traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns @hexbear.net DOPESMOKERDENG [they/them] @hexbear.net 1 mo. ago

Update regarding Hexbear's misogyny problem - planned actions and request for feedback

Hi comrades, want to give you all an informal update on the discussions around the site's misogyny problems that've been happening over the last several days. I wanna make sure you know that the admin/mod team has seen all of that discourse and we've been actively discussing solutions in the matrix mod chat. We're taking this shit very seriously and acknowledge that we haven't used a heavy enough hand on misogynistic rhetoric. As some of you saw we nuked that cheating thread from a couple weeks ago and handed out temp bans to the most egregious offenders. Idk how that was allowed to run it's course but we apologize for that oversight. We're going to do better.

We've come up with some ideas for how to improve this part of the site culture and we want to get suggestions from y'all as well, since the alarm was sounded on this by our beautiful c/traa posters to begin with. Our ideas so far include:

A zero-tolerance policy towards any even remotely misogynistic/patriarchal posts or comments, as too much has slipped through the cracks on that, establishing a clear protocol for bans for violating rules against misogyny, and ideally tracking repeat offenders in a way that makes deciding a course of action easy when they reoffend.
Uphold TC69 thought by starting up a book club (and hopefully more to follow) on feminist theory and encouraging mass participation, particularly from the he/him's on the site. "The Will to Change" by bell hooks has been suggested by multiple people as a great starting point but please feel free to suggest any other works.
Relaunching /c/menby with a trusted educated mod team and a specific focus on countering mainstream narratives about masculinity, relationships and sex that breed reactionary, patriarchal attitudes
Encouraging [namely femme] participation in /c/womenby and taking steps to revitalize that sub as an excellent source of discussion on feminism and intersectionality
Holding another mod drive to get more folks into mod positions in our communities who can help weed out reactionary attitudes
Encouraging users to use the report button often on any post that seems even remotely sus, with the promise that no one's going to be punished for "report abuse" for reporting posts in obvious good faith

Please let me know your thoughts on the above or any other ideas you have for making the site better, safer and more inclusive for our femme comrades. Once we've fully hammered out plans and updated policy we plan to make an announcement post highlighting these changes for the whole userbase. Thank you all for being here and being who you are feminism trans-heart

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Just so as I am clear. What was the discourse that was going off rails so I know what kinda stuff to avoid doing in the future.
- https://hexbear.net/post/3558444
  
  check modlog since most of the misogyny was removed
  
  Actually, the thread is borderline unreadable now since almost half of the comments were making excuses
  
  I wish I hadn’t wiped my comment on that thread which still sits at the top of the deleted post, but the gist of it was that OP should find out about the marriage situation first before unloading what he assumed was the “truth” on the husband.
  
  There are legitimate reasons why women had to hide certain information, for example abusive husband, and that the woman he was having an affair with could already have plans of leaving the husband but could not tell OP for various reasons.
  
  Basically, OP assumed that it was a simple case of “promiscuous woman cheating on her husband” and did not even bother to find out the situation (again assuming that the woman in question would simply “lie” because that’s what women like to do, huh). If this turned out to be an abusive husband case, then she’s pretty much screwed over by the OP.
  
  (As I mentioned in the last thread, there have been several times I seriously thought about quitting this site because some of the misogynistic comments can be really uncomfortable to read. I stayed mostly for the news mega these days (best place on Hexbear) and steered clear of any dating/relationship threads whenever I can)
  
  I'm happy you're still here I enjoy reading your comments.
  
  So much male privilege in that thread.
  
  Like this notion...
  
  he deserves to know he was cheated on.
  
  Bruh, so you know he isn't going to react well to that information, you know she chose not to tell him, and you haven't had a discussion with her about it.
  
  If you have been around men AT ALL before, it would be extremely obvious this is a situation that can quickly escalate to real physical danger. And he just fucking exposes her to that danger without even trying to get more information before making a weird escalation.
  
  THEN THE CONSENSUS IS DEFENDING THAT!
  
  I dunno, I expected better from my fellow Hexbears. You'd think a materialist outlook would make it so people would be inclined to prioritize physical safety of over idealistic moral self righteousness.
  
