Finally got to the point where I cannot talk openly to my lib friends anymore.
Finally got to the point where I cannot talk openly to my lib friends anymore.
It's a situation that I have been expecting for a while, but I wasn't fully ready to accept it. Specifically it's one of my LGBTQ friends who honestly believes in the democrats will protect them and their partner. I have tried to make the point that both parties are eroding any sort of civility towards all marginalized groups, but fear seems to drive them more than logical observations. They make the excuse that change doesn't happen over night and that the left continues to grow and will have meaningful affects down the road. I fundamentally just don't agree with that idea and vocalize it regularly. More and more it is ending up in a circular argument where I am painted as unrealistic and my rhetoric (leftist rhetoric) is doing more harm than good because it promotes distrust in the only system we have to work with. I try to tell them it's kind of the whole point. We gotta start somewhere if we want to see a better, more representative system, but they are so hung up on the immediate future while simultaneously saying that my idealistic feelings are shortsighted and I cant expect change in the immediate future... The double-talk is wild, I know.
I am trying my hardest to stop from engaging at this point because on the most basic level we agree on a lot of stuff, but they are just way to wrapped up in the fear mongering of the democratic party. They know that the two party system is broken, they know that something drastic needs to change, but they also think that they are powerless to do anything except choose the lesser evil. It pains me because I am watching them do the same shit past generations have done, where they give up on their ideals for the sake of preserving the current status quo that they benefit from. I am legitimately watching them imply "fuck you, got mine" under the guise of civic duty and I hate it. I want nothing more than to be able to finally say "I told you so" without being a smug asshole about it and ruining our friendship.
Thanks for reading my rant. It's probably a bit disjointed, but the frustration is boiling over and I needed to vent to the only group of people that seems to understand the hopelessness of being a disenfranchised leftist.
The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.
For me it's the whole "the left is continuing to grow"
Liberals have been shifting to the right for years. The democratic president is endorsed by dick fucking cheyney, is running on more cruelty on the border, and has completely given up even discussing universal Healthcare, and has completely dropped the ball on abortion.
The liberals are objectively getting worse which is to be expected when their main strategy is justnconceding to republicans on everything.
And it doesn't even bother liberals, they'll tell you with a straight face that bidens the most pro environemnt pro union president in history you can tell them "were drilling more oil than anyone ever anywhere and every time there's a strike you liberals keep saying it's a Russian hoax to hurt democrats"
And they just roll their eyes and fucking act like they're so morally superior your real world examples don't count.
I know people say not to cut off the lib friends and I'm trying not to lose connections that have mattered to me, but it is hard to make myself bother with most of them anymore. I feel like they are just demonstrating they can't be relied upon.
What am I saying, their complete return to "normal" and pretending covid isn't dangerous is 100% demonstrating they can't be trusted
Talking to some friends last night and people were like "it has no right to be this close!" With like a tinge of fear. Just want to yell whose fault is that? Why doesn't Harris do ANYTHING to address the mountains of concerns people have... No it's allllllll stupid magas.
Another literally made the but she'll do less genocide argument
I only have a few friends who aren't lib brain poisoned. they have been hard to find, as some of the "leftists" are just about aesthetics and don't engage with any theory, so the glom onto whatever lib talking point reaches them on a visceral level and then regurgitate it whenever the topic is broached. i.e. "the country has right to defend itself"
the genocide in the Middle East has been more galvanizing than most and I really can't engage honestly with those who downplay it to save their own asses from an imagined genocide of their comfortable, financially secure, upper income asses within the highly developed core. like, sorry reality can't compete with the untethered nightmares of libs.
I am painted as unrealistic
This shit gets me. I get called "too idealistic" and my response is what does that even mean? I think it's too idealistic for the few to benefit from the work of the many. Seems unsustainable which fits right in to the definitions of idealistic. I think it's idealistic for the Dems to expect a vote when they can't give even token concessions. "Unrealistic" get the fuck out of here 70 years ago we'd be blowing ourselves up in a world war for some crusty declining nobles (and soon we might be told to do it again!) now we watch complete strangers appear to entertain us for 30 seconds and evaporate forever on tiktok wtf do we know about realistic.
This hollow "community" of Democrats will happily cannibalize anyone without a second thought. The least I expect from my lib friends is to vote third party or shut up. Capitalism is a disease. Thanks for ranting so I could rant too
Dunno what level of comfort your friend is at, but it really does affect how they react. It's really hard to find real connection for those of us living in Anglo countries.
I feel you. My convos with libs seem like I'm talking to a computer chat bot, the empathy and concern that I'd expect from a real person isn't there. Honestly I usually just limit my lib convos to something simple. For real connections, I find that people become better the further you go from the group in power. So look at middle class cishet white men, and go 180 from there. It's pretty hard to find a genuine person with 3 or more of the above characteristics, although I'm sure that exceptions exist.
More and more it is ending up in a circular argument where I am painted as unrealistic and my rhetoric (leftist rhetoric) is doing more harm than good because it promotes distrust in the only system we have to work with.
Noticing genocide is more socially unacceptable than committing it. Also, even recognizing a system is dehumanizing, don'tchaknow.
