conscious is clear, somehow
I think this is reductive and does not acknowledge why many people did not vote democrat.
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What do you mean by this? That the president can't or that voters can't because their choice is voting genocide or worse genocide?
In my opinion, the genocide was not anywhere on the ballet. There was no feasible choice. I don't think we had a choice to save Gaza immediately on 11/5. I'd rather fight for people in our regular shit then have to fight for people in whatever hell Trump is planning.
Based on the response of the media, and elected democrats, no they haven't lol. They're blaming the left.
Maybe we're not seeing the same articles? Don't get me wrong, I do see people blaming leftist/liberals/Russian bots, etc. But the I've seen posts and articles about how the dems fail the working class and looking over why they were abandoned. Sanders has been very vocal about the dems failure, and he's not the only one. Not saying there's no blame on the campaign, I've just seen both 🤷🏿♀️
I think this is reductive and does not acknowledge why many people did not vote democrat.
I don't think so. I didn't see this election as "dems VS rep." I saw this as a vote to stop facisim. There was no vote I could make that day that was going to stop the genocide in it's tracks. I didn't believe that not voting was going to make anything easier. I see tons of, "Well, what will your compromise on? How many people can be killed before you say enough is enough?" I don't feel like I compromised, because that makes it seem like I had a say, at least by 11/5. I wasn't like, "okay, I'll allow genocide if they keep abortion rights." It was, "One person is asking for a ceasefire, but not making a clear statement against the genocide and continues to say she'll continue what Biden is doing," and "One person has told me he will give Israel the okay to turn Gaza into a crater, as well as make any future progress or change exponentially more difficult, and will harm anyone he doesn't like." Why would I pick the latter? The kid who can't afford lunch didn't put me in this position, nor did the teenager bleeding in the parking lot. It feels like they were so focused on teaching the Dems a lesson that they forgot the consequences won't affect the politicians, it'll affect us. All of us, whether we like it or not.
I feel more helpless about Gaza then I did before the election. The recent meetings in my area have been down right depressing because we know it's just going to be so much harder. And it's upsetting that it feels like it didn't have to.
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I guess we could start saying to those people “I guess you hate LGBT” and “you’re complicit with refugees being deported” and “good job putting the last nail in the coffin of reproductive rights”. I mean, somehow they couldn’t say shit about those issues, just “OMG JOR BIDEN GENOCIDE” and ignored that letting Trump take office would be worse for Palestine as well as terrible about the aforementioned issues. Odd.
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We didn't ignore those issues child. They were directly related to gaza. A willingness to throw palestinians under the genocide steam roller is the same as the willingness to throw LGBT+, etc.
Hell harris couldn't even speak plainly about transgender medical care. The only reason she didn't do it is because she thought that would lose her the election where the Palestinians wouldn't.
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It's our friends and neighbors who are going to be deported, harassed, laid off, homeless and scared for a minimum of four years.
Already happening under biden. 🙄
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I mean yes that's true... but we already know the pattern, Trump is going to quintuple the pace and extremeness of it. The next democrat to win (if one ever does again), will continue the status quo set by the previous republican, possibly slightly reduce the acceleration of it (while still allowing it to accelerate).
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Out of curiosity, what wouldn't you be willing to compromise on? If I had a party wanting to kill your mom and dad and another who just wants to kill your dad, would you make that compromise?
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Perhaps a better, real-world example is that this moral calculus says that the Democrats should abandon trans people and trans issues. The logic is inescapable: Trans issues turn away a lot of voters, and it's a really strong talking point for the other party. If they win, the Democrats could protect the LGB community, and women's rights.
Surely it's better to protect the LGB community and women's rights, but not trans people, than to protect none of them, right?
(NB: This is rhetorical. I don't believe it.)
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Real Talk, I'm getting real tired of everyone from the vaguely right of center to the farthest reaches of the left getting involved in this shit slinging blame game.
I legit don't care anymore who you voted for (edit: so long as it wasn't Trump I mean. But even then, time to start your redemption arc if you did). We are past the election and now all share the same immediate issues.
Folks who abstained from voting (or voted 3rd party) because you couldn't stomach the lesser of two evils, good news, that choice is gone. You can stop parroting the idea that anyone who voted Blue did so "in support of genocide". It should be clear by now those who voted Blue really were just doing their best in a bad situation, they are not your enemies.
Folks who voted Blue because you believe supporting the lesser evil is in service of the greater good. Good news, that burden is also gone. You can stop parroting the idea that someone who can't stomach voting for people who would play politics with genocide is really just a tankie or a bot. Not every one is willing to play game theory with people's lives, that doesn't mean they are your enemies.
Anyone who truly wants to push for solidarity and human rights for all is an ally of mine. And I propose we bury the hatchet, preferably in the objectives of fascists, before its too late.
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They're easy targets. Blame the abstainers and third party voters and you don't have to confront the legitimate failures of your party and campaign.
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That's very true, and we see it election cycle after election cycle. But for many who voted Blue, the Dem's are not "their party". They were playing the best hand they were dealt in a terrible situation. And while I get feeling sick to your stomach over playing that hand when the chips are peoples lives, I also get the cold calculus some people are willing to make for the greater good.
Frankly, Abstainers and Lesser Of Two Evil Voters have been, imho, radicalized against each other due to the contentious nature of the election. I don't believe the camps were so separate a year ago.
If we all want to keep dying on this hill, well we certainly can and will. But I've talked to folks on both sides, and they largely want the same outcomes. Even if we all didn't agree on the solution.
The election proved that divided we are not a larger group than the fascist collation in this country. But I'm willing to be combined we are.
And we don't have to argue over the election anymore, so unless we want to find another hill to die on, I once again propose we agree with pushing towards are shared goals.
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I am willing to move forward with centrists as coalition partners with the left-- only because neither of us can win alone, but after this election they have to come to the table as coalition partners, NOT leaders.
Progressives need to leave the Democratic party. Voters know that neither progressives or centrists have the numbres to win alone, but Progressives have popular issues to run on, and centrists have nothing but hisorical momentum thats stopped pretty cold at the moment. All the "anyone but trump" people will still be there next election (assuming there is one) and they will vote for leadership that is promising good things. And progressives will win. So I say lets formally split, and if the centrists come along theyd be welcome, and if they'd rather go it alone then they should get used to losing because they have no other future.
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For long term political goals, I'm fully on board with you.
For immediate resistance to fascism, we are already all on the same side, or so I hope.