  Idk if being poly makes me numb to the degree to which jealousy and possessiveness pervade normative cishet relationships, but I can't even imagine feeling so motivated by empathizing with someone's jealousy to the point where I risk pissing him off and hurting her or trying to fight me.
  
  (BTW, very glad you stuck around because it seems you're having a positive impact on site culture that will hopefully spark much needed self-crit and change. Also great name btw)
  
  Oh I remember that thread I figured it was a PTSD landmine and noped out after reading a couple comments
  
  we should probably add rules banning any triggering material without some serious CWs or spoilers
  
  That's already a thing its just not everyone takes it seriously, trans mega has been almost perfect with it though
  
  Did get the admins to add a certain bad word to the filter though which is greatly appreciated
- Guy found out the women he was sleeping with was married and told the husband.
  
  The unacceptable misogyny being talked about is saying that you shouldn't cheat on your partner if you've agreed to be monogamous.
  
  First temp siteban of the thread, thanks for not absorbing anything being talked about bud
  
  got one
  
  more proof having 30+ mods is the way to go, 8 minute response time, fastest draw in the west
  
  The unacceptable misogyny being talked about is saying that you shouldn't cheat on your partner if you don't want to get assaulted
  
  Permanently Deleted
  
  People were minimizing and obfuscating it, yes
  
  Permanently Deleted
  
  why are you like this? also petition for admins to start banning or at least naming and shaming ppl who upbear this shit
  
  if they do I'm really gonna need to change my upvote habit I tend to just upvote as a "i've already read this comment", i do try to unupvote dogshit comments like that but sometimes i forget to
  
  yeah same, feels like i did my diligence interacting in the discourse. i sometimes go back and un-upbear some comments
  
  it's that but it also makes it much much easier to track down new comments, it's vital to being able to keep up with the news mega tbh lol
  
  yeah def for the megathreads. it helps me swap devices and keep sanity since i feel like i'm re-reading or imagining re-reading stuff
  
  You can also star it
  
  i use my saved section though, it would make it unusable
  
  Damn, this is a really good idea.
  
  Same, I upvoted the comment initially because I had no idea about the previous thread and wanted to know what the user was talking about. I've now removed the upvote.
  
  Theres dozens of us
  
  dont worry ma'am everythings taken care of, mods on the case
  
  appreciate the quick response:) figured it would be gone in minutes lol, hilarious to wade into this thread and start doing a misogyny
  
  Fastest mods in the west
  
  https://hexbear.net/comment/5439533
  
  man that's weird garbage shoot was somehow able to leave a comment that didnt get removed that expressed disapproval for cheating almost like that is a complete misrepresentation of the situation
  
  the swine has been taken care of sir, mods on the job
  
  we love our mods and admins folks
  
  I totally missed this whole thread, and probably a good thing I did.
  
  My knee jerk reaction is yes, a partner should know...but...i think that i am also blinded by misogyny. I dont know if i (and other cis he hims) would have the same reaction with different genders involved. Obviously, this woman was not having her needs met by her husband and it isnt anyone elses place to disturb their relationship. Especially in a way that is to make the woman look bad, bc in misogynistic culture it is always the womans fault.
  
  I look forward to the book club and unraveling more of my misogyny. I also hope that having my eyes opened more in this regard will help me be a better husband, because i think my deep misogyny negatively affects how i treat my wife at times.
  
  it isnt anyone elses place to disturb their relationship
  
  i dont think this is the correct take away. the issue is that men are way more likely to snap and seriously harm or even kill their partner in this kind of scenario, especially if they are already abusive in some way, so you should do some investigating first before you put someone at risk like that
  
  And also, we are quick to say "a husband has the right to know" without realizing that very statement upholds patriarchy and the husbands ownership of his wife
  
  A wife also has the right to know if her husband is cheating. It's not about ownership, it's about STDs. Everyone is entitled to make informed decisions about who they have sex with.
  
