TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name @lemmy.world

4mo ago

Who did you hate the most?

Winn always made my skin crawl!

186 comments

Come on, Pulaski wasn't that bad. She even had a decent character arc to become likeable. Winn though.. yeah we hate her.
- She was one of the only characters to have true growth. I loved her. Plus, Diana Muldaur is awesome. Still with us at 86!
- Are you saying Winn didn't have character arc?
  She had the biggest arc in startrek and it was masterfully acted...
  
  From disliked to loathed is still growth.
  
  I have nothing against her actress. She played wonderfully. I really loved to hate her character. This overzealous and overtly jealous priest.
- The Elders tell me Pulaski was supposed to be “unlikable” but in a gruff, McCoy dammit-i’m-a-doctor kind of way.
  But the fact that that wasn’t possible to do (and wouldn’t have worked if it was) apparently didn’t stop them from trying.
  The sophomore slump hits everybody.
  
  I think they were trying to build a Pulaski-Data relationship that mirrored the McCoy-Spock relationship, where McCoy would say something shockingly racist like calling Spock a green-blooded hobgoblin, but then Spock would insult him right back and it was all in good fun so it was "okay." The problem was that Data wasn't able to give as good as he got, so it came across as Pulaski bullying the sweet autistic kid, which did not work as well as McCoy-Spock.
- with every rewatch of TNG, i come to appreciate Pulaski more and more. her exchanges with Moriarty, in particular, make for an enjoyable watch.
- She even had a decent character arc to become likeable.
  Her whole arc was supposed to explore the idea of a kind-of rational and legitimate hatred, then see where it led.
  
  That's what made the latest season of Orville so fucking good.
  
  It wasn't just that she became likeable. Its that the guiding principles of the Planetary Union usher the crew towards a better galaxy, even when that path isn't immediately clear from the outset.
  
  While I like your analysis, the comment you're responding to was referring to Pulaski's arc, not Charlie's.
- Pulaski was a better Doctor on her worst day than Beverly ever could be.
  
  Come on now, I don’t want to get in an argument with a dumbass, but the Beverley character had some fine moments.
  I’ll give you ghost sex, and collapsing universes, but she was pleasant. Really she was there for to give Picard more emotional dynamism.
  Pulaski was kinda baller though, I liked her. She had opinions and wasn’t afraid to express them. Even better she would reevaluate them upon have more data. I have a 3D printer named after her. I print my with my favorite plastic on it, TPU.
  
  The problem with Pulaski was that she was just McCoy with a vagina
  
  I don't remember Polaski reversing the assimilation process on Picard.
- Yeah she had character and was interesting. Crusher had hot redhead. I liked Crusher but would have preferred Pulaski stick around.
- My child...
  
  Noooooooooooooo~

Yeah, but you're supposed to dislike Winn, she's the villain. Her acting was perfect for the role.
- Personally I absolutely love Winn ...... because I hate her character so much.
  As soon as I see her in an episode I know I'm gonna enjoy it because she'll leave a lasting memory for me as to why I dislike her so much. Louise Fletcher is such a beautiful actress because she makes you forget you're watching a TV show and makes you absolutely want to step into an air lock and blast yourself out into the vacuum of space just to leave her presence.
  
  I will never stop loving to hate Louise Fletcher characters. She was amazing.
  
  She reminds me of Joffrey from GoT in that sense.
  
  yup. it wasn't until the final season that I recognized her as Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over.... damn fine casting, and she's an impressive actress, it takes SKILL to make people hate you like that.
- Good villains make you want to crawl in through the screen and punch them, and boy is Kai Winn a punchable character.
  Ironically, I have never wanted to punch Q, but Sisko punched him and never Winn.
  
  I always got the impression that everything Q did was simply irritating. Winn made decisions that actively risked people's lives because she was looking for career advancement. She was actually a threat.
  Also they kind of knew that Q wouldn't actually allow anyone to get hurt because he probably wasn't allowed to.

People hated Wesley more than they hated Pulaski.
- I like Will Wheaton, but Weasley Crusher still sucks ass.
  
  The funny thing is Whill Wheaton has famously bad luck with dice
- Hmm, it's been a while since something reminded me of alt.wesley.crusher.die.die.die
  
  Usenet?
- I always liked Wesley
  
  It wasn't the actor's fault, he was given absolutely nothing to work with. Every time I've seen him in anything subsequently he's been a likable character and a good actor.
  I really don't know why his character was on the show the writers clearly didn't have anything for him to do.
  
  all us kids did, i think

- At least she called out her husband who cut bonuses
- Right?

Dukat has entered the chat
- He's hated. But in a way that makes you want to see more of him.
  
  That's true. We LOVE to hate him.
  
  A perfect example of the magnificent bastard trope.
- I love Ducat!

Maybe I'm alone on this, but I found a lot of the story lines with Neelix from Voyager to be hard to watch.
- If they'd only stopped making him so damned childish.
  Ever seen Avenue5? Spike was what Neelix shoulda been and it's hilarious.
  
