I pay $600/month for my "employer provided" health insurance
idk man I just need to vent i guess
my employer "provides" health insurance in exchange for my time and labor, and for that great privilege they take $600 out of my paycheck every month (covers me, my wife, and our 1yo son)
that's half our monthly mortgage payment; it's 2/3 our monthly grocery bill
why?
Your employer is likely paying another $600/mo for you as well, and singles/couples working for the company are actually subsiding your threesome.
The insurer-first system a stupid scheme that shouldn't exist in the first place.
This is correct.
In the US during WW2 employers couldn't keep employees because of wage competition. This made war production extremely inefficient and slow. The War Labor Board instituted wage ceilings for critical jobs. But, they allowed employers to compete with health benefits. Employment and healthcare became intertwined.
After WW2 the War Labor Board was dissolved and wage ceilings removed. FDR, who'd proposed and implemented The New Deal and led us through WW2, proposed the Second Bill of Rights aka the Economic Bill of Rights:
This would've disaccociated employment and medical care. However, FDR was labeled a socialist and authoritarian, demonized. We the People bought into the propaganda.
That's how it's been for eighty years: The leftists propose the same platform FDR did. And, they're told to shut up for disturbing the idiots running in fear of one bad choice or another. All that's changed is the efficiency and effectiveness of the hegemony's propaganda.
big government guy proposed big government solution to unintended consequence of bad decisions by big government, is confused when people don't want more big government meddling.
the real problem here is that people forgot about what the issue was and how it happened, and years later are clamoring for government to "do something". and extra unfortunately, at this point it may be too late for any solution other than letting government just take control of all of it; i can't see any other way to get all the shitty government decisions and interventions rolled back.
The US incarnation of capitalism has obviously failed. I'm all for revolution. But, I've no doubt that the vast majority of society would willingly give up their freedom, once again. Humans have been doing the same thing for millennia.
If you make less than $103,000 / year (family of 3) and pay more than 9.5% of your household gross income on healthcare premiums, you will likely save thousands by using your state's healthcare marketplace. You are likely eligible because they fixed the family glitch, now the 9.5% applies to the cost for family rather than individual coverage as before.
Although the subsidies will likely end after 2025 if dems don't retain a majority in house/senate.
It could easily save you thousands of dollars a year... Like I'm 100% of it... Ask me how I know, lol. Please look into it. I think you have to wait til open enrollment in December? or when your healthcare renews annually. You might be able to do it immediately due to "hardship". I don't know the specifics of your situation but I'm pretty sure you and a lot of other people here would save a lot of money. I would talk with a healthcare_gov or your state agency agent, they get paid by the gov't to help you through it at no cost to you. You can also get a low HDHP and get your own HSA to essentially pay no taxes for medical expenditures. I hear fidelity is good, due to no fees.
Speaking of which, is there an active financial advice community on Lemmy (like that old site that should not be named) like /c/financialplanning or something like that?
I realize I'm in /c/antiwork so it goes without saying it'd be nice if we have universal healthcare without all this baloney money being siphoned to these criminal insurance companies. Just trying to help anyone out in a similar situation. ;)
Incredibly helpful information. You don't need to preface for a shitty situation you did not create or have the power to control. You've your part by providing care and empathy in the form of advice that might help some of us.
We got to use what we got for now. Can't survive on wishes and wants.
The private insurance industry is going to price themselves out of existence eventually. People are going to realize they can save an enormous amount of money by having the government act as payer for their healthcare instead of corporations trying to turn a profit. Healthcare already does not lend itself to distribution via capitalism, you don't show up to the ED and wave money around to bid on your bed. It should be based on need.
As long as people are allowed to go into debt, this industry and others like it will exist forever
Still waiting for that. Been my hope since I went on this $250-500 a month health insurance journey during my first job in 2005.
It's likely 1/3rd to 1/2 of what the insurance actually costs.
Insurance numbers in the US are all made up bullshit numbers designed to funnell money from the working class to the rich.
As an employer I would LOVE to be shed of this system. I have no reason to be involved in the health care of my employees, and given the state of health care in America there is literally no upside for my business. It's all bad.
