Harassment campaign from a pawb.social user
Harassment campaign from a pawb.social user
Drag is trans, and uses person-independent neopronouns. These can be confusing for some people. But drag is patient, and with the vast majority of people is not pushy with drag's pronouns at all. In return, the vast majority of people tend to take no issue with drag. However, some people decide to invent a problem because they see drag using drag's pronouns, and it makes them angry.
Drag has a problem with one of these people, a pawb.social user called Draconic_NEO. Drag would normally just send a report, and drag is in the process of doing that, but the level of harassment has elevated to abuse of mod powers, and drag feels the need to inform the pawb.social admins of this user, as well as giving full context to the issue.
A week ago, drag created a thread on the db0 instance regarding a wrongful ban. Here is the context of drag's comments which lead to the ban:
Drag has used HTML to restore the deleted comments in the thread to save you time checking the modlog. As you can see, someone insults drag for drag's style of talking, and drag merely explains what is going on. Some people are unfamiliar with first person neopronouns, and drag patiently explains. The first removed comment is actually drag answering a direct question from another user. A moderator of the community decided that a trans person explaining their pronouns is rulebreaking behaviour, and drag posted about it on db0's "power tripping bastards" community. Drag didn't choose the name of that community, it's just the only place to complain about bad mod decisions.
Here is Draconic_NEO's take on the original ban:
Please understand that drag did not pivot the conversation to dragself, or display any aggression in the thread. Someone insulted drag for using neopronouns, and drag patiently explained. Draconic_NEO is, in this comment, inventing a narrative that a trans person's pronouns are an attack on others for the sake of attention-seeking. This is a transphobic cliche. The complaint that drag's use of neopronouns somehow makes drag similar to some troll is... nonsense? Drag doesn't get it, but it seems to be a core part of Draconic_NEO's argument that someone else was apparently a neopronoun user in the past, and now everyone else has a license to hate neopronoun users.
And here is Draconic_NEO in the same thread, attacking the entire concept of nounself pronouns. Here are some resources on nounself pronouns, which are an established part of queer culture and what drag's pronouns would probably fall under:
https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Nounself_pronouns
https://pronoun.fandom.com/wiki/Nounself_Pronouns
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/nounself-pronoun
https://edition.cnn.com/us/neopronouns-explained-xe-xyr-wellness-cec/index.html
For someone who uses the nounself pronoun “leaf,” that may look like: “I hope leaf knows how proud we are that leaf is getting to know leafself better!” or “Leaf arrived at the coffee shop before me; I was mortified to have been late to meet leaf.”
As you can see, nounself pronouns are prominent enough in the queer culture to be referenced on CNN and even dictionary.com. Attacks on the idea of nounself pronouns are, in a word, transphobic.
Drag will stop posting excerpts from the thread here, because the reason this post isn't just a report, is that drag can't report all of Draconic_NEO's harassment.
All four of these communities are moderated by Draconic_NEO, with nobody above them but the admins to tell: Drag has never posted or commented on or even seen these communities before. Drag didn't know they existed. Lemmy UI doesn't even have a button to do that. You have to manually make an HTTP request yourself in order to do it. This took effort, this took work. And the only possible reason to do it, is to create a record across all of Lemmy of a single user's grievances that anyone will see when they search that particular user.
And it's already happened. People look at modlogs, and they trust moderaters. The barrier to entry to becoming moderator of a dozen no-name communities is zero, but the authority of being able to create a permanent record on which to tell whatever lies you like and be believed by many people, is powerful. And drag can't report these modlog decisions to the admins. Drag can't reason with somebody who has a basic hostility towards trans people who use nounself pronouns, and who invents stories about imagined violence by trans people.
Transphobia is against the rules on pawb.social. Harassment is against the rules. Spreading misinformation is against the rules. Drag wants all of this to stop, please.
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Hi hey, Draconic NEO here. I stand behind my decision to ban you from these communities for the trolling and hostility I watched you commit in-front of me against @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world before the thread was locked. Keep in mind that your record goes back further than the bans I gave you, and isn't exactly stunning.
You're also not exactly in the right here considering, your most recent history includes telling trans people they should kill right wingers before killing themselves, encouraging both violence and suicide. You being banned from 4 communities for atrocious behavior reminiscent of one of the worst trolls on all of Lemmy is by far not the most incriminating embarrassing thing in your modlog, which I'm sure will a gift that keeps on giving if things continue at the pace they are headed.