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I think it is important to point out the failings of others. Otherwise they may not connect the dots and learn from their mistakes.
Sometimes a mistake is innocent, say you forgot to zip up your fly. It’s important to know you forgot to do so as it could be very socially embarrassing.
Sometimes one could accidentally cut someone off in traffic because they didn’t see them. A good honk notifies them of their mistake and will hopefully drive home the fact that they probably need to pay better attention to traffic.
Pointing out that abstaining and or choosing not to vote enabled the election of the greater of two evils is equally important.
Rock on OP. Never let them forget!
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Then point at the FAILED DEMOCRAT PARTY instead of voters. When biden announced he was running for re-election their own internal polling showed he’d lose. They don’t fucking care, it’s all theatre to them. Their corporate owners are happy and the donations continue to flow in from foolish rubes like you who will gladly vote blue no matter who right off a fucking cliff.
Kamala Harris spent a billion dollars and still fucking lost. But yeah go blame voters that will ensure the same thing happens in 2028 should we be so lucky to pretend to play democracy again. And it is pretend. Because if you don’t vote correctly you’re the worst person to ever exist.
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This might actually be the single best comment in this thread.
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I'd rather keep up the blame game, ngl. Arguments didn't work on the disingenuous pricks who helped get us here. I don't care if they personally made a difference or not, I care that they were utterly unreasonable, and the change in circumstances won't change that.
Speaking to anyone who could've voted for Kamala but didn't: I don't care about solidarity anymore; you didn't have solidarity with us when we needed you. Y'all are fucking stupid and I don't want to deal with that. I realize that's not the moral choice, but RN for the first time in over a decade I don't care about that. I'm angry. Maybe in a few more days or weeks or months that will change, maybe not. Right now I'm focusing on making sure all my remaining friends are able to get somewhere safe if the need arises and keep hope kindled in their hearts. Maybe that means other people who need my help more will suffer, die, or fall victim to their own despair, but I just don't have the wherewithal to make that my priority.
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I don’t care about solidarity anymore
Never did. Solidarity means you aren't willing to sacrifice marginalized groups to get ahead or save your own skin. If you accept sacrificing Palestinians, you'd accept sacrificing any other group by the exact same "lesser-evilist" logic. What value does that kind of "solidarity" have?
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Sounds like you have your hands full dealing with getting you and yours to safety. Good luck, I wish you all the best in that endeavor!
I can't blame you for being angry, but just try not to let that anger turn you into the thing you are angry at. Someone who stands idly by when someone needs help you could provide.
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On this platform specifically we've had months of smug people claiming to make the moral choice of directly or indirectly supporting the clearly worse choice. It's far too early to just let that slide.
If we in 100 years still sometimes talk about the early days of the fediverse where a bunch of morons fell for astroturfing, that's kind of a good outcome.
If they're real people they should feel bad.
For the not so real people, we should figure out how a distibuted system can deal with a concerted astroturfing operation.
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On this platform, we have also had genuine people struggle with supporting a system and party that directly cause harm, even if it would cause less harm then the alternative. And many of them went from struggling with finding the right choice, to full on radicalization towards abstaining because of the smug posting of people on this platform who acted as if it was stupid or evil for them to struggle with their moral compass.
I get that everyone feels very strongly about their positions in this, and that these feelings are directly tied to our personal beliefs.
But the reality is, those who abstained and those who voted Blue share many fundamental beliefs. And we can either let this election be the hill we all collectively die on, or we can let bygones be bygones and stand united to help those we still can.
And here is the kicker, it may feel good to say those who came to a different conclusion than you should "feel bad", but if you do, you will be guilty of the same sin you so strongly accuse them of.
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Friendly reminder that Joe Biden is still the president and could stop sending weapons to Israel right now if he wanted to. But he doesn't.
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Thank god Trump is taking over right.
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Your candidate couldn't promise to stop sending weapons to an active genocide. That one thing to you would of won her the election and you still don't blame her for not doing it? Crazy logic. Guess you too really wanted to continue that genocide. Taking it off the table isn't even an option to you.
I am being rhetorical. Of course you probably don't support the continued genocide of the Gazan people. But the democrats inability to give it up themselves lost the election. And you wanna be mad at random online leftists instead of that. It feels like you haven't really considered what happened and more are just angry and lashing out. Take care of yourself friend and think about who lost this election and why.
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Yeah, maybe the liberals who were out to brunch for the last four years might suddenly start giving a shit again. JK who am I kidding, the only thing liberals are capable of is marching around with signs peacefully while pissing their pants.
As ineffectual as the democrat party they simp for. Pathetic.
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I don't know how government works or what laws are.
Yeah we can tell.
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Imagine being this confidently wrong.
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Dems failed and people who abhor genocide unfortunately had little to do with it, though listening to Lemmy libs you'd think they personally destroyed her campaign
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They need someone to blame. Taking on blame themselves for ignoring voters? That's preposterous! Those votes are clearly owed in the democracy that they're the saviors of.
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I have been seeing this online, leftist, superposition where people not voting Democrat, to protest the genocide, are not a significant enough portion of the vote, to have tanked the election for the DNC, and that enough of the 15 million who sat out clearly did so due to the genocide, to make them lose. I have seen it argued both ways from a number of the same people, in different threads, when the messaging behind either, works in their favor. No these people are not russian bots, they have been around lemmy, doing normal poster stuff, for a while now. They just want to not take any blame, and also claim their issue was far more universally important than it was.
"My vote for Jill Stein/My non vote for protest/etc. isn't what killed her chance, it was people being mad about other things the DNC didn't do well!" Then, on another post, seeing the same user name, "15 million people wouldn't have sat out had they stopped supporting Israel!"
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All the third party votes combined and given only to swing states would still end with trump winning.
Wake the fuck up. The democrats lost because they fucking suck. stop blaming voters for your elitist out to brunch pathetic excuse of a political party that’s been gaslighting the public for four years about inflation telling us not to believe our own lying eyes and how great!!!! the economy is doing I mean look at these numbers!!! But these people are the type who going to work means going golfing to rub shoulders with the rest of the elite. They’re fucking clueless.
And they’re bleeding us dry with taxes while sending ALL of that money over to Israel and Ukraine. Meanwhile we have homeless starving people over here and they throw their hands up and say there’s no money. Fuck them and all their stupid ass brunch going laptop class never worked a real day in their life supporters too hung up on getting their pronouns right to actually come up with a platform that appeals to voters. “We’re not trump” is not a fucking platform. I hate trump but there is absolutely no question that these past four years I’ve been struggling far more economically under Biden than trump. Democrat party operatives too busy sniffing their own farts to read the fucking room.