Unfortunately our system requires it, though. If I didn't offer health care and instead just increased the base salary I wouldn't be competitive. People would think I was trying to pull a fast-one on them, and few people in America know how to get health care on their own. It's a mess.
Our "lords" have already told us why things are the way they are if you look at the "reasoning" behind why the Senate let the child tax credits expire.
"People wouldn't have an incentive to work."
They literally use healthcare to chain you to a job. I have 3 coworkers that I know of off hand that have all said they literally are only working here for the health insurance...
This system can go to hell.
"People wouldn't have an incentive to work."
That is just their attempt at rationalization. The real reason is much simplier: money, money, money. Lobbyists, Super PACs and the donor class own our politicians. The rich pay for their political campaigns and bribe our politicians in some interesting and creative ways. For example, giving a politician a million directly is illegal, but if he writes a book and then you have the SuperPAC buy a million copies of the politicians book that is somehow legal.
"People wouldn't have an incentive to work."
As someone who lives in a place with universal healthcare, I would like to tell these people that many people here still work.
You know, food and shelter are also good incentives.
Well the problem is that you are viewing it from a "normal person" vantage... you need to think of your employees as indentured servants, basically slaves you don't get to actually whip.
Once you get the proper Capitalist vantage point, you realize you can use this "benefit" to squeeze the life out of your employees, specially any of them with Chronic conditions or just a family, as they are hostages to the Health Care you provide!
Extra painful that the current system is biased towards large employers. Easier to absorb that overhead if the business is large.
That's right. For a company greater than 50 employees the insurance companies charge a group rate that is the same for everyone. Fewer than 50 and each employee is billed on their and/or their family's merits.
Because I have fewer than 50 employees, most of my family employees use their spouse's insurance from larger company than mine. And there's little I can do about it.
For my small business I'm just as screwed over as the employee. If I hire a guy I can't (and don't want to) ask him him or her health questions, but because I pay half of my employee's insurance I'm hiring with an unknown cost component. That employee might have a costly pre-existing condition for all I know.
Best thing that ever happened to me was almost dying. Now all of my healthcare, everything, is taken care of.
That's how fcked the world is.
This is madness. Where I’m from, we have a nationalised healthcare system and yet my employer offers private healthcare coverage for no additional cost to myself (free)!
yeah that sounds like an employer actually providing a benefit in exchange for you working for them
You're dumb as a rock. And so is the yurobro.
In those European countries the employee often costs 20-30% more than their stated salary.
There's absolutely no such thing as "my employer gives me extra insurance free of charge". It's not free. They're paying for it.
As I worked for a small startup I know all the numbers. I received X gross on paper, the company had expenses of 1.2X, and I got 0.6X on my bank account. Oh boy, gotta love those "free" health insurances, unemployment benefits, paid sick days etc.
i get the feeling that society really doesnt want to spend the money to give people healthcare.
It's 2 fold, one party doesn't want to takeaway private insurance because of the donor money. The other doesn't want "inferior" people to get health care.
A double edge sword unfortunately.
Well, at least here in the USA, we already are spending the money. Getting worse results than the rest of the world and spending more money on it. Because private health insurance is a joke and we're all the punchline.
Insurance is extra expensive when you have a family in the US. I'm single and my monthly cost is less than $100 a month. Having a family is more expensive for everything.
But WHy dON't YoUNg poPLE wANT tO sTarT a FaMILy?!?!
My options at my last 3 jobs have all been more than 1400/month.
Do you think your taxes would go up $17k per year if America got universal healthcare? I'm going to say probably not.
I'd gretly prefer universal healthcare.
It’s bullshit, but your employer may be covering your insurance almost completely and that 600 goes toward your family. At least that’s how my insurance works. Again still bullshit that health care costs that much and then they won’t cover shit when you need it.
that's an interesting (and stupid) possibility that I hadn't considered
Universal healthcare would probably not cost you that much with taxes. But instead a private company gets to reap all the benefits of your money.
And then deny your access to lifesaving health care, don't forget that part.
Private Company gets all your money and then gets to say "no, you really don't need that operation, rub some dirt on it and take a salt pill" and then proceed to Scrooge McDuck into a pile of money.
The concept that you have coverage for a thing and it gets denied is baffling to me. How are Americans not trading in the streets over the systems your parents built?