The ironic thing is that you have accused me of harassing you by banning you, however this post could indeed be considered harassment towards me, it's an attempt to incite ill will and hostility towards me for banning you from communities I moderate due to witnessing your bad behavior first-hand. Now I have thick tough scales so this doesn't really hurt or bother me, but it does reinforce my decision to ban you, especially for the reasons I did. I think many people who look at your post and modlog history will agree, especially if you continue to give us gold nuggets like this.
What do you guys think? Ignoring the fact that preemptive bans might be controversial, how does this individual's behavior strike you? Doesn't seem particularly good faith to me.
@crashdoom@pawb.social @natebluehooves@pawb.social @itsOasus@pawb.social @Spitfire@pawb.social @atomicpeach@pawb.social @southernwolf@pawb.social @Doridian@pawb.social
I need you guys' opinions on this, since you are admins that makes it more official. Ignoring the controversy surrounding preemptive bans (I'll do some investigation on that), do you think the behavior exhibited by this person in their modlog is indicative of a troll account, and do you guys think it would be considered harassment to ban them (silly question I know). Maybe I've said things in a way that could come off as offensive to some people, if I did I deeply apologize I may not always be clear on what I'm trying to say and I never put people down for their gender identity. Sometimes articulation can be hard for me.
Also I'm curious would you consider a public post about a person like this to be harassment against that person? I mean they could've sent a DM to you, or an email but instead they decided to take it public. Which could be interpreted to have been done in the hopes that other people would harass me for my decision to ban them from those communities.
(I meant to post this earlier but it seems there was an error (Toastify is Awesome) and I didn't see that until after I went back to the Tab, so uh info here may be a bit outdated because it came before there were other replies added.
I'm going to get the popcorn and see how many alts get banned along with this tumor. They're downvoting your and everyone else's posts here.
And that's aside from them ducking everything you've explained.
I think you know my answer to your question, but just in case: you were 100% in the right and even if this person is totally serious about this whole Dragon Fucker thing, and I am not convinced of that, they are being unreasonable about it to the point of it being tantamount to trolling.
Or just literally trolling in the case where they were harassing me.
Dumbass literally decided to create an alt and community harassing me and pinging me on all my accounts even Mastodon. WTF?
Honestly, if they're sending you death threats that signals that all sense of good faith goes out the window. Looks like a kid that thinks they can manufacture controversy to "cancel" someone.
I think you should ban them from all spaces you can, block them and try to spend the rest of the day relaxing and trying to get it out your head.
My condolences to you for having to go through all this nonsense.
I think I might invite my sister to go camping tomorrow and not bring Lemmy, Mastodon, or Email with me. Hopefully it'll be dealt with by then.
Do you stand by your statement that trans people shouldn't use nounself pronouns?
Do you stand by your statement that when people decide to make unprovoked insults against drag for using neopronouns, that is drag changing the subject?
Drag still has not complained, at all, about you not using drag's pronouns. Drag's post here is concerned with your statements against all nounself using trans people, your perception that trans people's existence is an attack on others, and your harassment of drag by banning drag from random communities drag has never visited.
Drag is curious why you didn't say anything about your own actions in your comment, and just changed the subject to your perceived wrongdoing by drag. Do statements against thousands of trans people's pronouns become okay when you have a story to tell about one single trans person doing a bad thing? You justified attacks on drag by pointing at this Drone Rights person, and now you're justifying attacks on others by pointing at your stories about drag. Is that your opinion; that no trans person should do anything you don't like if a bad trans person did it? That you're allowed to harass drag for the actions of others?
Do you stand by your statement that trans people shouldn’t use nounself pronouns?
Now I know you are not acting in good faith because I never said that. But let's break down why you are banned piece by piece so there's zero ambiguity.
"DroneRights 2.0" - Gives people a frame of reference to understand what it looks like
"trolling" - Describes the nature of the behavior you've exhibited over the past few days
"accusations of transphobia" - You have regularly been accusing people of being transphobic for calling you out on bad behavior, and for moderative actions.
"obscene NSFW username" - Do I need to explain why "Dragonfucker" is an NSFW username?
Do you stand by your statement that when people decide to make unprovoked insults against drag for using neopronouns, that is drag changing the subject?
Wow the sealioning and bad faith accusations just keep on coming. You were called a troll because your behavior indicates that of a troll, the language you use is a factor but it is only one of many factors. The other factors were the trolling and the harassment towards others, which you clearly haven't stopped, you're doing it right now. Then of course there's your more recent incursions in the trans communities, which I already addressed on !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com and you think the main complaint against you is pronouns? This is literally what DroneRights did, they would start shit and harass other people then claim peopel who called them out were being transphobic, it's what you're doing right now. Just in a less direct and more sealioning way.