Thanks for reading my rant. It's probably a bit disjointed, but the frustration is boiling over and I needed to vent to the only group of people that seems to understand the hopelessness of being a disenfranchised leftist.
Right there with you. It's lonely enough already without having to worry about losing friends, and it hardly feels like I'm doing everything I can to fight back against the genociders when I can't even talk about it with my loved ones or get them on the right side.
Yeah I was about to make a similar post - just had a big debate with some older family friends at a party my parents had that are die-hard dems (which was nice, as they're way further left then most other people there).
They were aghast when I said I wasn't voting blue, and had no idea who Claudia or the PSL are, of course.
Got a lot of "this is the most important election ever" and "if he wins democracy is over" of course. But the one that really chapped my biscuits was saying that if he wins, then [my family member] will lose access to reproductive health care and IVF in particular.
So I said yeah right, neither side is going to change a damn thing about that, because they both see it as way too valuable of a carrot/stick to give up campaigning and fundraising on it. If the dems care so much about it, why haven't they actually done anything about it?
"Well Biden's wanted to, but he's been hamstrung by the extremist right!"
So what about those years when he had full congressional majority?
"Oh well yeah, I mean I guess he could have done more there..."
And then we got called away to the rest of the party and never got to continue.
Bonus points for my insistence that both parties intend on continuing the genocide - but ofc he is going to do it worse somehow. When I said I'm not going to vote for Genocide Light™️, they said, "Hell yeah I am! It's better than the other option!", and I sadly beat a dead horse a little more about there actually being more options available and maybe you actually don't have to put your stamp of approval on genocide-with-rainbow-flag-characteristics.
Also bonus-bonus points for one of the two (very sweet, kickass person generally) asking "So what does genocide mean again?" in a completely honest, non-hostile way, indicating that they simply had not engaged with even the thought of such a thing happening before this conversation.
And these are the two that always get in trouble for being too vocal about their left-ish political opinions at these functions.
Yep. This is how LGBT people in the US are cowed to the dems. With fear. With browbeating arguments to "safety" that never seems to materialize (and comes at the expense of the safety of others).
And it works because there genuinely are threats. Hate crimes, etc.
But its always the most comfortable members of the community that place their safety over solidarity. That's what kept me aligned, even before I read much theory, was seeing the absolute most beaten down people in society be the most eager to put themselves on the line when they were able to provide aid to others, or make a change or a statement. If they can do it what's my excuse?
its touched on in an old paper written during the 2014 israeli war on gaza that I really like (CW transphobia mentions):
More and more it is ending up in a circular argument where I am painted as unrealistic and my rhetoric (leftist rhetoric) is doing more harm than good because it promotes distrust in the only system we have to work with.
As much as I hate conservatives, you can at least level with them on the front of not trusting their government. They end up as hypocrites and fall in line with any real challenge to American hegemony, however, you can at least get them to admit the system doesn't function well for everyone.
Cut ties with everyone who watches corporate media (i.e. regularly ingests Western propaganda) during campaign seasons. Don't waste your sanity on people participating in synthetic social hysteria.
You can probably talk to them again a month after the election - especially if their preferred capitalist oligarch "wins".
Just point out the last time any progressive legislation was ever written at the federal level was gay marriage and bring them crashing down to earth. The party has zero interest in actually using the power it has to do good for everyone, they are content to fuck over everyone that isn't in a blue state, and everyone in blue states will be fucked over eventually. This isn't a case of IF, it's a case of WHEN, and that only by reckoning with this reality and committing to working for the change that is sorely needed can marginalised peoples truly get on the correct strategic path. The current strategic path being pushed is a dead end and the liberals are content to continue mis-selling it to you because you choose to be naive as a result of the very understandable fear that reckoning with this instills.
Their claims that we are shortsighted and idealist are projections of the naivity they know they are choosing because it's the only hope they have.
This is also a failure of the left though btw. The left is not offering hope, and until the left finds a way to offer hope people will continue to choose naivity if it feels like a possible hope to them.
The current sticking point with my wife is that it's about getting control of the Supreme Court back, given the assumption that Alito and Thomas will retire/die and (a) the Democrats won't appoint Alito's/Thomas's preferred successors in the name of unity, and (b) the Republicans won't hold open the vacancy to get concessions and/or wait until a Republican president comes into office as they successfully did with Garland. Refusing to budge because of Palestine is "making this about me" and failing to understand that Harris needs the Jewish vote in PA (I pointed out that she also needs the Muslim vote in Michigan, no response).
Nobody else, even fairly close friends, has opined on politics around me and I don't bring it up, so I'm not sure what everyone around me is thinking.
Permanently Deleted
I am proably gonna get banned for writing this, but be fucking realistic. I know it isn't perfect, I know other parties exist, and I know the system is corrupt, but man up and deal with it.
The election is near, Trump has a very high chance of winning, and the whole country is on the tipping point of becoming a fascist regime.
Can you please use your brain and think for even just a little bit? Kamala isn't perfect, but in the meantime it's gonna hold together the country, and then you have 4 years to organize and vote for a better party, but in the meanwhile, voting anyone who isn't kamala is voting for Trump.
Go on with the downvotes, I don't care
