Posting the shopping cart theory because people had questions in a separate thread
Posting the shopping cart theory because people had questions in a separate thread
444 comments
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If you scatter carts in random places the supermarket has to employ someone to collect them. So you are a job creatorTM. This is why I never return my cart, and also why I jump on cartons of milk in the dairy aisle and take a dump in the broccoli.
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People who actually think this are using it as an excuse for their bad manners.
The person employed by the supermarket to gather carts is not employed to return your cart to the cart return near your vehicle. They are employed to gather the carts from the cart return near your vehicle and bring them back to the store building's cart return.
By doing this, you do not create more jobs (as the cart return employee position already exists whether you return your cart or not), you create more work for an already probably underpaid employee and you also increase everyone's autoinsurance because when the wind blows the carts damage other people's vehicles.
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It's the same person that makes a mess and thinks "it's the janitor's job".
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I definitely have the unpopular opinion of disagreeing. As much as I'd like to employ manners with my grocery store, if there's no corral within a 30 second walk from me, I don't put the cart back. Most of my purchases are under 8 items and I usually don't use a cart so I just carry everything by hand in the store and out.
My grocery store doesn't care about manners on their end. It treats me like an economic unit and even makes self checkout the most reasonable option. They'd have me clean the floors as part of the checkout if they could. From a utilitarian perspective, it makes more sense for one person to gather all the carts in a batch rather than each individual going back for their individual cart.
The insurance rates thing is a legitimate point ( insurance is a racket, though. Fuck those guys too)
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Reminds me of teens saying that janitors are paid to clean so what's the issue with throwing trash on the floor?
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I can't wait for Google's AI to ingest your comment.
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Whenever I return to my vehicle, if I do not have a shopping cart with me, I'll find one someone didn't return and return it for them.
Fear me, I am your antithesis
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Nice thing about working class parents.. when you're a kid and think "but it's someone's job, they get paid to do it," they will teach you that it has nothing to do with making more work for someone.
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The anger over this always amuses me (I put my cart back in the corral btw). But there was a time in the very recent past, where there was no such thing as a cart corral. You simply left your cart in the lot and an employee was paid to fetch them (I also used to do this job as a kid - it was a great job).
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I did this as a kid at a place with cart corrals. Because, y'know, someone still needs to move them from the corrals to the front.
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I actually use this rationale for why I don’t use the self-checkout lanes. Why should I do the work for the grocery store that they should be paying somebody else to do?
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My local supermarket added 8 self checkout machines, and removed almost all the cashier lanes.
For a year, they pushed everyone towards the self checkout. Every... Body. Old people were clogging up the Customer Service section because they want a human. The machines constantly failed to scan, and people would just shrug and pretend like it did.
The deviants started to realize it's super easy to steal, as they can just pay for 1/10 of their groceries and "forget" to scan a lot of things. They started to lock up a lot of merchandise, and you need a human to unlock it.
So now they have hired security guards to then scan receipts, as well as follow people in the parking lots.
The whole supermarket is kind of a shit show. I counted 5 security guards to 2 workers when I was last there. I also do my shopping elsewhere.
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Because it's faster?
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So based.
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I immediately thought of the scene in The 5th Element. Lol
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You return your cart because it's the right thing to do
I return my cart because it gives me a sense of superiority
We are not the same
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No one will punish you for not returning the cart
My opinion on this is reason number 8735 why I will never, and should never, be in charge of a country.
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I too have thousands of reasons why I shouldn't be in charge of a country, however I do have one good pitch.
My appointment to dictatorship would be guided solely by autism. I guarantee my powers will only be focused upon my two fixations that deal with the general public, trains and healthcare.
If made supreme leader I will not only make the trains run on time, there will be more trains, more hospitals, we would even have trains that can take you to your job at the hospital. I would shape the perfect world for me, and vicariously a more efficient and safer world for you.
Demand Me for dictator 2024
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I'd vote for you.
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I often think about how much better the world/ my local area would be if I was allowed to taser people at will for things like that. 😀
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Don’t be a lazybones folks!
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🚨🚨🚨Woo, woo, woo! Skit-do-skiddly-deet!🚨🚨🚨
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That’s not where the carts go
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I hate this guy. Call people out, sure, but keep your stupid magnets off my car.
The stores don't give a shit. The customers don't give a shit. The only one that gives a shit is this guy and his followers. Also, he's a fucking creep. Watch his video where he went to Australia and followed a pair of women to their house to shame them for walking their cart to the house.
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He's fucking hilarious and you're a suspected lazybones.
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It's telling that you side with (what is almost always) the giant billions-dollar corporation and don't even mention the worker who is probably already being exploited. That's who cares. That's who gets extra work, especially out in the cold/rain/wind/snow/hail, with no extra pay.
In line with the original post you're right: no one will fight for them and no one will fine or arrest you, but don't pretend people's selfish laziness impacts no one...
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Put your trolley away and he won't magnet your car
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Or have a disability!
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If a disabled person used a cart all through the store, and to their car, their disability should therefore not impede their ability to return the cart.
If someone is using the mobility scooter, that's a different story.