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Kamala lost more because of the economy than because of Gaza. But if people want to blame protest voters, and they really, really do, then I'm happy to take advantage of that narrative because that claim only helps us by suggesting that we weild more influence than we do and are more important to win over than we are. I'm happy to point out that they're wrong because I'm an honest person, but if they really want to push a narrative about how important and influential my faction is, then I mean, I'll take it. "Never interrupt your enemy when they're making a mistake." Plus pointing out the fact that they're only helping us is probably more likely to get them to stop than trying to appeal to the facts.
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people not voting Democrat, to protest the genocide, are not a significant enough portion of the vote, to have tanked the election for the DNC
a) yeah people are saying this.
enough of the 15 million who sat out clearly did so due to the genocide
b) no one is saying this except people who are so misinformed that they would deny a) anyway. you’re attributing the words of two separate groups of people to everyone in that group.
edit: sorry for the false assertion, corrected
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It's both. Many, many issues have 15 people who can explain what they don't like and try to do something about it, and then 15 million people who don't like the same thing but can't explain it, won't try, only vote when they feel like it, and will never see any scolding you try to do.
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Throwing your vote in the trash is a vote for garbage, and garbage won by a landslide.
The garbage voters really hate to hear it.
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And liberals really hate to hear that the democrats ran a garbage campaign. Shit goes both ways my dude. Expand your viewpoint and try to consider why someone would be unable to vote for Harris instead of calling them idiots.
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I wholely and completely reject every premise you propose here.
- Everyone who voted for Kamala knew it was a shit campaign. She started what like 100 days before the election? It's incredible she ran a campaign at all! No one hates to hear this, it's reality, and everyone knew it was coming the second Biden stepped down.
- Shit does not go both ways. Shit comes out of your ass, sometimes your mouth, and should never go the other way. If you are having medical issues where shit regularly goes both ways, please go see a doctor.
- Every single point against Kamala, except for one, is a worse point for our new dear orange leader. Want less skeletonized Palestinian kids? You definitely don't want Trump in office. If you did anything to help that asshole become our new dear leader, then you absolutely didn't give a shit about Palestine. OR, and here's the real point, you believed some combination of bespoke bullshit convincing your absolutely dead brain you were making a good choice. And that assumes you're even being genuine, and no trolling or shilling. If it was the latter (and it was absolutely the latter, don't lie) then you're an idiot.
No one was "unable" to vote for Kamala. It made them uncomfortable. If they had read anything from outside their echo chamber, maybe they could have worked past that. Some of them decided to not vote at all, or vote third party, and all that did was make it easier for her to lose.
Still at least you contribute to the conversation. The real tragedy is all those millions that looked up from TikTok when they saw a Mariah Carey meme just long enough to realize it's not October anymore and oh look an ad...
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Blame the at most 2 million or so antigenocide protestors, instead of the 75 million who voted for Trump. Considering Harris was short 8 million votes, it didn't really matter.
Blame Trump voters first, but also blame Harris for running a dog shit campaign where she leaned right to pickup Republicans, and ended up picking up zero R voters while completely alienating the progressives and losing 14 million votes from Biden's 2020 performance.
The Dems don't seem too upset though. They would rather lose to the republicans than let progressives have any sort of power.
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It is not only that she ran to the right but she did so with Liz Cheney who represents the old guard that is no longer trusted by them. She is nothing but a liability and is moreso indicative of the rot in the establishment which seems to identify more with Republican-lite than anything the rank and file of the party wants. That same establishment is trying to decide which minority to throw under the bus now rather than own up to their failures.
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Yeah, the young MAGAts I work with don't like that old crew of Rs. People like Cheney campaigning with Harris was another reason for them to vote for Trump. Sane people know the whole "drain the swamp" thing is bullshit but a lot of his supporters buy that bullshit, and Cheney is definitely a swamp creature.
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Numbers don't lie but the people who post what OP posted sure do.
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She needed a little over 230k (at last count) in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.
Edit: And the total popular vote gap is down to ~2.65mm.
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I agree with you except for the blaming Trump voters part. I'm not going to pretend I think anyone who voted for Trump was informed or made a good decision, but I have some understanding of how they got to that decision.
Libs blaming voters are almost certainly: young, college educated, and privileged. I too am all those things, but I've tried to expose myself to the experiences of people who are much different than me. In doing so I've learned how their learned experiences inform their politics, and how someone like Harris (and the democratic party in general) did absolutely nothing to appeal to them.
Trump acknowledged their suffering and gave them a scapegoat to blame. Harris did not counter that narrative, she did not acknowledge their suffering, and she did not offer them anything that might improve their lives. All she had to offer was the idea that Trump was a fascist. She was right obviously, but Trump being a fascist is an abstract concept to understand, "immigrants are making your life worse" is very easy to digest.
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I think this is a pretty good take. Aligns fairly well with this podcast, which seems like the clearest view I've heard so far.
The Ezra Klein Show: The Book That Predicted the 2024 Election
https://nytimes.com/2024/11/09/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-patrick-ruffini.html
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I blame both; the Trump voters, and the self described "leftists," for not voting against fascism (which is in direct opposition to progressiveness and leftism). I think it's really stupid to argue about it at this point though too. Greater than 50% of the USA is fucking stupid.
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That’s not how voting works in the US.
Anyway, not sure what was confusing about this post but it comes down to a far smaller number of votes in specific states, not the nationwide popular vote.
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she didn't "lean right" if she was leaning "right" she would be supporting economically conservative ideals, or socially conservative ideals. Curiously trans people and Keynesian economics are not conservative so.
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So let me get this straight:
The Democratic Party snubs the left— even the progressives. They court the right wing, parading the Cheneys around.
The democrats lose.
The rightwing voters get riled up by the mask-off hatred, while their politicians straight up lie to Muslims and Latino people, winning some of their votes.
The democrats lose ground across the board. Their entire turnout was depressed. No matter how many times they learned their views were losing them votes, they refuse to budge on the issues they were undoubtedly wrong about. The fuckin meme says “we didn’t vote for genocide!!!” We can all agree voting…for genocide is…bad, right?