Sometimes your medical team decides you need a procedure, but some guy with a spreadsheet or an AI that is wrong 90% of the time decides you don't.
The fact that insurance is provided through employers in the US is strange. Other products are purchased directly. Presumably there's some advantage a sort of collective bargaining, but it doesn't seem to work out that way for this, in part because the employees aren't really part of the bargaining and in many places employees needs are too diverse to reach am agreement that works well for everyone.
Better solutions aren't coming any time soon. You can possibly make some better choices though. Although, not participating in the health insurance is borderline line crazy, dental and vision plans don't make sense for a lot of people. I would pay more for my dental plan than I pay to visit a dentist, including two annual cleanings, periodic x-rays, and infrequent work like cavities - basically the care you need to maintain tooth health. I don't get the dental plan. You can figure out your own out of pocket costs and see if a dental plan works for you. Going to a dentist that is not in an insurance network is the way to go when doing this. Offices in network are required by the insurance company to charge exorbitant fees to out-of-network customers (the dentists don't get the same pay from the insurance company though). So say a normal dentist charges $200 for a cleaning. A dentist in a network would be required to charge $400 or something nuts. If a patient is in network, it will say $400 on the EOB, and that the customer is responsible for $50, making it look like the customer saved $350. The insurance company only gives the dentist $150 though, so the dentist gets $200 anyway, the customer really only saved $150. The insurance company gets a bunch of money in annual fees from the employer.
You can see if it makes sense for you. Not everyone will be in the same situation, and maybe it doesn't eork out. If you have an option for an FSA or something similar, this option is even more attractive, since all those expenses can be paid from untaxed income, whereas the money taken out of your paycheck to cover insurance is after tax I believe.
Good point about dental costs. But insurance is just that, a plan in case you need more than the usual care, so paying a bit more might be worth it.
However, dental insurance specifically I feel is a racket, as it seems the more costly the procedure, the less percentage you get covered. When major dental costs are cheaper to fly to other countries and get them done than to use insurance in the US, something is wrong. I haven't gotten my issues taken care of for years because I ran into that roadblock where I simply can't afford to pay "my share", even though I pay in plenty to the family coverage for everyone else.
FSA is a bit of a racket too. If you have a set plan in place and use the money correctly, it does work. Most people don't look at it that hard though, and set aside an amount assuming it can be used as needed, later discovering that some things can be used from one part, while others can't until a part is paid out, much like a deductible. I think it works well for those needing regular medical help, but if you don't...you lose a chuck of money, with only a bit rolling over for a few months.
In short...health care shouldn't be this hard and complex. It's made that way for profit.
All insurance is paying to reduce risk, which is why I said it would be borderline crazy to not have general health coverege - that's a lot of risk. Dental insurance for the most part covers routine costs, not high risk scenarios. Things like oral cancer are covered by more general plans. So I think largely I agree that dental insurance is a racket. However, I'm sure it makes sense for at least some people so it's hard to make a blanket statement that no one shoud have it.
It’s a weird situation caused by WW2. Due to wage laws, higher wages couldn’t be offered. So they started to offer insurance. It caught on and became the standard.
It's caused by both major parties being assets to the billionaire class, and working for them, against us.
My aunt's in for some really critical care. It's touch-and-go, and after multiple procedures, she's maybe turned the corner. It'll be 3 weeks of a room (1 in a private room) stay, going on maybe 5 procedures (removal of this, stop the internal bleeding there, investigate cause of this other thing, etc) and standard nursing care with the beep machines.
$0
No monthly premium/payment . $0
Our conservatives think they can pitch a more cost-effective (cheap) care, and stupid selfish yokels will agree, but the rest of us like the idea where the entirely of the cost of healthcare has already been paid.
Mine is about the same for family coverage, and the shocking thing is that it's pretty good relative to the market -- my previous employer was about ~100/mo cheaper for an equivalent HDHP plan, but I've seen much, much worse.
Honestly, though, even more than the cost (having run the numbers, the tax I'd pay in a European country to cover similar services is about the same, all things considered) is the sheer level of friction that insurers inject into the healthcare system. You have to get a referral to a specialist even if you know you need to see one. You have to get insurance authorization for specialty treatments. You have to think about deductibles and out-of-pocket-maximums, and Lord help you if you start having complex medical problems around the end of the year and the maximums reset in the middle of your treatment!