Edit for clarity, if it does impede the ability, it does. That's the end of the story, and the meme.
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The disability here is almost always selfishness or lack of consideration for their fellow man.
Nobody is judging based on carts left by handicapped spaces.
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Let's not make a twitter out of lemmy, that's not at all what they meant.
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There should be a requirement for cart return spots next to the handicap parking. In places where there is a return 10 feet from the spots I still see a ton of carts in the parking spots.
I get that it can be hard, but it seems way too frequent that they could do the whole store but just couldn't make that last 10 feet. Like sure, occasionally that is inderstandable.
So I will judge them while also grabbing the cart and either using it or putting it away because that is the right thing to do.
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My favorite part about when this gets posted is that there is always someone trying to justify not putting the shopping cart back.
Edit: didn't even have to scroll half a screen length lmao.
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Okay, at the risk of down votes, I'll take the bait.
My first job was more than 3 years of collecting carts. In that time it's easy to see patterns like where carts often end up. Some are left out in the open, near a slope where the slightest breeze will animate it. Others pushed up on the sidewalk to the side of the store where there's not much traffic and they just pile up. And others still will be left along a common walking path, not blocking the path, secure but not stuck.
Those last ones often take care of themselves because so many people walk along that path, it's trivial to grab it on your way in, and it's faster than pulling a cart backwards out of the entryway where they're stored.
Years later, I'm picking up something for my nephew's birthday party. I park the car. There's a cart in the position mentioned above: on my way, not blocking anyone, secure but easy to grab. So I grab it, walk inside, do my shopping, come out, unload it. Nearest return is back inside the store, or I can put it back where I found it securely, along the way, but out of the way. I choose the latter. Before I even get in my car someone has grabbed the cart on their way in.
I fail to see the problem. However, the person who grabbed the cart was talking loudly to her grandchild so I could hear, "his legs must be broken since he can't put the cart back" 😤
TL;DR In a post about returning your carts, a job which I had for over 3 years, the most obnoxious person I encountered was not someone who put their cart in the wrong place, but a passive-aggressive, self-righteous, loudmouth who was so narrow minded they couldn't see there are spots carts can be left that save both parties time and create no additional work, even as she benefitted.
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While the moment mentioned doesn't present any immediate problems, it opens up the "well since he put the cart wherever he wanted I can do the same" mindset, we humans learn by example, not all people will stop and acknowledge where and why they are leaving the cart there, they will just do by convenience, we are built this way.
Putting the cart in the correct place is a social agreement, that forgo the convenience of a few to give it to the most.
Imagime if literally all carts were everywhere on the parking lot (an extreme), it would be utter chaos and make massive inconveniences (like people having to remove it from a parking spot to park their car).
The silver lining is, not all conveniences work in all scales.
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I was also a cart pusher for 3 or 4 years. It wasn't my only task most of the time I was actually in the store bagging groceries. I loved cart pickup. It meant I could walk around the store parking lot, grab some fresh air and listen to some music. It was a cool little escape from the monotonous in store work and no one was really keeping an eye on me out there so I could take a little extra time.
I'm not weighing in on whether people should leave their carts out just adding some perspective that gathering them up wasn't like this huge added labor, quite the opposite. If I wasn't gathering carts I would've just been assigned to something much less enjoyable.
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Honestly for me it's about was the lot designed by an idiot. Large stores like Walmart and home depot are the worst offenders. If I need to park in the far out of reaches of the lot there's never any fucking cart returns there.
All of them are grouped up right near the fucking front of the store where it's least needed, and then there's nothing at the outer edges. I make sure my cart is somewhere it will not move even in strong wind, but the designers of the parking lot can go fuck themselves for not putting a cart return stall at the outer edges where it makes sense in those massive lots.
Other stores like WinCo and costco seem to have this figured out. Cart returns at regular intervals across the entire parking lot. So no excuse not to return there
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Or using disabled people as a shield for their (able bodied) poor behavior
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For me it was literally the top comment
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The second one is especially triggering since the parking lot seems otherwise empty. Like they just did it as a weird flex or something.
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Now we know where all the carts should go
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How did they go out of the car?
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Trunk maybe?
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Flawed. Here, you must insert a coin (or if you have it, a token with the shape of the coin) that will only be returned after you put the cart in the correct place.
So you actually lose something if you don't return the cart.
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That doesn't mean the concept is flawed; it just means those businesses were smart enough to put in countermeasures against bad people.
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That means there were enough bad people that businesses wanted to purchase a lock token system at the expense of convenience of customers and overhead costs of their businesses
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Mhm. That said, only a few places around where I live have "coin operated" carts. I guess the places that do have them got tired of the selfish, inconsiderate sobs who didn't return the carts.
To me it feels so utterly strange to just dump a cart in the middle of a parking lot and, seemingly, think nothing of it.
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In the US Aldi requires a quarter. Depending on the area, there are absolutely people who will give up their 25 cents to not walk their lazy ass to return the cart.
Florida is full of inconsiderate selfish assholes.
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I have seen supermarkets with even stricter systems. I have seen carts with automated brakes/clamps. If you try to leave the supermarket with the cart, the wheels block. So you are forced to put your groceries in bags and carry the bags to the car.