And you’re blaming the people who were ignored and told once again to go fuck themselves? Because they couldn’t stomach voting for people publicly and unflinchingly supporting the genocide.
Not the lying fascists, not the losing party for being told they were going to fail and still failing?
This is exactly how you continue to fail and lose to fascists.
And im telling you right now. History won’t look back and say “those fools! They didn’t vote because of a teensy little genocide!” They will say “all of those people stood by while a holocaust was happening.”
Not a doubt in my mind.
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The party of self reflection 😂
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when do we mention that this exact phenomenon is what happened globally across the world and is probably irrelevant to both politics and parties representing them?
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How did letting Trump win help to end genocide? In what way does having an administration that literally says Palestine shouldn't exist and Israel should finish the job and kill all the Palestinians inprove the situation?
When there's a fire, something should be done about it, absolutely. But allowing Trump to wind the Presidency is adding gasoline, wind, and dynamite to the Palestinian fire while also unleashing firebombs on Iran and murdering the fire brigade in Ukraine.
How do you reconcile allowing all this death with your principles?
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Had nothing to do with it.. or at least insignificantly. The Dems on a platform of "were not him" and the economy is booming.. while people where hurting and got shafted by the wave of devaluation.. people are angry.. and the let's keep going on the same path and change nothing and so nothing party did not get people out to vote.
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It's possible the idea that they ran a "not Trump" campaign is true enough, and that was part of the failure vs. being more to the left or vocal or any number of other things suggested. But the very fact that "not Trump" made people not show up and throw the election to him, or worse vote FOR him, says a lot about the state of the country.
I get it, people are hurting economically and somehow get blinded into promises that magic will happen. But Trump? Anyone voting this time around was around when he was in office the first time...are we that short memory? Yeah, we apparently are...repeating the same thing over and over expecting different results. And that can be applied to both sides, but one of them was the same guy.
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I think you, someone who probably keeps up on the news and outrage and etc. are overestimating how much others do.
People are absorbed in their day to day life. Trump's gonna appoint RFK to a health leadership position? That's a far away concept with only vague implications for people who are having to take payday loans for the first time to make rent. Harris didn't truly run a campaign of hope and change like '08 Obama.
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Well it appears they'll never figure that out and intend to lose more so in 4 more years.
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The 2024 presidential election was like a really hairy credit card bill. Republicans ran on a platform of ignoring the debt all together and not making any payment at all, letting it get further out of hand. Democrats got blasted for proposing to make a minimum payment that did nothing toward interest. Neither choice was going to get us out of debt. But one of the choices is definitely going to bankrupt us. We could have made a payment. Now we're in way over our head instead.
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The only people making noise are the centrists looking to blame everyone but themselves for a sweep of all the levers of government, and a gradual loss of the judiciary that will doom the republic. It was an epic asswipping of historic proportions with you lot leading and owning the losing strategy. You dont even have the diginity to be embarrassed about it.
You geniuses lost voters across every single demographic except college educated whites, flatly ignored the economic hardship of the lower and middle class and told people they were delusional to talk about it, and on top of that they enabled and participated in obvious far right war crimes. You lost minority and youth support and trust across the board. And you have no way of earning it back beyond your same tired playbook of being slightly better than Trump, on just a few issues.
Even if Harris had done the right, legal, moral thing and indicated she'd halt the shipments, she still would have lost on her idiotic low-polling economic policy that polled the same as Joe Bidens presidency. So you all supported war crimes and soiled the dem name for basically no gain at all. You doomed the republic, soiled the global understanding of "democracy", and showed the western world order to be a hollow shell of what it once was, where laws and justice dont really matter. All so the DNC elites could take some zionist bribes on a single election cycle, which you then lost. Heck of a job. Its hard to imagine screwing the globe any more thoroughly. Its breathtaking. You couldnt have done a more thorough job if you were maga republican fascists yourselves.
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I was going to just block the author of this post and move on but your comment so beautifully and clearly expressed everything I was thinking about their asinine lack of self awareness, I had to just at least thank you for taking the time to patiently engage despite knowing full well they refuse to learn.
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You put into words what I could not, thank you.
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Another thankful comment for you. Expressing my frustrations at the liberal tantrums over the situation has been a thorough exercise in anger control and I appreciate the precision with which you hammered home the reality of it all. Look after yourself and your community <3
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🗣️
Well stated.
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Who is this directed at? The democratic party? Or the voters? Because the you cant blame the voters for the DNC running as status quo, this is capitalism, nothing will ever change that. You either get capitalism extreme or capitalism extreme extra fascism edition. The country just simply cant be fixed with voting.
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I completely disagree and I think you’re missing the big picture. Progressivism collapsed under its own weight this year. You need to go back a few months earlier. Progressive candidates for down ballot races got absolutely decimated in their primaries.
Yes, economic hardship absolutely was the leading factor. Whether you wish to believe it or not, voters were blaming far-left/progressive policies for the economic mess. That’s the messaging Trump ran on, and that’s the messaging that won. Plain and simple.
Things were so bad for progressives that they had nothing left to champion other than justice for Palestine. The outrage against student loan forgiveness was absolutely brutal. Treating homelessness became an unmanageable and very noticeable problem. Hospitals are literally failing and there wasn’t a peep about Medicare for all. Hell, not once did progressives talk about increasing minimum wage this year.
I believe progressives are misinterpreting the voter alignment on defunding Israel. It’s absolutely wild progressives don’t talk to actual voters. The overall sentiment is isolationism. In other words, complete apathy towards genocide as long as it doesn’t cost me my wallet.
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If you thought the people who were critical of the Democrats went quite after the election, you're saying more about the echo chamber you've built for yourself than anything else.
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Lemmy.world bans all of the prominent voices
Libs: "Where's all of your criticism now, COMMIES?!????"
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Yep, .world bans leftists when they call out that Harris is just doing Diet Fascism, then said "well since I don't see them anymore, they were clearly Russian assets!"
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They voted for a worse genocide.
In 2 different places no less and possibly more.
They just don't know it yet.
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I’ve a feeling some of them know it. They’re just remaining here to maintain enough credibility to be believable during the next propaganda wave that’ll hit us once trump allows his boss to crater Kiev.
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Last I checked Trump lost 3 million voters since last election, and Harris lost 10 million.
The couch won. It's not like people were suddenly won over by a person they've likely seen through 3 election cycles.
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You forgot at home, where the marginalized groups are also gonna feel the brunt of turnips policies.
