JD Vance says US could drop support for NATO if Europe tries to regulate Elon Musk’s platforms
JD Vance says US could veto NATO if Europe tries to regulate Elon Musk’s platforms
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/22332949
JD Vance said that ‘American power comes with certain strings attached’
Not even in office yet, and already making threats.
I’d like to see Europe tell Vance to fuck off. I suspect that if Europe gives in now, the Trump administration will make this same threat every time Europe does something he doesn’t like.
Trump will be an unreliable NATO ally anyway, so it isn’t much of a risk on Europe’s part.
Don't negotiate with terrorists
I wouldn't be surprised if he pulls the US out of NATO and the UN, since he hates both organizations.
I'd be amazed if he does any of it tbh. Last time he just spent most of it playing golf, and sticking his goofy-ass signature on anything they stick in front of him.
The last thing they want to do is actually deal with the boogeyman issues. If they did that they'll have nothing to campaign on next time.
Most of this will be spent lining their own pockets.
Didn't congress make it practically impossible to pull out of nato now?
If I recall correctly countries can't withdrawl from the UN without their approval
Problem is though that the un-united dystopia of america could cause issues in the UN
The US pulling out of the UN would allow them to pass all sorts of cool stuff, like recognizing and admitting Palestine and calling for a ceasefire, recognizing the universal rights of children, and condemning the far-right, all of which the US used its veto power to stop against overwhelming support on the other side.
It's going to be a hell of a long 4 years, for America and the rest of the world. Damn.
They should do this with Sanctions.
EU countries could start by carryng their weight in NATO.
Ukraine war exposed EU as incoherent imbeciles unable to maintain a proper security posture, esp Germany and their Nazis nepo baby regime... Straight 🤡
Vance behavior is out of line but you need to check that bravado that is not support by anything.
Pay for your own defense and help Ukraine properly... This is your fucking war that was caused by German being a Putin's bitch. Industrial economy relying on a geopolitical adversery for energy while 40k American protect it from Russia for free. Classic parasite behavior.
Mutti merkal so good 🤡
The EU has by now significantly outpaid the US, and out-supported the US in Ukraine. However, for historical reasons, it lacks certain items which Ukrainians badly need (tactical ballistic missiles and anti-missile defense, to bring good examples).
On the matter of aircraft, I should especially emphasize that EU countries have given fighter aircraft, but the US has not. The US is currently attempting to get through the bureaucracy of approving a Swedish AWACS aircraft (with some US components) going to Ukraine.
Educate thyself here, military people use this resource and approve of it:
You offended a bunch of Germans here. Don't forget the Americans are sitting in Germany mostly to bomb Syrian kids though, they're not defending Europe from anything.
Oh dear, spilled koolaid all down your straight jacket
Holding Western stability hostage in the name of the oligarchs, good job voting everyone...
No no no, you see, we showed the democrats by not showing up to vote! /s
uuugh... I made myself sick quoting those jackass fucktards. (I did vote, and screamed until I was blue in the face to get people to vote. About every year.)
Old article, btw. This is from Sept 2024. I get that's what he promised, and while I think he's a complete asshat, let's not discount that he and Trump said and will say anything to appear smart, capable, and as if they have a plan.
Time will tell if this actually comes to pass, but I'm not actually going to hold my breath for this one.
Good note, I didn't notice that in the original post. I edited the title
These autocrats have always wanted to drop NATO.
Let’s not pretend like X is their reason. Supporting autocracy is their reason, and now they’re trying to come up with excuses to get the public onboard.
Yes, but they need to repay the rat elon for all his support during the campaign. This might even be true
These autocrats have always wanted to drop NATO.
NATO is a terrorist organization led by USA. If any USA rulers want to disband it would be only to com up with a bigger and more evil organization.
So, NATO had a problematic operation, trying to establish (and coordinate the establishment of) guerilla stay-behind troops to use in the event of Soviet takeover - and the operation went especially problematic in Italy during the Years of Lead, where some of those guys associated with right-wing terrorists. The year was 1969 or so.
Basing on this, how do I conclude anything about the NATO of today?
Disclaimer: I was asked to hold an anti NATO speech during a protest event during a NATO summit. Being a moderately honest anarchist, I held a speech denouncing the practises seen in Afghanistan (the year was 2012), but emphasized that collective self defense is a valuable thing to have (a common attitude here in Eastern Europe), and added that if the alliance would bother doing what it says on the sticker, I would support it.