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My local has these but they only stop you from leaving through the entrance. If you leave through the checkout area you can take the trolly out
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The supermarket? Damn. I've seen that around the parking lot so that they can't be taken off the property, but outside of the building itself? Wow.
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Where I shop there is the token system but you just have to ask the security agent to get a free token. So there is no need to return your cart because you can get a free token each time you got to the store.
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That’s common in England, but a lot of larger shops don’t bother with that system.
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It's the opposite here in Sweden, in some larger supermarkets you did need a coin but in no smaller shops
Anyways that's all gone now since no one carries coins anymore
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We don't do that here, that's mall-level bullshit.
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Yeah, I'd just not shop there. I never have change with me, and I'm not bringing change just because the store requires it. It might not be the first trip or the third, but over time, I'd shop there less and less because convenience matters.
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As a combination cart pusher and cleaner for a supermarket, absolutely fuck anyone that doesn't return their cart or worse, throws it into a gardenbed
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I used to see threads like this on reddit where people would defend the act by claiming it keeps people employed. Anyone who has worked in retail knows otherwise, but it doesn't stop these neanderthals from existing and making their bullshit toxic arguments.
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100%
And knowing how corporate works in these sorts of places, they ain't gonna hire/roster more people to deal with the extra work, just push the existing staff even harder so they don't have to pay out extra hours.
The worst shit is when I see someone dumping a cart, they see me, smile and nod at me and then walk off like they haven't just been caught being shitty.
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Imagine if that's how the world worked. Help your toilet cleaners by shitting on the floor and smearing it up the walls. Litter pickers looking like they need the overtime? Just tip the bins over.
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At least when they do, you can pretend you're Bubbles for a little bit?
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I got white tees! White tees!
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I've always told my family I like to build up "cart karma." You get karma by bringing a cart in with you from the parking lot, or returning the one you use after. You lose karma by leaving your cart in the parking lot. Even if I'm going in for a single item, I'll take a cart in from the parking lot with me and leave it in the rack by the store.
I don't really care about cart karma, it's just a way of saying that it seems like the nice thing to do.
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st peter at the pearly gates: "yup, looks like you're up 14 carts overall. welcome to heaven."
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All sins and virtues get converted to cart return equivalent.
"14 carts positive, plus those 4 times you helped old ladies cross the street adds 12 more carts, minus 8 carts for the time you tried to help one but ended up punching her instead (it would have been 10 but it's reduced by 2 because Dionysus was watching that one and said even he would have had trouble holding his temper and he's a pretty chill dude). You're up 18 carts overall, congrats!"
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I do this by necessity because the medium-sized carts are most popular and they're usually only available in the parking lot anyway.
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No one will punish you for not returning the shopping cart, no one will fine you or kill you for not returning the shopping cart, you gain nothing by returning the shopping cart.
Cart Narcs. Those guys are fucking crazy. They were doing their thing in Texas. I've read stories of idiots pulling out guns for less.
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Imagine living in a country where some people have egos so fragile that they threaten to kill you because you told them they are lazy.
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He's had guns pulled on him
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That goes for everything you can return but don't have to. You can throw your trash away after the movie, you don't have to leave it in the theatre.
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Not all return situations are equal either. There is a difficulty factor. I've returned carts every time in my life except once. I was about 50 car rows deep in a massive crowded lot and I realized there were no cart corrals at all. At the back of the massive lot and much, much closer to me was a bunch of carts. I pushed a few together and added mine. The difference in this scenario was not me.
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See this is an exception that proves the rule. The fact that there was no way for you to return the cart to a cart corral means that it was a noticeable and memorable event, a deviation from what should normally be the correct way of doing things. If you had been a person who'd never returned carts, this would have just been a day ending with the letter "y."
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Germany are good at this. Not great, mind you, but good.
I wonder what Japanese movie theatre's are like
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I take other people's trolleys back on my way because I'm not a piece of shit.
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I'm always torn with things like that. While i have quite literally never seen a random cart around because people put them back over here like 99.9% of the time. But i live in a small town with only 800 people, it's nice, quiet and clean. But there is (presumably) one guy who throws out his McDonald's trash out of the car window every other day. It's like the most beautiful scenic route up to the village and just like the grosses food in the grossest brown bag by an absolute douche bag laying around. I often think i should just take it home and throw it away. But then he drives by the next morning it's gone and you become the private garbage collector to the biggest scumbag in town.
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Lmao. "I'm a nice emphatic person, because I'm not scum like others."
Do it for you man, don't do things to throw shade on others
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They already do every time they put back the cart, this is just one of the few places where it is okay to brag about it.
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I would add scooping dog shit is another test. There are people out there who will bag the shit and then leave the bag on the ground for the poop to steam in for a few days before they put another bag right next to it to keep it company.
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Why do people do that? I mean, if they intend to abandon the dog poop, why would they bag it first?
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Not defending this, but some people intend to pick up the bag on their return, presumably as they are headed away from a trashcan and will return to one on the way back. They don't want to carry it the whole time.