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One of the candidates was against Palestinian genocide??
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It's more of that some people wanted to protest the voting.
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Maybe pick a candidate that people want to vote for next time
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You vote based on the choices you're presented, not the ones you like. Like it or not a no vote is a vote one way or another.
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Your comment highlights the tension between idealism and realism when it comes to voting.
Ideally, everyone would vote based on the choices they’re given. But in the real world, human behavior is messy—especially in an electorate like America’s, where civic education is weak and collective action is a foreign concept to many. It’s not surprising that “lesser evil” voting and the idea of keeping a genocide on simmer failed to compel a minority of voters who chose to abstain.
Do I blame nonvoters? Sure, to an extent—maybe 49%. But realism forces me to direct most of the blame at the Democratic Party, which has spent the last eight years repeatedly folding to Trump’s every authoritarian move. Until they address their own complicity, they’ll continue to bear the larger share of responsibility for this broken dynamic.
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So motivational, that will surely drive Dems to turn out and vote for someone.
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You mean like Shill Stein? Or do you mean that other do-nothing that no one can remember because they’ve done nothing?
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I'm just guessing here but they probably don't mean a candidate who got less than 1% of the vote. I'm not sure why that's where you went right away.
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Amazingly, nobody's happy that the dems decided to sacrifice the whole country rather than budge on exterminating the Palestinians.
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I mean, Kamala really wanted Republicans in the white house with her. I bet she's elated to see how many will be in there now.
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Another day, another Lemmy post blaming leftists instead of Republicans, conservatives, racists, and their enablers.
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Well republicans, conservatives and racists are the minority. Had everybody left of them voted, the US wouldn't be on track to become a fascistoid autocracy.
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But everyone left of them didn't vote, and I think there are certainly more non-voting liberals than non-voting leftists, so focusing on an even smaller minority of Pro-Palestinian abstainers is silly.
Only 64% of the Voting Eligible Population turned out in 2024, what percentage of that 36% remaining do you really think is Pro-Palestinians that couldn't stomach Harris?
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I know plenty of leftist who live in reality, understood reality, and voted realistically for an ally in the fight over the next four years.
And then there's fantasy leftists who do zero work, yell into their echo chambers, guard their fragile worldview from exposure to reality, and pretend they're doing anything to further the cause. Oh and they get mad, stamp their feet, and stay home instead of vote. Or worse, they're so far up their own ass they honestly think voting for the leopard is a good idea.
The one saving grace is that there aren't enough of them here to sway a dog catcher election, let alone a national one.
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Another day, another commenter putting words into my mouth to make themselves feel better. No shit Republicans and the sycophant media are to blame, I blame them all the time. but the disingenuous "abandon harris" crowd sure didn't help either. You're welcome to keep ignoring context though, that's never stopped anyone around here before.
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Hey, can we please stop lumping all leftists together with the idiots who refused to vote, or chose to vote for Trump?
Some of us understand reason.
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It's not blaming leftists. It's blaming people too fucking stupid to vote.
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Do you have any facts that show it was Pro-Palestinians that failed to show up? Instead of America just wanting the reactionary populism?
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There's plenty of blame to go around.
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and their enablers.
That's what's being done in this post
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The Democratic party or a campaign can't fail, they can only be failed, right OP?
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Two things can be bad.
The Democrats clearly didn't figure out how to win in the reality we have, with the voters we have. They should definitely figure out what they could have done better.
The people who didn't vote for Harris deserve all shame they can get. It was not a hard choice. It shouldn't have been even close.
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Shouldn't have been based on what reality?
Sure as long as you ignore all the trump supporters and the people saying they had issues with the centrist and if you think everyone will just do what a portion of the population tells them to do because they act smug about it?
Like, that idea that it just "should" have worked is the problem.
Thinking you should ace a test cause you are smart and can figure it out and aiming to ace a test by studying and putting in effort are very different things but liberals in here wouldn't know it.
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I haven't seen them go quiet.
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*I voted for future genocide instead of present genocide.
Edit: I do empathize with people not voting for Harris as a protest vote. I personally think it is counter productive, but I can see that if the system won't allow someone to act ethically, then it makes sense to reject the system.
What I don't understand is voting for Trump as a protest vote instead. He has shown he has no inclination to support Palestine from his last administration and his ties to evangelical groups indicates he would be even worse for the situation than Harris. If anyone disagrees, I'd appreciate to hear the justification either in a reply or DM if you don't want randos flaming you.
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I voted for
futuremore genocide instead of present genocide.-
And a much higher probability of the once unthinkable - genocide happening in the homeland.
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I voted for a proven rapist whonsaid he'd rape again because of the possibility that the other guy might be a rapist or not give me what I want. Figuratively. To teach them a lesson and all that. So there.
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And the genocide just worsens, with another soon in Ukraine
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You can continue blaming everything but the DNC, but it won't change the fact that they are complicit in genocide and no matter who was in charge, the US will continue it's legacy of genocide worldwide.
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and no matter who was in charge, the US will continue it's legacy of genocide worldwide.
Soo...what was not voting for the less-genocidey candidate supposed to accomplish?
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Can you tell me what my vote for Harris did? I got to vote for "less genocide" and get "more genocide". Clearly, it was very important for Harris to keep out Palestinian- and Arab-Americans in swing states and bring in Republicans. Can you help me understand how that was supposed to win the most important election of all time where Republicans are planning on genociding everyone not them?
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People want a candidate they want to vote for instead of voting against the other candidate. You can justify to yourself as much as you want that people should have voted blue, but it won't get them to next election. If you actually care, you should be mobilizing an alternative to the dems or pushing them to adopt policies people actually want.
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You do realize how insane it is that you posted that unironically, right?
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But thank goodness you have your very very high horse upon which you can crow about your principles! Congrats I guess.
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we do a little bit of intellectualism
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"Their votes alone didn't swing the election" and "Their actions were the opposite of helpful in preventing genocide" can both be true.
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The people that was the opposite of helping prevent genocide were Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. That is the truth.
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Their actions were the opposite of helpful in preventing genocide
This is true for people who voted for Harris, not third party
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Yeah... that amazingly helpful 0.7%
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I guess kudos for staying on your sinking ship long after the rats have left. You're at least consistent
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They should be so happy to have achieved what they voted for. This is their utopia too and they deserve to enjoy the fruits of their single-principle voting as well.