NATO is an alliance of various countries. Some of them aren't nice or democratic (classic example: Turkey). Mixed bag, and constantly changing. Membership in NATO is not a letter of indulgence for a member state to do anything - allies are obliged to help only if someone attacks a member state. If a NATO member attacks someone else, allies can ignore the affair or even oppose the member (example: Turkey recently bombed Kurdish troops in Syria so sloppily that threatened US troops shot down a Turkish drone).
You wanting the same thing JD Vance wants should trigger a warning in your brain before you say anything else.
I like how you say this and your instance is "sh. It just works"
As a European, i say, "Please go ahead." While I like the idea of Nato, I want my politicians to be forced to take action in creating an eu Military and not rely on Nato for defence.
Also out of curiosity, will you guys be deporting immigrants like Elon Musk? Who invalidated their visa.
Can Canada apply to join Europe?
Pretty please svp
I think we have one free chair left after UK, so...
imagine if trump seized everything he can from him and deported him for being immigrant
And then you get idiots that will tell someone that is not American : "uh why do you care so much about our election, it's not your country"
Well yes your (vice) president is starting to extort the rest of the world before even starting his mandate...
An NATO without the US would be better for the whole world although I know that it's not Vance intention
Very much this.
Just look at the TPP. The US tried to write the rules and the rest of the partners said, "No." The US said, "Screw you guys, we're going home!" and stormed off in a snit assuming the deal would fall apart without them but it didn't and it ended up being better without the US imperialist bullshit. Then, US farmers realized that they were getting fucked because the US wasn't part of the deal ([1], [2], [3]) and the US came back demanding to be let in and the US imperialist bullshit restored to the agreement. Once again the partnerd said, "No".
Let's let the US leave whatever they want to leave, renegotiate everything without them, then only let them return under the new terms. The world will be a much better place in the end.
EDIT: Trump ordered the US to withdraw from the TPP because the partners wouldn't be bullied into accepting one-sided andi-competitive, anti-consumer protections for US industry and a dispute resolution process that favoured the US but that the US would ignore when it lost.
This is the absolute weirdest thing about Trump's governance to me: how sometimes he ends up doing good things for terrible reasons, like when the US redeployed from Syria.
Also, we draw lines on maps and build borders but the environment doesnt care where pollution & emissions originate, everything spreads everywhere in the end.
And there are countries littered with US air bases. Like the one only a few miles from here that regularly houses bombers.
Not too long ago, this would be a career-ending display of corruption.
Yup.
In case anyone hasn't noticed, the goalposts for norms have significantly shifted in the last decade. This is historically how it always begins.
Buckle up. Protect yourself.
Yes, and if called out, they say it happens for freedom of speech, which is absurd given that the richest man on earth provides the infrastructure and has a large presence on the platform himself.
Yes, and if called out, they say it happens for freedom of speech, which is absurd given that the richest man on earth provides the infrastructure, (soon) influences the legislative rules and has a large presence on the platform himself.
Cool, no more need for American military bases in our countries then. Or sharing intelligence with them. Or propping up their arms industry.
There's still that little issue of building up your own. Most EU countries have been demilitarizing for 30 years more and more, with the strategy being "it's a new world without wars, and also big daddy USA will protect us, and if not them, then Britain and France will". Britain has done an exit, and France alone is kinda lazy.
Most EU countries have been demilitarizing for 30 years more and more, with the strategy being "it's a new world without wars, and also big daddy USA will protect us,l
That's not the Europe I see now and sounds like a US President trope. I would agree that post-Cold War that was the case, but I'd say in the last decade at least, it's not.
But, genuine question as I'm open to being wrong, saved this is an area that interests me, do you have sources for this?
Britain has in no way done an exit. Going out of a trade and economic union has nothing to do with their military commitments.
People in Sardinia are going to be happy about this
That would work, if the EU hasn’t been sleeping on their defense, and relying on Daddy USA to protect Europe
God I hate Earth.
Earth is lovely, it's humanity I struggle with.
Humanity is lovely, it's politicians I struggle with.
What a coincidence that Elon Musk paid 100+ million for their campaign
This is why billionaires shouldn't exist.
The other thing I need to mention is that is that Elon Musk is far from the only billionaire with a massively disproportionate influence on elections and society. Or even the biggest. He is just the biggest attention whore of them all.
I imagine him and other billionaires in a group chat with him word vomiting every time he has an idea of how to further fuck the USA.
It'd be messed up for the government to do this even if he wasn't a billionaire though. End corporations in bed with government.