They should just carry it the whole time, or return to the start then and there to drop it
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Sometimes people walking dogs plan on walking past the same spot on the return trip, so they leave the bag. Sometimes they forget to pick it back up, or forget that they dropped it there and take a different route home. Sometimes bag number two is the next day, or some other person's bag. Generally, if someone's going to pull a shit and split, they're not bagging.
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Don't waste your time trying to analyze the decision making of an animal.
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Environmentally, the bag actually prevents biodegradation. If you don't pick up your dog poo in the wilderness and not where people step, some shit-eating insect (like roley-poley or cockroach or a worm) will eat it all up within a week.
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Which is worse, the ones that leave a bag (perhaps unintentionally) or the ones that just don't bother with the responsibility at all? When I had a dog I not only would clean up behind him, I would leave the bag untied until the end to capture what I could of the inevitable left piles I would run across. I'm sure cart return, dog poop, fast food containers, and the old cigarette butts are all under some human psychology grouping of ego superiority.
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I think leaving the bag is worse. When it is just poop, maybe the dog ran out of sight or was loose or the walker ran out of bags or whatever. When it is bagged, a human made a decision to scoop it and then leave it on purpose.
Both are bad but bagged shows intention.
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I'll do you one further. It is morally correct to take a cart from the parking lot to use in the store rather than grab one from inside the store.
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BUT! What if the parking lot is four miles long and there are no cart returns anywhere and you're tired because you've been working 20 hour days with no time off and it's 140 degrees outside and the grocery store is exploiting their workers and you haven't eaten in days and you have a disability and the carts are coin operated and this is literally the only way to solve the unemployment crisis? WHAT THEN??
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You hold onto both handles, pivot in the direction of cart return four miles away, and then you run at full blast for 6 seconds, releasing at your apex speed and finally stand there with your hand shielding you from the setting sun as that little cart trundles off towards freedom, inevitably to be picked up by another good samaritan two miles away who will repeat the process, as is custom. If fireworks should bloom and the sunset is a nice shade of red white and blue, then a tear may drip slowly down your cheek as you remember that you're in the greatest country in the world and that you wouldn't have it any other way.
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there are no cart returns anywhere
This is on the grocery store.
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I also have an emergency that I need to get to NOW!
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Murica, fucked up because of shopping carts. In germany you have to put money in the cart, and get it back while bringing the cart back to where it is from. Problem solved.
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I'm glad we aren't incentivized. It allows for this ultimate litmus to take place. I will literally go shopping with dates to figure this out.
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This is a genius idea
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Murca has invented these little devices that trick the machine so you don't have to put in a quarter.
They'll do anything to avoid being decent lol
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Some US stores use quarters.
It can lead to people freaking out about their quarter though
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To shop is human. To return is divine.
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I've gone out of my way multiple times to put up multiple cats that were blocking parking spaces, including handicap spaces. While the handicap ones make it seem like the person is an extra asshole, I wonder if it's the handicap person that leaves it there and it just moves into the space. There's are very few stores that put a corral by handicap spaces.
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I've gone out of my way multiple times to put up multiple cats
Did they scratch you?
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They were very protective of their carts.
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Is it morally wrong to put cats in carts and push the cart towards the nearest pet store?
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I uh, avoid taking a cart, because I have a big ass reusable shopping bag. I'm not sure where that leaves me.
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Wait, so you’re putting your unpaid items in the bag? I know there’s nothing inherently wrong with that but I’d be worried that someone would stop me or say something so I just hold on to mine until I check out.
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They have hand held scanners where I shop, so I do this also.
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Lots of stores prohibit this because they're afraid it might make stealing easier. But not all of them!
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I do the same, and yeah I just put everything in the bag, and I empty it at checkout,I usually don't have that much stuff anyway. Never had an issue with that at the store
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I have been shopping this way ever since the start of covid and only use self check out. It is a lot easier to get around the store. If I need to buy a bunch of heavy stuff or there is a sign asking me not to, I will of course use a small cart or hand basket. I am not going to piss off the Trader Joe gods when I visit it occasionally, who have a sign about it.
I have never been stopped, asked not to, or have been given any looks from the staff for doing it at my main grocery store.
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Don't know about you people, but here in Hungary (Eastern-Europe) I haven't ever seen a cart not returned at least as far as I remember.
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i once visited Lewiston, Maine and none of the carts had been returned to the proper spot. more than a dozen carts were just scattered around the parking lot. as soon as i found somewhere to park, i got out and collected every cart in the lot. the boy i was dating at the time looked at me with concern in his eyes
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A lot of countries use coin operated cart releases, which give you a coin back on return. This is very uncommon in the US. Generally there are just metal "corrals" with guardrails you return a cart to in the parking lot.
The only store that I know of that uses coin returns is Aldi, but that's still regional in the US.
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Now I'll upset some people here, I'm sure but...
Here in the UK, you can see how decent an area is using this method.
Go to the nearest Tesco Extra. If they have the coin traps on the trolleys, probably a dodgy area. If they don't, not so dodgy area.
In both cases, you're going to find the trolleys are generally not left lying around. Read into it what you will.