We pay out of pocket for a direct primary care pediatrician for our kid (on top of his insurance, to cover any meds or emergencies) and the fact that there's no insurance to deal with means that it's vastly easier to get a hold of her to get a medical opinion whenever there's a bad bump or a strange rash that needs a professional opinion. It's shocking to see how things could be if insurance companies and PBMs and for-profit hospital networks hadn't inserted themselves in between patients and doctors, with a sole eye towards making sure they pay out at little as humanly possible while maybe keeping patients alive in the process.
US-specific: The ACA (healthcare.gov) subsidizes healthcare insurance costs based on income. Especially in cases where you income is low this can be an awesome deal. Folks making $35k annually get stellar premium costs, deductibles, and out of pocket maximums. As income increases, the subsidies ramp down.
Unaffordable coverage: If your employer's plan is considered unaffordable, you might be eligible for premium tax credits through the Marketplace. The affordability test considers the cost of self-only coverage and family coverage. For example, if your share of the premium for your spouse and children is more than 8.39% of your household income in 2024, their coverage might be considered unaffordable.
I pay $700/month for non-subsidized bronze tier marketplace crap. This shit needs to end.
You could probably do better buying insurance off the ACA marketplace, even without premium assistance if your job didn't offer insurance.
I pay the same and it covers next to nothing. I'm done paying my medical bills. If they want money I'm insured figure it out with them and don't bother me. I have insurance so my child can. If I could I'd have just them covered. It's significantly cheaper for me not to have it
You are getting down voted because you said the dirty private word, but you are entirely right.
Id say the bigger problem might be your employer Heath insurance company can tell you no to opting out.
Damn it's really that cheap?
I'm from a place in Europe. Had complicated surgery recently. I technically made money from it. And once the scar and minor disability is calculated, I'll probably make even more. To put things in perspective, I mean.
You're kidding me, right? I lived in a few of those "best healthcare in the world" countries, and I was paying 400-600€ per month. Forcefully. By law.
The healthcare costs afterwards are much lower than in the US exactly because this system exists. But neither OP nor you have even the basics right on how and why those markets are shaped to be this way.
Instead you live in a fairytale world where in the US an evil employer deducted 600$ from your paycheck to pay for your health insurance, while in some universal healthcare countries it's just "free".
So, funnily enough, there's as usual here an army of lemmings upvoting your BS and downvoting me. While the healthcare in Europe is affordable specifically because the government forcefully takes about 600$ out of your paycheck and gives to the insurance. And neither you nor the employer have any chance to say no to that.
They pay $600 a month for insurance and STILL pays doctor bills. I also pay 600 a month and my yearly max out of pocket is $2500 per family member. In the EU the pay nothing other than taxes(maybe some small fees but not much at all) And from searching a few websites the max you will pay in Germany is 7.3 percent of your income capped at €62100 for a max monthly insurance cost of €377.77($420.70 USD)
So, you're saying anyone in Germany with an above average salary is forced to pay 400$ out of their salary for their healthcare insurance? Isn't this exactly what OP complains about, or can you not logic at all?
Did I or OP say anything about out-of-pocket? Do you actually know anything about the insurance market and do you realize that your co-pays are only that low because this forced system exists?
looks like it's not only our US friends who knows jack shit about how universal healthcare works
When I do my annual determination of the best plan, I always look at my total cost if I maxed out copays and deductible. Even as an old fart, HSA looks incredibly cheap because the premiums are so low. How ever, in many circumstances I don't reach my out of pocket limits.
P.s. you pulled 7% number out of your ass. It's exactly as I explained the "visible" part of the deductible. The actual number is precisely double, again as explained.
So, in total you might have a salary of 50k and you'll see 300 being deducted every month. Even though in fact the employer will have to also pay 300 to the insurance, making your actual gross salary 53.5k, and the actual deductible to be 600€.
I wanna see Lemmy's face when they'll realize this is not a singular incident and with all the various social security systems and taxes combined they'll end up with receiving on their bank account some 40-45% of what left their employer bank account to keep them employed.