Democracy voted for this, apparently
The Republican vice presidential nominee and Ohio senator claimed in an interview with YouTuber Shawn Ryan that a top EU official had threatened to arrest the billionaire [Musk] if he allowed former President Trump back on X.
“So what America should be saying is, if NATO wants us to continue supporting them and NATO wants us to continue to be a good participant in this military alliance, why don’t you respect American values and respect free speech?” Vance asked. “It’s insane that we would support a military alliance if that military alliance isn’t going to be pro-free speech. […]
“I’m not going to go to some backwoods country and tell them how to live their lives,” Vance added. “But European countries should theoretically share American values, especially about some very basic things like free speech.”
The US ranked 26th in the world when it comes to free speech, with several members of the European Union higher up the list, according to the 2024 Global Expression Report.
If anyone is interested these countries are ahead of the USA from 1-25: Denmark Switzerland Sweden Belgium Estonia Norway Finland Ireland Germany Iceland Portugal Austria New Zealand Canada Argentina Spain Czech Republic Italy Latvia Costa Rica Uruguay France Dominican Republic Netherlands Vanuatu
Insult Musk on Twitter, wait until posts are censored, sue X for not having freedom of speech. How's that for American values?
Sure that's not corrupt at all.
So, the US wants to lose the only influence it actually has on Europe?
I say go for it.
40k Us troops to stationed in Germany alone to defend Europe from Russia who is slaughtering ukrianians... Instead of you know...
Sure US has no influence...
How do you think it costs US taxpyer?
Oh nooooooo! The poor tax payer helping secure the planet he lives on. How tragic!
The US WANTS to be in those bases because it gives them a lot of soft power in foreign relationships, and a base to project power in the part of the world.
If the US gives up NATO, you can also kiss goodbye to any sort of influence on the European countries decision making, as well as any resemblance of military logistic in that part of the world (as well as any sales of military equipment to European countries as it's starting to happen, with many countries investing in their own military industrial complexes). This is why in the past 50 years, regardless of the party, every single US president supported NATO regardless of spendings. It took a moron to say they want out
They can't even wait two fucking months before saying explicitly fascist shit like this.
So many people are in for a rude awakening, including many people on the left who have no concept of what is coming. This is what happens when you don't teach history, I guess.
Yup.
Everyone, left and right, are about to go through something very unpleasant together.
I never did have any hope for those on the right, but I hope those on the left that helped make this happen become fully aware of their mistake.
This is expected. A hallmark of fascism is state capitalism — a fusion of the corporation and the state — with corporations administered more like org units of the fascist party.
Many of us have been saying that this is the natural end state of capitalism all along, if it's allowed to run its course.
Problem is that it's hurting the economy, meaning that if your hypothesis is right, capitalism collapses rather quickly if left on it's on devices.
Block the lot.
We don't need US far right propaganda.
We have our own.
France's military industry is having wet dreams thinking about it.
If the US pulls out of NATO France becomes the biggest arms exporter of NATO and I would expect other countries will become less enthusiastic at the idea of buying US weapons systems.
Doesnt Germany also produce a whole lot while their own army is rotting away?
Here is the share of global arms export per country.
Germany, Italy and the UK are also big exporters but still behind France.
Germany sells to KSA and the likes, now a lot is going to ukraine.
Their own equipment is unmaintained pile of trash due to US having 40k troops deployed there. Although maybe that is finally changing.
In his shoes, I would think twice - does their team really want to present their dirtiest laundry to the world - such as owing an election to a media oligarch?
As for the EU, it's a massive bureaucracy which still follows its own laws. It probably won't change track. There is no single person to change its track.
However, at this stage of the game, I have the nagging feeling that some American may downregulate Elon Musk directly, far before the EU manages to step on his precious toe.
They do not care. They are the worst people this side of Pol Pot and Stalin and still get all the votes for the republican party.
I think we should collectively block twitter on our routers and be done with it.
In his shoes, I would think twice - does their team really want to present their dirtiest laundry to the world - such as owing an election to a media oligarch?
Why do you think they care? Even if their followers didn't have cult-like devotion, the chances that we will ever have a free and fair presidential election ever again are extremely slim. Why should they care about optics?
So, accept cybertrucks in the narrow streets of Italian hill towns, high fructose corn syrup in all food, freedom of hate speech driving vulnerable voices out of your public square, and AR-15s for everyone who wants one, or we throw you to the Orcs?
x is a government platform now. Sign onto your government social media account.