I only use Tesco extra as an example because from my experience other supermarkets either have the coin traps, or don't. It seems only Tesco (correct me if I'm wrong) vary the behaviour by area.
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And a German company no less.
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Interesting idea... Is human morality (in situations where no punishment exists) a result of the societies we live in and our societal expectations, our upbringing, or is there some inherent morality (guilt from doing something bad, or satisfaction from doing the right thing) within most people?
Whilst I do live somewhere that has trolleys with coins, sometimes you get one that is damaged and doesn't require a coin. Yet I still return those ones, because why wouldn't I? It only takes a minute.
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Nurture or nature?
Yes.
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I was concerned this was going to be a comment about what I put in my shopping cart.
But I can tell I'm an individual of extreme self-discipline because after I filled my shopping cart with chocolate and vodka I return it to the carousel.
Everyone praised me.
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Around here there are definitely consequences in the form of pesky looks and headshakes. Well at least coming from me.
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I've even helped by putting my nose in the air and saying, "that's ok, I'll put it away for you"
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But is creating those jobs actually something we want? How much does someone get paid for collecting carts? How much does that increase prices for basic necessities? Do we have a labor surplus such that any job is a good job?
The answer to all of those is "no." I don't know about you, but I'd much rather keep my office job than go collect carts, so I put my cart away so the person would would have that job can get a better job.
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So my personal take on shopping cart theory is that it assumes putting away shopping carts is not a fun job.
I have worked at whole foods for 2 years, and the thing I hated the most was how it felt like Bezos's watchful eye was always on you. The supervisors could be super persnickety about your breaks. Compared to my new life as a self employed musician, it was like prison, but that's retail for ya.
I personally loved cart duty. It was a time when I could go outside, get some fresh air, and not be under the surveillance of that god awful company*.
So now if it is a nice day out, I will go out of my way to put the cart in left field. I call it a chaotic good move.
That said the "it keeps jobs" is BS. If cart duty wasn't a thing, the person would still be filling baskets and cleaning windows.
*Note: the Halstead location in Chicago was actually really great. Maybe it was the Stockholm syndrome of working retail during pandemic, maybe it was Midwestern kindness, but that team actually seemed to care about each other's wellbeing and we'd even hang out. I lean towards Midwestern kindness though, I moved here from Seattle and while I miss the mountains, I CERTAINLY do not miss the social scene. Despite what the news tries to tell you, Chicago takes care of its own. Even when I was a stranger in a strange land, and then homeless during polar vortex, the people took me in. Every. Night.
Not sure if I'd visit, but I'd definitely live here.
Sorry for the Chicago tangent, I'm a few handshakes deep and I get emotional about this fuckin' place.
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This is just "littering is fine because it's someone's job to pick it up" with extra steps.
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You can't think of a job more productive than cleaning up after lazy cunts?
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Show us one example literally anywhere that actually did that. Philosophy is not an excuse for being a lazy jerk.
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Jean-Baptiste Emmanuel Zorg everyone.
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This is why I dig ditches. I create labour because someone has to pay to fill them in.
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We should hire someone to wipe our arses for us too!
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I mean they still gotta put em up after that so...
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What if you take them home to burn leaves in?
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You are a man with a plan. Green flag
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Seems legit
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Plot twist: I don't use a shopping cart. (I always use the textile shopping bag that I bring from home.)
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That's considered a security concern in most grocery stores where I live. There are signs telling you not to place any items in your shopping bags until you've paid for them. You must use a cart or waste several minutes hunting around the entrance or registers trying to find where they hid one of their 10 shopping baskets.
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I like shoplifting laws in the common law system because they're, like all theft laws, based on intent. They need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you intended to take and deprive them of whatever they're accusing you of stealing. If someone conceals something in an elaborate or strange way, you can nail them without them leaving the store. If they put it in their hoodie pocket or shopping bag and have a good excuse for doing so (this is all I had, I wanted to carry more), to "hold" it however, and "forgot" to scan it, you need to actually show that it's a pattern of several times if you want any hope of actually prosecuting them. At least with this policy I guess the stores can ban you even if they can't legally do anything against you. Don't take this comment as encouraging the policy though, you can steal whatever you like from corporations as far as I'm concerned.
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"No one will punish you for not returning the shopping cart, no one will fine you or kill you for not returning the shopping cart..."
Hmmmm, I wonder if this is always true. Maybe somewhere there is someone who does not let such things stand.
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In Germany, shopping carts typically have a deposit system, where you have to insert an Euro into the cart to use it, which you get back when you return it. So that is basically a build in fine for not returning it.
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They've started doing it in some places in America with quarters and it works. Turns out the price of laziness is less than 25¢ haha.
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Some people go as far as to use a tool similar to the one mounted on the front cart to extract their money and still not return the cart they took.
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The wind howls through the empty parking lot as the dim streetlights flicker above interrupted by the faint screech of an unreturned cart, left abandoned in the cold silence, rolling aimlessly across the asphalt. A masked man steps out of the shadows...