But oh boy "600$ got deducted, corporate fascism, our USA is broken, please go look at the universal healthcare countries it's soo much better, I promise".
It actually is if you're poor. And if you're somewhere, where your deductible is 600$, you would've been much better off with an American system. Might not be ideal from a societal point of view, but you as an individual who has the means to use a 600$/m private insurance will absolutely be much better off.
And, so, believe it or not, Americans on those private corporate plans get a much, much better healthcare than folks in the same salary range enjoying the universal healthcare.
And if you don't understand how, why, and what's at play behind regulated and deregulated health insurance markets, then you do not qualify to be anti-work.
Why don't you try? I'm sure you'd do a bang-up job explaining.
It's kinda like this: you walk dogs for a living, you vote left hoping that they'll come to power and print a lot of money and just pay for everything you need, one day your dream comes true and you wake up in Venezuela.
And as to why all sane countries have a forced universal healthcare insurance that will deduct from your paycheck exactly as OP described, and will do as an obligation by law, you can consider me copy-pasting this thing as an explanation:
It is definitely bullshit, but your employer isn't a winner here either, they're also paying out $600 a month for your $1200/month health insurance.
The real problem here is why the fuck does health insurance cost as much as housing in this country?
The biggest kick in the balls is that insurance still doesn't cover shit. There's still co-pays, tons of things that aren't covered, out of network, maximum use of services, and anything large will almost certainly be denied by default. The co-pays alone are often as much as the service should cost.
Health insurance is a parasite. Profiting (massively) by being a gatekeeper to good health is pure evil.
Dr. Glaucomflecken's Youtube Skit series on US healthcare has really shown me how fucked up it is...
Sure, the Canadian government is stealing my paycheque, yadda yadda yadda. Still my health, dental, life supplemental insurance plan costs $800/year and most routine stuff like checkup exams, basic drugs, basic procedures, is free or is in the tens of dollars that I need to pay.
Line must go up or rich people angry.
Or more. A lot more.
I pay $700/mon for a family for health only, not including prescriptions, dental, or vision
Employer contribution is $1600/mon
That’s insane
I'm surprised large companies haven't pushed back on it.
I didn't know much about that side of the insurance pyramid, but I don't think I've ever seen anything about the companys part fighting it in the news.
Or more.
Just doing mine now (open enrollment time). No changes to what I had this year, but had a 20% price increase to just under $600.
My employer is paying $3200 for my coverage (family plan, to be clear). Companies should be in wide support of universal healthcare.
ACA institutionalized the health insurance industry as having some broad legally protected powers to fleece the American public. And there is no recourse or alternative besides getting healthcare outside of the country.
Pharma industry is the second parasite that enjoys similar legal protections.
Medical Community sold their asses but especially doctor types... Decent doctors don't survive anyway, but this is standard for any industry. Worker needs protects if we expect them to do their job properly... Ain't nobody got energy to battle the orphan crushing machine 40 hours per week
Then, we have federal government that's essentially enabling all of this due to the above clowns capturing regime whores in congress.
This is the standard regime model and most industries are going this way if not already there...
Oil, banking... Tech is trying it too, the 🤡 companies "want to be regulated"
Corpos like having a blank check from the state to fuck the peasants.
It ain't just US issues, apparently UK parasites are getting that spot quicker than the US nepo babies.
The fuckening will only gets worse.
It was already like that before the ACA.
I'm sure Trump's concepts of a plan will fix all these problems
Housing costs more than $2000 a month now 😭
More like why do both cost so much? Housing is dramatically cheaper in the good countries.
The way capitalist free markets are supposed to self-regulate is by customers refusing to buy goods and services which are too expensive. But when the alternative to buying those goods and services is dying in the street, understandably people can't reasonably refuse.
Capitalism. 40% of Apple's total revenue goes to shareholders just for existing. Latestagecapitalism is like having a severe tape worm infection. The rich take most of the wealth we create without doing any of the work
To be fair, health insurance is equally expensive in Europe. We just discount it a lot for low income families and above average pays a lot more to substitute that missing money.
Source?
Then that doesn't sound "equally expensive" if it's discounted for everyone that needs it discounted.
Not when the option in the US is "then don't have healthcare"