  I know situations can be complex but safe sex and informed consent is the backbone of the LGBTQ+ community and I don't think we should throw it away to get some extra dunks.
  
  saying he has a "right to know" would be dumb yeah. I don't think it would be morally wrong to not say anything and just encourage the woman in this scenario to break the relationship off herself. but that still doesn't mean you shouldn't tell him if you can determine it would be safe to do so. despite patriarchal norms, i still believe there is a responsibility for you to not cheat on your partner if you agree to be in a monogamous relationship. it would be very helpful to him to know so that he doesn't get blindsided in the future. he's a human being too is all I'm trying to say, I guess
  
  Can't really know if it's safe honestly- you'd have to know the guy very well, but then this type of thing wouldn't happen if you knew him well. I would just leave it be and break things off.
  
  Permanently Deleted
  
  I feel like when people say that they mean "a partner has a right to know". I doubt people would change their opinion if it was a man cheating.
  
  problem is we dont have to worry as much about the man being beaten to death by the female partner (unless context signals that we should)
  
  Full disclosure,I had one of my comments removed for misogyny in that thread,mainly due to poor wording,but also misogynist braiworms I'm trying to combat.
  
  That being said,I held something similar to that stance, because I see a relationship as an agreement between two parties and I believe both are entitled to be made aware of any breaches in said agreement. What I only half heatedly acknowledged was that this agreement is not on even ground in the case of a cishet relationship in a patriarchal society and that one party is significantly more at risk if they cheat than the other and does not have the same freedom to end the agreement with the other party because they might be subjected to physical or verbal violence,and thus have to look for alternative ways to get away from a dissatisfactory arrangement.
  
  I understand that in patriarchal society this ends up being mostly a ownership contract over the person with less leverage, so I have rescinded all of my judgements over the situation presented in that post. However,in a hypothetically more equitable arrangement, where the thereat of violence is not a factor and both parties feel safe ending the agreement at will, would doing what OP did be ethical or not?
  
  The reason I'm creating this hypothetical in my mind is because I want to understand if my understanding of what a relationship is incorrect and rooted in patriarchal societal conditioning or if there is something that I'm missing. Again,I am wholeheartedly opposed to the belief that any relationship is a contract of ownership, I see it more as a mutually beneficial agreement that benefits two (or more, depending on the type) parties who act in their mutual self interest and choose to cooperate and draw benefits such as emotional fulfilment while also agreeing to assist each other in times of need and potentially develop themselves from a personal and intellectual standpoint.
  
  Of course,I don't discount more casual arrangements,but this is my take on what is traditionally considered a "relationship".I would like to hear other people's perspectives on the matter and get a better understanding on this.
  
  Oh,I forgot to mention,my judgement of the matter was purely based on what I thought was ethical. I do not believe in moralist thinking on how cheating is sinful.
  
  I am ESL,so if I have expressed myself in an unclear manner,I would be happy to clarify what I mean,and clear up any understandings.
  
  Idk if this is the right thread to relitigate this point of view >.>
  
  My apologies then,I did not wish to stir up anything
  
  I can delete the comment if that is the case
  
  deleting is best, thank you for your cooperation and self awareness on the matter
  
  Permanently Deleted
  
  Well,I did not agree with how it was handled even when making that initial comment,but I worded it very poorly
  
  Please inform me if I need to delete the comment in case it ends up creating any unneeded discourse
  
  I would assume a comrade means that any partner being cheated on deserves to know and just said husband because that's who was being cheated on in this context. Doubt there are many people on this site with hyper-conservative views on marriage (maybe?)
  
  I guess i mean, there is likely some other stuff going on in their relationship, but now the dynamic has been disturbed in a way to be biased to the husband. Now he is wronged, so whether he is physically abusive, or uses it to get off of playing child support, or whatever other outcome it has tipped the scales towards him more then they already are for a man.
  
  The answer from me is that none of us on an internet forum really have enough information to properly assess what is going on with regards to relationship dynamics (if there's abuse/manipulation going on, which partner is potentially abusive or manipulative, etc) so we should err on the side of caution, and it's also why you should never take dating or relationship advice from the internet.
  
  its also very bad to just out the cheating to the husband because that woman could be assaulted for it
  
  Yeah, i mean its bad for so many reasons and stems from our need to control women.

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