"You think it's nothing. A small act of carelessness, a moment of laziness. But that cart, left adrift, has a price. A price in scraped cars, twisted ankles, in the chaos that spreads like rot in the hearts of men. You see, I don't care about your excuses. I don't care if it's raining, if you're in a hurry. Order is what keeps us human. And you... you spit on it with every cart left behind."
Knuckles crack in the darkness
"I’m the reckoning you never see coming. You think no one’s watching when you shove it into the next spot, but I’m always watching. Every cart out of place, every rule ignored, it leads to something darker, something worse. And that’s where I come in—to stop the small sins before they become something more."
The masked man takes a step forward, his voice low and gravelly.
"I am Cart Noir, the last line of defense between order and chaos. You think it's just a cart? It's never just a cart."
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In Germany (and other parts.od Europe as well to be fair) carts need you to put a coin in them to unchain them from their bay, which you get back when you chain them back up - so yeah, kinda, if you don't put it back you loose your euro
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Same in Canada, (I hate that I need a loonie to shop with dignity).
Even so, people still leave their carts around. And really that is even worse.
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Same in the Netherlands, and I pretty much never see stray shopping trolleys anywhere around here. Seems to work really well.
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Yeah check out the Cart Narcs on YouTube. Absolutely hilarious content.
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Cart Narcs
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Animals are far better than people.
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I think it's similar to weights in a gym. Leaving them on the barbell is a jerk move. Returning them to their correct staging location is the ethically correct thing to do. Whenever I see them left on the barbell, I imagine a fantasy where the person has a team of horn players follow them around and play for them to announce their superiority.
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Except for the absolute synchronized event where the person in front of you is done, and their weight is exactly what you planned on doing.
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Yass and when I'm walking into the store I always offer to take a cart for someone walking theirs back, if such a person is within hailing distance.
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Yay, I'm good!
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I'm going to start recording people not putting their carts away. Endless content for my future channel.
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Gadammit.
But also: Sweet.
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Three type of people.
People who return carts, those who don't, and those who record it for marginalized ad revenues
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In the UK you have to put a £1 coin in to unlock it. Whenever you return the trolley back, it gives you the coin back
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Depends on your beliefs. There are people who believe in being judged for every action by an almighty force or being, so it's probably not absolutely perfect. I might be smitten in my next life for it.
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It's interesting to read the comments, as there are people who are like
I sometimes don't return the cart and I attest myself to not be a bad person. Therfore the test is bullshit.
But then they behave like a dick in the comments; showing involuntarily that the test is a good metric.
So I think even a post about this test works like the test on a more meta level.
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Another possibility is that people that don't return the cart may not be having their needs met. A person who is tired after walking across the hot parking lot may not return it out of a desire to maintain a modicum of health. Or, perhaps, they may not think about it because their cognition is temporarily hindered by hunger, exhaustion, or some other carnal need.
On Maslow's hierarchy, I'd say if a person meets all of their physiological and safety needs they are more likely to return the cart than those who do not.
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I think this matches the "no better than an animal" from the OP pretty well
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If they're so tired after walking around the shop and walking back to their car that they can't do that tiny bit more and return the cart to the corral, maybe they should be seeing a doctor to see if they are eligible for disability (sounds like a severe case of lazybonesitis) and use a handicapped spot. Or you know, stop being so fucking lazy and making excuses.
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I return mine because its an opportunity to get more steps in.
After taking it outside boundaries so a wheel locks up.
Look at tge people returning them in the lot, mostly fat and/or wealthy.
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We have now this in Migros and Coop:
Place it in the stack at the checkout where you unload it and go. Kinda breaks that test. And a headache less for the clerks.
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Pretty sure the original post is written in the context of a typical large US supermarket with outdoors parking lot.
There people often buy more groceries then they can carry so they go with the cart to their cars to unload them. After doing that you're supposed to push the cart back to one of cart sheds located in the parking lot, yet many people just leave it where they unloaded it and drive away.
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These things have existed in US stores for literal decades now. At least 25+ years that I can say from personal experience, and probably much longer than that.
People are referring to the bigger carts that they use when they need bigger orders like from a grocery store.
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society made me like this
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slight flaw in this theory, I always return the cart and will often return other carts as well. despite this, I am terrible at self governing to the point of nearly failing out of college. that being said return your carts you bastards
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Typically parking lots are filled with cars, and I need to drive between the parked cars. If a cart is in the way it makes it harder for me to leave, just saying
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Ive been to ~7 grocery stores ~80 times in the past couple weeks. Was driving instacart at night to get some bills paid I was worried about. Not once did I come across carts that were just in the parking spots/street, they always are in the cart holders that take up parking spots. I standardly pull my cart from one of those and wheel it into the store which leaves it at a net 0 move when I put it back.... That said, with the number of people who are hunting for jobs right now that I know, this may be the first time I would say the store hiring someone to return carts is another employed person. Kroger really isn't going to go bankrupt supporting the local populace with 1 extra job. Publix on the other hand has employees actively asking to take my cart before I can close the trunk. Had been pretty impressed by it. One day I went to 4 different Krogers, it is a bit interesting to see the difference in the stores based upon the people/house cost that live in the areas.
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I don't know where you are, but the Krogers by me are all way understaffed.