When they see people sick and poor with no support or hope, young girls risking life and limb to bear the children of their rapists, rotting infrastructure and a rampant xenophobic kleptocracy, they need to stand and say "I helped make this happen!"
Be proud of the utopia you helped build by voting for the Russian agent; either one.
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You are talking about Gaza right
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If only the 7 million leftists in this country had voted for Harris instead of abstaining. /s
Leftists just pointed out the flaws in Harris' campaign. Dems ran a shit campaign in an attempt to appeal to "fallen Republicans".
You're welcome to blame leftists for Kamala losing the election. But in doing so you are failing to see why Harris really lost the election. Though I'm sure the Dems will do the same. They learn from nothing.
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They are certainly responsible for Trump doing what they will do. No amount of mental gymnastics can make that go away. You had a vote, it was what it was, you had to accept reality or live in a bubble roleplaying that your vote was something it was not.
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Yeah, if Trump lied about his intentions it would be one thing, but he's been very clear that he doesn't care how many brown Muslims Bibi wants to kill to steal their land.
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Oh, don't worry, their mental gymnastics will allow them to smugly blame the DNC while the world falls to pieces.
They'll fart into their glasses and huff while recounting how it was the DEMS fault for being unattractive, even while the fascists dismantle the checks and balances, pass a federal ban on abortion, Russia slaughters Ukrainian men, women, and elderly by the thousands and ships their children off to Russia to be prepatrioted.
They'll say Isreal would have done the same under Harris as they completely repell or slaughter the remaining Palestinians out of the west bank and move on to Lebenon.
They'll shrug as hundreds of thousands of immigrants, illegal or otherwise, and rounded up and thrown in camps or shipped over the border with no recourse besides an intentionally ineffective appeals process if they actually happened to be here legally.
Etc. Etc.
They'll just blame it on the Dems. Just like they have done since 2016. And they'll feel great about it.
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damn straight we will. run shit candidates get shit results. this is a story as old as time. we tried to make all of you dweebs see reason but you failed and as a result harris was unable to win. we were literally screaming she was going to lose with her campaign if she didn't shift boats.
I'm sorry we understood the state of play better than you guys.
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Trump is responsible for what Trump is going to do. In fact, he was responsible for what he did back in 2020 as well. And the justice system responsible for putting him behind bars didn't do what it was supposed to either.
Trying to blame Trump's nonsense on people who didn't vote for either party is divisive and propaganda. Rather the people should collectively hold those in power accountable for their actions (or lack thereof)
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Trying to blame Trump's nonsense on people who didn't vote for either party is divisive and propaganda.
And convincing people that voting for a third party in a two party system ...... isn't propaganda?
This isn't rocket science, it's just the train dilemma. If you know that Trump is going to do more harm and do not engage in harm mitigation then you are in some part responsible for not mitigating the harm.
You can't just declare yourself innocent and be innocent. We all pay taxes that are currently being used to murder children.
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There is a whole lot of Removed by mod here that might explain it.
Going deeper into the DNC echo chamber wont change anything though. Also i find it curious that people seeing the end of the world coming towards them leave their attempt at stopping it at "whelp i voted". Almost as if you are consistently fed the gaslighting lie, that voting once every four years for the candidate, that the DNC designates you to vote for, should be all you ever do politically.
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Didn't really think there was that many of them on here. I feel like every time I see memes like this on here it's just people preaching to the choir.
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Focusing on these people was an unhealthy obsession, and most of the attempts to reach them were needlessly adversarial to the point of being toxic and hardening their resolve to not vote for Harris. Gaza was a losing issue for Harris and this attention just kept it front and center. Sad to see the obsession continue.
Anyways, this is not why Harris lost. It was a landslide and Trump won the popular vote by a huge margin. Americans don't vote in large numbers on foreign policy - not unless Americans are getting killed. Kamala lost because she kept telling struggling families that the economy is great.
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The funniest thing about is like, I live in fucking Illinois. And I voted for the Dems downballot where it actually matters. All the words spilled, all the hate and anger that's been directed at me, has been over a single third party vote in one of the safest states in the country. The vast majority of Americans live in safe states too.
In reality it's just about enforcing the social norms of the tribe.
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Focusing on these people was an unhealthy obsession
It still is. What's done is absolutely done and every time I look at stuff like this on this platform it makes me feel like people are witch hunting. Right now progressives and the general left need solidarity more than ever now.
The people who withed their vote hurt us all but we can't exactly afford to alienate them.
I know the post election wounds are still fresh but hopefully the finger pointing stops soon. Besides non-voters I've seen people blaming minorities, I've seen people blaming women and I'm sure there's many other demographics people have blamed.
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I disagree with your assessment but appreciate your civility, as well as the fact that you acknowledge how obsessed people are with blaming undecided voters.
The stats I've seen show that Gaza was actually a significant issue in some swing states and absolutely could have improved Harris' chance at victory.
not unless Americans are getting killed
Many Americans have family members who are being killed in Gaza. Not to mention the risk of American troops being deployed increases as Israel becomes more and more belligerent.
Many Americans are also horrified at the fact that their tax dollars are being used to commit a genocide.
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Focusing on these people was an unhealthy obsession, and most of the attempts to reach them were needlessly adversarial to the point of being toxic and hardening their resolve to not vote for Harris.
This is exactly why so many dug their heels in. The idea of leftists making a weird or nonsensical decision baffled and enraged many other leftists and liberals, the unhealthy obsession metastasized to full-blown cancer towards the election, I swear the left was arguing more with itself than the MAGA's, and that's also by design, nobody wants to debate the right because they're insane, so better focus efforts on those who supposedly want the same thing, right?
The funny thing about the human mind that nobody gets yet is that attention is more important than what kind of attention, the fact that their obstinance about not voting democrat was getting them so much attention, making them feel like the persecuted minority, getting support from like-minds, it just created a mini-MAGA front. And sure, it probably wouldn't have changed the election but it shows clearly how the only thing standing between us and a better future is our own idiocy as a species. Every damn time, we're going to sabotage our collective future because of our personal feelings. MAGA are just people less aware of the world and more happy to be who they are. That's the only difference between us.
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Adding in an edit: downvote it all you want, you know it's true. Hell, in his last election he DID lose the popular vote. Some democracy. More voters, actual people who took the time and effort to go and actually vote, wanted a different president, and got shown their votes don't matter unless they live in a swing state.