  Actually, I wish they'd made his girlfriend a little less, ah, childish.
  
  I have never seen Avenue 5, but as an old Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan I suddenly saw a foul-mouthed English bad boy Neelix in my head and it was hilarious 😂
  
  Spike is awesome. I need them to make a lot more Avenue 5. I'm holding out hope that it'll get the Red Dwarf treatment.
- I found most of Voyager to be too cringy to watch.
  It was just such a weird vibe, like they targeted it for kids who liked trek, and ultra-horny neckbeards at the exact same time.
  
  The hormones didn’t come in until seven of nine in the way late seasons. And she’s no different than Troi, except more useful on the ship.
  Are you forgetting the leotard stretching scene…? Or almost anything Troi wore in the early seasons?

Arising from the ashes, Rey Skywalker joins the fray.
Seriously tho I have seen way more mainstream hate for Rey.
Not that Star Wars is scifi as much as space opera. Nor does it technically count as a TV series as much as a film series.
- flipping through my big list of Star Wars characters to dislike
  There are so many people ahead of her on the list.
  Prequels C3PO, all the cringe and none of the comedy
  Rose Tico, the plot hook that can't act
  Watto, the flying anti-semitism
  Snoke, what are you even doing here? The practice sphere Luke spared with in A New Hope advanced the plot more than you did.
  Porkins, the pilot who couldn't hold it together
  Maz Kanata, a bargain basement Yoda and absolutely abhorrent waste of Lupita Nyong'o's talents
  Jar Jar Binks
  Everyone who made the Star Wars Christmas Special possible
  I get being a bit annoyed that they gender-swapped Luke Skywalker got to just kinda mime her way through the first three movies. But if the worst thing Disney did was file the serial numbers of the George Lucas originals and ad a splash of color to the cast, I can almost forgive them for it.
  Even just within the third trilogy... Daisy Ridley was fucking trying to give that ham of a script some spice. And she managed to leave more on the table than Hayden Christensen did with the Anakin role. Hell, she ran circles around the desiccated corpse of Harrison Ford, an honorable mention for some of the worst performance in the series.
  She's not even in the top five worst characters in the sixth best Star Wars series. Cut her some slack.
  
  Just to be clear, I was more commenting on how much hate I saw for her, because I'm pretty much on the same page as you in terms of how I feel about it. It's pretty silly to be mad about.
  
  New copypasta just dropped.
  
  You leave Porkins alone. That man was a hero.
  (I fully agree with everything else though.)
  
  This is two months old but man you’re on point.
- I think she's the banner target for frustration with the Disney sequels. Almost like Jar Jar for people who didn't like the prequels, although now that it's been 20 years people don't seem to hate Jar Jar as much.
  
  Yeah. It's worst for the most recent movie, because we're always afraid the latest bad movie is the last one we will get.
  For example, I probably don't need to hate Pacific Rim 2, so much, and I might stop if we get some better sequels.
  
  It doesn't help that they basically refused to flesh out her character like there was some sort of overarching secret that was going to make it totally worth it. They kind of screwed up the algorithm, like in lost you can have mystery building mystery but you need to give away decent hints on the way through and through no fault of her own her character was just kind of bland.

To this day I am still sad Kira wasn't the one to do her in at the end.
- Oh that would have been so nice, the last episode was very much "quick, we need to tie these threads!"
  Kira going to save him from a trap through her faith somehow would have been so much cooler.

Yes but she was meant to be hated the other characters were just annoying characters but she was actually meant to be a bad guy.
I also love the idea that Getty images somehow has a copyright on the picture. How can they possibly have copyright they didn't take the picture it's a screenshot from a TV series.
- Ha ha I didn’t even notice that!

- Bester was so damn good. Babylon 5 made me realise that Trek kind of squandered his acting talent a bit by making him a goofy Russian comic relief character.
- The worst part about Bester is that sometimes...he was right.

Shut up, Wesley
- Wesley is the #1 spot and also deserves it
  
  and Wil Wheaton agrees

Don't get me started with this guy and his fake British accent
- I think you mean his fake whistle-playing hands.

I love the way the two principle evils of DS9 are both motivated by a deep conviction that they have been treated unfairly.

It's clearly Neelix.
- Yeah, early Neelix is the reigning champ. He may be slightly less so if he had just kept his original outfit from ep 1 instead of his technicolor seizure suit.
- They made Tuvix in an explicit attempt to show that comparatively Neelix isn't such a monstrosity.
  \ They only partially succeeded.
  God save Janeway the caffeinated for saving the day!