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Third option. I park out by an abandoned cart take it inside and use it. Then, like my mother taught me I put it back where I found it.
Am I an animal? An absolute savage? If I then returned the cart after finding it abandoned, then using it, does that make me double good?
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Yes you are a savage. Putting it back where you found it is not the correct way to do things. It might have been in the 1970s, I don't know when cart corrals first showed up because people were too lazy to take it back to the front of the store.
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I don't think they put it back where they found it. It's not worded well but I'm pretty sure they put it up (aka "returns") in the property place when they're done with it.
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Lawful evil
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It doesn't make you an animal or a savage, it makes you at best willfully ignorant.
If your mother taught you that 2+2=3 but later in life ample evidence shows you that 2+2=4, do you change you mind or still insist that your mother knew best?
Your mother's mindset regarding the returning of carts is called "lowest common denominator", someone else doing something wrong doesn't make it OK for you to do.
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Still an animal.
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In my country we have dedicated people in the parking who literally follow you, can even push and collect the cart from you.
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Don't know if that's heaven or hell.
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This got me thinking, what is a "true neutral" position.
Finding another cart which isn't returned, and adding yours to it.
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True neutral is carrying everything in your hands and avoiding the issue entirely.
Chaotic neutral is using a hand basket and putting it into an abandoned cart when you're done.
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Lawful good is returning the cart to the in store area (or wherever people generally get their carts from). Or returning more than just your cart to the corals in the lot. Might return a row of carts to the store while they grab theirs from the coral.
Neutral good is gathering some carts from the lot and making sure they aren't taking up parking spots, though not necessarily returning them to the coral or store.
Chaotic good is grabbing one of ones randomly left out there and giving it to others who are going in to the store and grabbing another one for yourself. Cart may or may not be left in the coral after, though it's at least left where it won't be in the way.
Lawful neutral returns their cart and maybe others if they aren't out of the way. Might freak out on someone who doesn't return their cart.
True neutral sometimes returns it, sometimes doesn't, sometimes grabs a loose cart, sometimes grabs one from the store area. Overall doesn't make things better or worse, but individual episodes can do so.
Chaotic neutral picks a random (to us, they might have their reasons) cart in the middle of a row, pulling the other carts out enough to access that cart. May or may not return those other carts to the row. May or may not push their cart towards a coral when they leave. Most likely to be seen pushing a cart while driving their car, either with the cart at the front of the car or holding it through an open window (which might not even be the usual driver's window). I'd call Mr Bean chaotic neutral, so anything he is capable of.
Lawful evil returns the carts to the coral but stacks incompatible carts with each other or might put it in backwards. Follows the rules in a way that makes you wish they hadn't. Might stick a tack in one of the wheels so it won't turn properly.
Neutral evil scatters carts to cause the most inconvenience. Doesn't just block parking spots but might block car paths or entrances and exits to the store. Might overturn their cart. Might ram it into someone's car. Might fight employees that try to gather carts.
Chaotic evil super glues wheels so they won't turn or glues carts to each other and in the coral or to the door. Or might take one of those carts that are tethered such that they seize the brakes from one store and leave it in another store's lot. Or might figure out how to trigger that without the cart leaving (the other evils might also do this one). Or might just burn down the store after returning their cart to the in store area, letting any observers briefly think they had changed. Might turn the parking lot into a crash up derby and refer to pedestrians as bonus points.
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I agree that people should put the carts where they go, but this whole "I'm a better human because I put carts back" thing just reeks of unredeemable people scouring their existence for a single redeeming property.
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This is only true in the US. In Europe if you don't return the cart you can be sure people will give you looks and think about you as an asshole
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People in the US give you a look and think you're an asshole too.
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But America bad.
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hmm no this seems wrong. If the parking lot is a mile long and there are no cart returns it makes me a bad person if I rack the carts in a line with all the others in the boonies? If you are getting abandoned carts its probably because you don't have enough cart returns, not because people are bad
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I’ve seen abandoned carts within 10 feet of the cart return. Numerous times. I’ve seen people leave their cart behind the parked car next to them and drive off. Some people are animals.
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Ok granted I was being too kind for a generalization there. The core of it is that I think that there is still a line that this absolute judgement skirts around precisely because there are so many extreme bad examples. When does the walk back become unreasonable? If costco eliminated all cart returns would you walk your cart to the door or rack it on the curb and become an animal?
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If you're consolidating abandoned carts in the fringes, that makes you just as good, since you are creating a new cart return area that others might also contribute to. But when there are multiple cart returns that are partially used and still carts left on the way in various places in spaces, on the curb, and even right near the entry, those people are at a minimum lazy. My example is a Walmart that never fails this, so perhaps that skews things a bit.
It's the ones left almost at the store that get me...you could have gone a bit farther. Why did you stop?
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Well the discussion started off ok before ending in a rabies infested rant against humanity! Talk about going off the rails!
Anyhow, many people return the trolley so they don't look bad/feel guilty. That doesn't necessarily make them 'good' or 'civilised' and therefore fit into the 'being forced' category through peer pressure. Does that make them 'animals' and 'savages' too?