------------original comment-----------------------
Anyways, this is not why Harris lost. It was a landslide and Trump won the popular vote by a huge margin. Americans don't vote in large numbers on foreign policy - not unless Americans are getting killed. Kamala lost because she
kept telling struggling families that the economy is greathas a vagina.Fixed that for you.
Also she didn't lose the pop vote by a huge margin. 3 million people is literally 1 percent of the population.
If this were a democracy and pop vote mattered, there are probably 10x that number of people who would have actually voted. Then I'd guess she would have won. Look at (greater area) Chicago. 9.5m people. 12 million people total in IL. how many Illinoisans didn't vote because why does it matter? About 2 million probably.
Disclaimer: That last paragraph was obviously arbitrary.
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They banned people and then celebrate the silence.
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Nope, we're here. Stop blaming voters and blame the democratic party please and thank you.
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Gotta love libs STILL blaming their overwhelming loss and support for genocide on people that they've banned.
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Look, he's doing it! It's just like the meme!
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I'm not a lib, and I blame the people who spent literal days here posting hundreds of comments convincing people to vote third party or not vote at all.
Progressives are also capable of critical thought. You make us look bad.
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But you did
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yeah your motives are despicable OP. if every voter you call out in this meme had voted blue, Harris still would have lost. the reason you think they are “quiet these days” is because they hardly fucking exist.
put down your shit slinging stick and hold accountable the people who actually did this act of violence. minimizing the damage of a fascist regime is never gonna happen off your pithy internet blame game “call outs.”
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well they’re not quiet now once they get called out
If you call people out, they're gonna respond, lol. (edited this part to not be accidentally included as part of the quote above)
tl;dr is we need more options than Democrats and Republicans, and voting third party should be only part of the solution to educate and mobilize the working class.
I think it is a false narrative that "voting blue no matter who" is the sole thing preventing the USA from succumbing to fascism. The reason government power see-saws between Democrats and Republicans is because it is hard for either party to maintain any legitimacy of being helpful to working class people when the only people both sides are helping are the wealthy. People get fed up with Democrats doing nothing for them and vote Republican. They then get fed up with Republicans doing nothing and vote Democrat.
Are the Democrats current policies better than Republicans in some areas? Sure. But the Democrats have also continued some of the worst Republican policies, and the ones they have better stances on are small and in my opinion offer no long term solutions to help the working class. So one proposed solution is to use our limited power of voting for another party that aligns more with working class needs. That should also only be one part of a larger scheme to educate and mobilize the working class.
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You're right about third parties, and everybody needs to factor this in, or America will never get them:
And the best chance at getting that getting democrats enough power and then cracking their skulls until they do it.
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fuckem. And honestly, if i get banned from a sub for calling out their bullshit then that's a sub I'm not interested in being in.
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if i get banned from a sub for calling out their bullshit then that’s a sub I’m not interested in being in.
I prefer blocking people like yourself with the "block user" function anyway. So you can shout into an empty void where no one is seeing your comments. Much more effective than you getting a new username to get around a sub ban.
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I still see them around. But it will be really quiet in January and February.
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Right? .ml has been quiet...the CCP ran out of things for them to say?
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Nah, they served their purpose. When the next election rolls around and Trump decides he's king/hands the presidency to Barron, expect some wild barrage of nonsense about why everyone except the people destroying the United States are actually at fault.
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90% of them were Russian/ Iranian/ Chinese/ North Korean trolls or bots. They got what they wanted, so it's on to the next thing. Probably undermining support for Ukraine.
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In this thread: morally superior busybodies absolutely malding and calling OP an enlightened centrist for making fun of them
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it's a lemmy classic
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Kamala "Frack the Planet" Harris was not going to save the planet.
I'm comfortable with my decision to not vote for genocide, and I will continue to not vote for warhawks.
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You did vote for genocide though. You can tell yourself whatever it is that you think you need to hear in order to preserve your sanity, but you are directly, partly, responsible for what happens next.
I hope you will be paying attention.
And if Harris would have won, and if she would have nominated Mike Huckabee, and if she would have been doing the things that Trump is about to do in the coming months, I would be saying and feeling the same way about myself.
It's called being honest with yourself. You should try it sometime.
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"Yes, we lost to the republicans. But for a beautiful moment in time we supported genocide with billions of dollars in weapons!" - the democratic party
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Hey did you forget the dems are supporting a genocide? Better vote for them anways! Hey did you forget the dems are supporting a genocide? Better vote for them anways! Hey did you forget the dems are supporting a genocide? Better vote for them anways!
Like fucking clockwork.
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Hey, did you know trump will support the genocide harder and wreck the US further? Better not vote for the dems! Hey, did you know trump will support the genocide harder and wreck the US further? Better not vote for the dems! Hey, did you know trump will support the genocide harder and wreck the US further? Better not vote for the dems!
Like fucking clockwork.
Oh wait...they never mention the Trump part, because they actually DGAF about the genocide or what Trump will do to the US, they just want Trump to win.
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Constantly bringing it up does the democrats more harm than good regardless of the argument you make, you fucking moron. You just want to feel a false sense of intellectual superiority to people making moral superiority arguments.
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Some of us have real lives to get on with and are willing to do the work behind the scenes, while we get on with that. My community has buried three since the since the end of October, two have recently been diagnosed with cancer and another two are in stage four. There are also considerations of paying bills. Just because we're not wallowing in self-pity doesn't make anyone anything other than busy. Mutual aid, direct action. Voting for the major parties isn't the answer.
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Front page of Lemmy is just as bad as the front page of reddit lmao
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Okay?
Leave.
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Hot take: Withholding voting for either party is a valid form of protest when neither party is standing for its people.
If they want to win the support of their constituents, its high time to change how the party is going to operate going forward.
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First of all, it's your vote and it's up to you to cast it (or not) as you see fit. Anyone saying you have an obligation to use it a certain way is violating fundamental democratic values. But other people likewise have the right to judge your decision.
I would say not voting for one of the main parties would show them that the distinction between them doesn't matter, and so their leadership does not need to be more or less radical to cater to you. And not voting for even a third party shows that effectively no one can meet your standards, so policymakers can entirely ignore whatever it is you care about.
Protesting with your vote, like all protests, only works when your actions actually motivate the intended recipients to act as you want them to. Otherwise, it's just performative self-indulgence.
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Hot take: "withholding" a vote simply eliminates your voice in the political system, meaning you no longer matter in any way.
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C'mon guys, can't you spin up the "somehow, blame Russia" machine for this like last time?