Drag still has not complained, at all, about you not using drag’s pronouns. Drag’s post here is concerned with your statements against all nounself using trans people, your perception that trans people’s existence is an attack on others, and your harassment of drag by banning drag from random communities drag has never visited.
I've said that nounself pronouns are difficult and unintuitive for a lot of people, which they are, I am not shaming people for using them. Many people who do use them also use other pronouns or allow people to use their name because it is hard for some people, especially people with speech and language problems. Now you don't want to use other pronouns, but also your username is extremely NSFW, which makes it not an option especially in places where it would be inapropriate, and you've already expressed discontent about nicknames so you're basically asking people to not to refer to you at all.
Drag is curious why you didn’t say anything about your own actions in your comment, and just changed the subject to your perceived wrongdoing by drag. Do statements against thousands of trans people’s pronouns become okay when you have a story to tell about one single trans person doing a bad thing? You justified attacks on drag by pointing at this Drone Rights person, and now you’re justifying attacks on others by pointing at your stories about drag. Is that your opinion; that no trans person should do anything you don’t like if a bad trans person did it? That you’re allowed to harass drag for the actions of others?
aaand can't stop sealioning.
you think the main complaint against you is pronouns?
Drag doesn't care what complaints you have against drag. Drag is talking about your behaviour. Drag doesn't care that you want to change the subject to your grievances about drag. Drag gave you a chance to explain your actions and contextualise them, and you chose not to. You just chose more insults. You made one tangible point, and drag will address it:
Many people who do use them also use other pronouns or allow people to use their name because it is hard for some people, especially people with speech and language problems. Now you don’t want to use other pronouns, but also your username is extremely NSFW, which makes it not an option especially in places where it would be inapropriate, and you’ve already expressed discontent about nicknames so you’re basically asking people to not to refer to you at all.
Drag has not complained that you don't use drag's pronouns. Drag will not complain that you don't use drag's pronouns. If you want to refer to drag without pronouns, you are welcome to use drag's display name, Dragon Rider.
In addition, drag will clarify once again that the problem is not and has never been your use or disuse of any pronouns. The problem is your insistence that by having pronouns, drag is committing some kind of act of violence against you. Drag will post the screenshots of your comments again:
The first one is a lie that you are still telling when you pretend the use of drag's pronouns is the problem here. The second one is a complaint about thousands of trans people's identities.
You accused drag of sealioning when drag gave you a chance to explain dragself.
Sealioning (also sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity ("I'm just trying to have a debate"), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter.[1][2][3][4] It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate",[5] and has been likened to a denial-of-service attack targeted at human beings.
Fine. Drag will unambiguously avoid any sealioning and say: Go away. Do not defend your actions. Do not provide any evidence against what drag has shown here. Drag asked you if you wanted to, and you said no. Your answer is accepted. Please do not debate drag any further. Drag is already disappointed that you commented on this thread in the first place. You say you want to be left alone, and that you don't want any debate, and drag accepts this. Do not contact drag again.
If any admins are still reading after all this conversation: drag is happy to talk about the issue with you. But not with Draconic NEO. They have said all they wished to say.
If any admins are still reading after all this conversation: drag is happy to talk about the issue with you. But not with Draconic NEO. They have said all they wished to say.
I agree, we're done with this conversation, it was incredibly unprofessional for you to decide to create a public thread about this, possibly inuring further harassment against me as a result. Which is why such practice is discouraged but I think you knew that which is why you did it.
heyo, they also created a community aimed at harassing you: https://discuss.online/c/fuckdraconicneo
just so you know
Yeah I know I saw. I've been getting pings on almost all my accounts. fucker is even pinging my Mastodon accounts.
man sorry that's happening to you :/ That reaction is so overblown and childish
I agree, it's insanely immature and and extremely overblown. This person also seems extremely unstable 😬
Still sorry for you.
On the other hand, once this is settled, we can call this the Dragon Battle 😅
I have absolutely no stake in any of this, but I've seen this person and their alts around lemmy. They are extremely mentally ill.
That's next level
I think this has to be the worst person I've ever met on Lemmy. Maybe even the Fediverse as a whole. The only thing that beats them in all my experiences are the people who would call me an egg and misgender me in my discord DMs.
You have been asked not to contact drag again. You ignored drag. Please stop harassing drag.