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Here's the thing - most of the people who don't return their shopping carts don't even know that this is a test. If they did, their behavior would change. If you know about the test, it fundamentally voids the test. And that is what makes it valid. If there is no pressure, what do they do?
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But the 'test' is peer pressure, no? Which exists permanently in real life so there will always be a portion of people only returning the cart because of that.
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Goodharts law in action
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Maybe not 'good' per say but it actually does make them civilized. Regardless of motivation, they are being polite/courteous, which is the definition of being civilized
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I'd argue that doing something because of peer pressure is different to being taught or learning to be considerate, so what looks like considerate behaviour from the outside, may just be e.g. avoidance of guilt/judgement. It doesn't necessarily equate to being civilized.
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Maybe, but in addition it's like a social fabric/contract. I don't want carts everywhere dinging my car up or taking up spaces and because no one else wants that either we all (most of us) tacitly accept to return carts to avoid this problem.
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Ah but is that not peer pressure? You and others don't want your cars damaged etc and therefore critisise people who leave carts around selfishly. This then creates a scenario where people may feel guilty or wish to avoid said critisism and put the cart away as a result.
I agree that social contracts exist, but only between those who accept them and are willing to make an effort for everyone and anyone. Those that do not return the cart are in effect rejecting that contract.
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many people return the trolley so they don't look bad/feel guilty.
I mean, isn't that the reason a lot of people do stuff they don't necessarily want to do (at least in the moment), but do it because it's better for everyone in the long run?
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No, I don't believe so. Some might, but I think many do it purely for the selfish reason of avoiding guilt etc. Just because you and I and many others see it as being good for everyone, I don't beleive that most people think the same! They may be able to describe the act of doing something for the benefit of all, just as we are discussing, and understand it, but otherwise only want whatever they want regardless of the impact on others. Humans are selfish, all of us are, it's an evolutionary tool for survival used by all life and helps ensure the survival of the species. Some of us regularly think beyond that though, but I reckon you'd be surprised how few do with any regulatory, it can become quite tiring to constantly assess situations afresh, so instinct kicks in and so people just do what they want in that moment that takes the least effort.
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If your litmus test involves doing free labor for a corporation you're already fucked
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If you piss on the toilet seat, do you clean it up (free labour as you call it) or hire a cleaner?
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Imagine how dense you have to be to think this way.
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Costco is the only place I don't always return carts, since around here the cart returns can get very far away, but curbs you can tuck them away on are everywhere. That, and they have staff just for gathering carts constantly.
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Curbing carts bends the wheels. If you've even been annoyed by a cart with a bad wheel, congratulations you played yourself.
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Likewise if you're a smoker - you should go directly to jail.
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smokers are also victims of the addiction, so I don't think it tracks with the trolley example
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Maybe its a neurospicy take, but I guess the words I didn't say are
if you're making people inhale smoke that was just in your own lungs - you're being a cunt
If you're inflicting your addiction on others - you're being a cunt
Maybe you can't choose to stop (you can) - but you can modify your actions.
I don't consider smokers victims, just people that made shitty choices and then wake up and keep doing nothing but staying shitty.
Stop being shit. Quit.
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Nope, I don't buy it.
- An estimated one out of every 500 Americans is homeless
- Unarmed noncombatant civilian women and children are being bombed, shot, and starved to death.
- There has been a nearly 70% reduction in wild vertebrates worldwide since 1970
- The leading cause of death among children and teens in america is firearms
Privileged westerners could do something about these things, but they are sipping their pumpkin spice lattes and congratulating each other for putting their shopping carts back because, you know, it's the ultimate test of moral righteousness. Ugh.
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You're not looking at this correctly. No one congratulates themselves for returning the cart.
The point here is that the simple act of returning the shopping cart is the baseline of ethical behavior. This is just illustrating that society's individualism is so strong that this simple act of spending 10 seconds to keep the place in order is often ignored.
Of course people that return the shopping cart can be ignorant assholes as well. But the point is that this extremely basic act is severely lacking in society. Therefore we can't expect, as you said, more advanced ethical values. Such as using one's time and energy to promote changes to other foreign countries
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I mostly posted my rant just to be contrary, but I still feel like there is something erroneous to this argument, even tho you do make it seem clear and sensible.
I offer Japan as an example: the whole country is very neat, tidy and orderly. People know that if you see garbage, or something out of place, you put it where it belongs. People take the personal responsibility to clean up after themselves very seriously, and willingly clean up after eachother. As it was explained to me, 'If you're the first person to see it, then you are the person to take care of it."
So you would expect this baseline indication of ethical behavior to translate into other domains. Surprisingly, people who as a group score very well on this test of self-regulation and ethical behavior seem to have a systemic problem with violence, sexual abuse and sexual harassment against women. https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2017/3/8/sexual-assault-in-japan-every-girl-was-a-victim
It could be that individuals not putting things away is a sign of a deeper societal issue, but group/individual fastidiousness doesn't seem to generalize to broader ethical adherence.
Maybe there is a mistake somewhere in my thinking.
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So why haven't you stopped the bombing?
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I'm sure they'll get around to it right after they finish the eating this next vertebrate.
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