Running around with pitchforks looking for minorities to blame is a really bad look, and it ultimately is just you showing your blue MAGA ass.
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At what point did I blame minorities?
Most of the time I saw "don't vote for genocide" as called out here, it was a majority of the time made by people parroting Russia-aligned talking points as well, so you can take from that what you will.
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I actually think less of them than I do of Trump supporters, and that's really saying something.
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that’s really saying something.
Is it though? By definition centrists are much farther to the right than the left is, so your thinking more highly of trumpers speaks more about you and why you guys lost than it does about anyone else. Good old centrism: half donkey, half elephant, always a failure.
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When I say I think more highly about Trumpers than I do about single issue voters who handed Trump the presidency because they were too ignorant and short-sighted to see what they were doing, I mean by the smallest of margins possible. Both these groups of people fall in the "gutter" category for me. But with Trumpers, I've already written them off. They never gave me reason to believe they were anything else than what they are. Up until November 5, 2024 I gave the single issue voters some credit, assuming most of them would pull their heads out of their asses long enough to do the right thing.
I was wrong.
I somehow have less respect for someone that SHOULD be able to pull their heads out of their asses than someone who just had their heads up there the whole time and were open about it.
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You'd rather side with a Trump supporter than someone who refuses to vote for genocide? That says a lot.
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You’d rather side with a Trump supporter than someone who refuses to vote for genocide? That says a lot.
When, exactly, did I say I'd side with a Trump supporter.
I stated that I believe Trump supporters and fools who voted 3rd party, abstained from voting, or were single issue voters are all idiots and are responsible for the garbage situation we find ourselves in.
Before the election anyone with a brain was trying to desperately explain to these 3rd party, single issue, non-voting fools that their inability to grow up and make intelligent adult decisions would gift Trump the presidency.
AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.
I'm not taking sides between them. They're idiots across the board. I was simply expressing that at least a Trump supporter is an obvious idiot, whereas these other fools went out of their way to be idiots.
Idiots: I can't vote for genocide.
Also Idiots: Oops, Donald Trump is president now and he's even worse for Palestine.
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they got exactly what they wanted. They have nothing to say, they can continue to complain without reason about things that are unimportant.
(before people @ me, yes i'm right, they would care about like, children starving, or something else if the importance was what mattered)
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Yes. This but unironically.
Tell me, throughout history, how often have atrocities, mass slaughter, and genocide been claimed at the time to be justified on the basis of self-preservation? Say, "securing a future for our white children," for example. Out of those, how many times have the people saying, "better them than us" or "the ends justify the means" actually been on the right side of history?
It blows my mind how genuinely prone to evil Americans are, as a culture. There are people who have actually experienced the horrors of war, watched their houses burned down, watched their loved ones die, who still refuse to turn to something as evil as genocide as a solution. Do you really think this is the first time anyone's faced that choice? But liberals, supposed enlightened progressives, sitting comfortably on their couches worried that they might have to deal with a shitty politician for the next four years, will immediately jump on board with being Hitlerites if it means they can go back to brunch instead of doomscrolling. Like, y'all don't even consider Trump bad enough to actually start opposing the US government and treating it as an enemy. I can only imagine what horrors and atrocities you'd resort to if you were ever actually faced with bombs dropping outside your homes. If you were put into the body of a Palestinian, you'd be criticizing Hamas as being too moderate and restrained.
I'll go to my grave before I vote for genocide, and nothing anyone says or does will ever make me budge, and you'd best remember that because if you wanna blame me for Kamala losing, know that I'll fucking do it again.
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Or you could have just not supported a genocide so that people would vote for you. Stop blaming the electorate for your own failings. No one is obliged to vote for you. Especially when you have terrible policies like funding a genocide.
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I hate to break it to you but that would not have turned the election. Sorry to spoil the delusion but this election didn't turn on Palestine. It was the economy. I'll go dig up links for you if you are that lazy.
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There was an opportunity for change, and we went for it. We're less noisy about it now because the opportunity has passed- squandered by folks like you.
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Tell me more about this plan that has now failed. If it has failed, clearly the plan isn't for future change, but change in this election? If it has failed, clearly you didn't want the current outcome?
I'm struggling to see what success would have been
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I get you’re mad that Trump won, but you’re blaming the wrong people.
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Oh there are lots of people to blame. It's a long list!
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Agreed. Harris lost by more than 7 million votes. Leftists were critical of Kamala because she is pro-Israel, among other things. These "other things" are the reasons most people who abstained from voting didn't vote for her.
If Dems wanted to win then they should have had better messaging and policy. Kamala lost because her platform didn't appeal to most Americans. She never talked about anything that would improve people's material conditions, and instead tried to appeal to "fallen Republicans".
Harris didn't lose this election because of Gaza. She lost it because she ran a dogshit campaign. Democrats had nothing to be excited for so they didn't bother voting. People aren't as motivated to vote when they are merely doing lesser evil voting.
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Liberals are so fucking obnoxious.
"How dare you vote your conscience"
Seriously go fuck yourselves if you think this. I've tried to reason with these people but they aren't willing to put themselves in the shoes of someone who couldn't stomach voting for Harris. Grow the fuck up, expand your viewpoint, and stop being a condescending prick on the internet, I fucking beg you.
If you're on the internet insulting anyone who didn't vote for Harris, you are the reason we're in this situation. You and your ilk are the reason the democrats can run a right wing campaign and then blame leftists when they (predictably) lose. It's honestly fucking pathetic.
Sorry I'm just getting so fucking tired of these people.
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"But but genocide joe, such a catchy name! Why do I have to think further than some meme?" -💩
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What's this, a sudden influx of votes and comments that visibly oppose the votes and comments that came from the intended community, made apparent by older, lower-visibility comments such as those under folds having completely opposite positions and ratings? Why that almost sounds like a brigade! Surely not, we left those behind on Reddit, right?
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The meme got popular in the community's echo chamber. As it gained in activity, it wound up in more people's feeds, exposing it to users who found it obnoxious. It's not a conspiracy, it's just how the platform works. If you don't want your opinions scrutinized, keep them to yourself.
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Kamala would not have been much better than Trump. She was far right democrat with zero policy at best.
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If her only difference from Trump was willingness to prosecute Musk, she would be worth it.
Yes, the primaries have been rigged, and we need a multi-party system with proportional representation. Until then, there is not much you can do other than begrudgingly vote Democrat.
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