Listen, if it were a government website it would be unusable for the vast majority of users, and basically impossibly to navigate, so we got that going for us. Looking at you DTS.
What a weird tactic for such a weird, little person.
Lol. He's actually 6'3" though (190.5cm), so pretty tall.
Still, I absolutely hate mixing diplomatic/military policy and economic policy. Screw all of that. Doesn't change his height though.
Yes. Attacking peoples appearance will surely teach the opposition not to do the same.
Perfectly executed strategy.
Oh so they're copying infamous and largely ineffective wolf warrior tactics from China. Good way to make every single country despise and look down on the US.
Looking down at the US is actually the norm for other countries.
Downward angle is increasing significantly now though, I'd imagine
This is a key part of fascism, government and industry being one and the same entity.
It's Fascism all the way down!
Couchfucker said what?
Couchfucker said we cannot band The Dipshit
Trump and Vance hold no actual power. Musk is now the shadow president of the USA.
I wish this were true... You should probably read some history about fascism/totalitarianism. Musk, and his corporations, are just another arm of the authoritarian government, to be used on the whim of our singular leader. Usually to mete out vengeance for perceived slights, and occasionally reward a crony for their loyalty (until they're no longer needed, of course).
This is how all corporations function under this system, otherwise they are eliminated.
Welcome back to the political spoils system.
Hope everyone is ready for this to be at least the next 4 years of our lives.
I say at least because these losers ran on fundamentally changing how our government works. In 4 years they may be able to create a scenario in which it's literally impossible for them to lose an election. Not to mention the effect this will have on global politics.
We let the Stupids have total control of our federal government. Suffering will become the norm. And if you think we're suffering now? Well, might be time to pick up a history book.
But hey Gaza, imright, oh wait.
Can't wait to see what these fuckheads have in store for America, and the rest of the world. Plus, Canada is getting it's own version of Trump next year, so that's incredible too.
What wonderful times we live in.
Never thought I would say this but PLEASE let Trump live another 4 years.
Yiu know as well as I do that Vance was the real candidate all along. The orange buffoon will be martyred less than a year after he takes office to make way for him. Vance is much easier to control.
Vance is also directly out Peter thiel pocket or other areas around their crotch
If ur mean to Elon we leave NATO.
A very hinged take. Thank you Kanye, very cool.
The only way to deal with them is to call them on every bluff so that making a bluff becomes a liability'
We should really start to believe them when they say these things, and prepare accordingly.
The "it can't happen here" mentality is so ingrained, that I feel like even many of the people who know that it is bullshit, still aren't fully comprehending what is coming. Which I get, because it's hard to comprehend. But boy is it frustrating.
How fascist of him
The government using it's power in the service of corporations
This guy is the future vice president. Fuck you people of America.
More than likely future president. Trump served his purpose in getting his cult to take over America. He'll probably step down to play golf and have sex with minors.
It'll be the 25th amendment.
The fun part will be watching Trump and his maga cult fight it, cope with it, and eventually come to terms they have been grifted.
This is why people say Americans are morons, because they elect shitheads like this.
Suck our misinformaphalus and don’t apply your own laws or we will abandon you.
Sounds like fascist talk, yeah.
Let Russia take over your country or we will let Russia take over your country
Don't threaten them with good times
What a time to be alive.
Not for long, if RFK Jr has his way.
I believe I speak for all of us Europeans when I say he can go fuck himself while sucking off Elon's micropenis.
Doesn't he know that NATO profit US the most?
The fucking Government of Putin wants to kill off the US defense industry. If the asswipes do this, they will cutoff the spare parts to keep the weapons maintained. Fuck that shit, it's time for the EU to purchase and use EU made weapon systems because the USA will become an unreliable partner. Furthermore, the US military can leave all their installations in Europe and rebuild them in fucking Russia for all I care.
JD Vance is crazy
Disgusting regime whore don't wait to get into the white whore house before he starts earning its fee.
I hope musk donkey bunches it after their nest tryst...
They want to do it anyway and just look for excuses to blame others.
The orange dickhead is not yet at his new place, but the asshole followers are already raging :(
I guess the next four years will be "interesting" and divisive. This world is going from bad to worse.
Now is the time for Europe to rally behind Ukraine. We really should have upped military funding and arms production in preparation for this outcome.
Was Europe about to regulate Elon Musk's platforms?
Imagine caping for that fuckin' lizard. Couldn't be me.
Americans taking some inspiration from WeChat.
Oh that would go over well. Seems like they don't understand what NATO actually is
Nonsense sofa! Ehem so far