Why is Charly Burke hated? Because she replaced Alara?
- Replacing Alara didn’t help, and her PTSD aspect was really the most compelling per of her character. What really turned me off about her was how she could do everything. Need someone who can play 5 dimensional squidgyball? She’s already got her racket. The character was forced with poor writing to complete an arc too quickly. I like what the writers and show runners were trying and all, but the short seasons and long episode format weren’t great for telling that story.
- Charly is hated because she looks like a Fox Newz Gurl on the bridge and it’s just too convenient. Her acting is fine but there was no discernible angle there - why? I only found out she was Seth MacFarlane’s girlfriend after the season was over. Then I was like “Oohhhhhhhh. So that’s what that was about”
  Yeah.
- Burke was a horrible racist and bigot who went against the entire point of the academy. If I can see her as an awful bigot, in her futuristic society she must have been the equivalent of a klan member. She was a horrible person through her entire existence and we're supposed to like her cause she redeemed herself in the last 10 seconds? Nah she sucks. Also she wasn't really a proper character, just a racist Alara clone
  
  In all fairness alot of it stemmed from the fact she watched her partner die after they were betrayed by a supposedly ally - trust from that wouldn't come back quickly.
  Would have liked to see the series carry on a bit more though
  
  Frustratingly, her entire kaylon aggro arc would have worked spectacularly with Gordon. They dropped a couple of aborted hints to this end.
- Because she had untreated PTSD and hated the robots who killed her best friend/lover/whatever.
  And then she was rude to a robot belonging to the same group as the ones who killed her best friend/lover/etc.
  She's pretty well written imo, of a traumatized character.
  
  They were roommates
  
  The question is whether the dislike of the character was because it was poorly written or poorly acted.
  In this case I feel like Charlie was a well-written character who had a good arc (despite a touch of Mary Sue-itis) but Anne Winters' delivery was absolutely flat.
  
  Yeah, she was a bit rough at first, but I didn't have a problem with her, especially given her arc.
  
  She should have taken medical leave if she was that fucked
- Me too!
  But I understand why the writers had a hard time justifying Kira killing Keiko in cold blood.

Getting Nurse Ratched to play Kai Winn was genius casting.
- Louise could really make you hate her.

One was clearly meant to be hated.
- Concurring, and it seems a popular opinion here.
  There is a world of difference between a character you hate seeing, and a character that you love to hate.

She's Kai Box 'o Wine for sure.

or… the entire discovery crew.

Clearly whoever made this hasn't watched star trek discovery yet.
- Tilly?
  
  All of them

Who's the first?
No, not who's on first. I know Who is. I'm asking who the first image is of 😅
- Ensign Charly Burke from the show The Orville.

HOLD MY ~~BEER~~ KANAR

Charlie.
The other two were intentionally contentious and had good actresses. Charlie was nothing more than a poorly written strawman

Only two episodes in, but a hot candidate:

Dexter Remmick
- I think you need to be around for more than a two-parter.
  
  I'm glad he wasn't been around for more. 🙂

Eh, the doctor character was the worst one to me. The religious woman was a character you were intended to dislike, but the doctor character I believe was intended to just be a curmudgeon who is generally good, except she wound up being extremely off putting instead.
- She was supposed to be like Dr.McCoy from TOS. They were going for a Spock/McCoy type relationship between her and Data. Data was a far more autistic coded character than Spock plus there was a different dynamic because Spock was rejecting his human half and Data was striving to be more human so it mostly just came off as her being super abusive to a fan favorite character.

I've said for years that we need one more episode of Celebrity Death match. Kai Winn vs Delores Umbridge.
- I think Umbridge wins for me. Torturing kids feels worse than Kai Winn’s power grabbing machinations.
- Epic rap battles?
  
  Nah, celebrity deathmatch was a claymation show on MTV. The one I remember the most was Lucy Liu vs Lisa Ling. No one knows who won

I recognize the bottom two, but not the top one. Those uniforms look like The Orville but I don't recognize that character at all. But I also never watched S3 and it's been since they aired (5 years?) that I watched the first two seasons of that show.
Edit: Looks like I missed the comment saying who the top character is, which is from S3 of The Orville, so I guess I am out of the loop on this one.
- It's S3, she's the new char.
  She's not nearly that bad, people are just sensitive.

I hate Janeway, and the main reason is because whether or not she has any respect for the Prime Directive depends solely on "Will obeying this get my crew back home?"
If no, then yes If yes, then no
- So you're saying, her prime directive was getting her crew home safely?
  
  I love Janeway to death, it's just that she was put into the unenviable position of making tough choices for the needs of the many... or the brew.
  
  No, her prime directive was keeping her crew stranded and actively finding any pretentious moral excuse to pretend to justify it
  If the show was realistic, she would have died very early on during a mutiny.... and Chakotay wouldn't be one of the most shocking racist characters I've seen in an 90's/2000's era TV show

Hot take: Pulaski > Crusher
- Sshhhh! Here, take this and hide, quickly!

Y'all forgot Jelico.
- Jelico was cool. After him Deanna has worn proper uniform. And it looked good on her.
- The greatest captain in Starfleet history? I never forget Jellico.
- Yeah Jellico was hated at first, but in retrospect, he was goddamn right about a lot of things
- Honestly, Riker was kind of a little bitch with Jelico. Jelico may have been a little kurt, but he was mostly right.

Wait... holier-than-thou Kai Winn drinks beer!? TIL... and might need to rethink some life choices as a result. :-P

186 comments