beehaw might be leaving the fediverse
beehaw might be leaving the fediverse
There is a lot of discussion happening in the background of our project here. We could not anticipate all of the challenges that we were going to face a few years ago. One of the reasons for this was because we had no idea what our choice of a platform would bring. Specifically, we chose Lemmy as th...
I'm sure people here can empathize with having all the tech wizards get burnt out and leave, and all the various teething problems but this is a bit much... lemmy has its issues but plenty of sites larger and smaller than beehaw are getting on just fine. Perhaps the lib sysadmins are just going back to brunch?
Therefore, we are left with some options that may feel uncomfortable to us. For example, we may want to consider leaving the Fediverse for another software platform that does NOT include ActivityPub. To explain, Fediverse/ActivityPub are very positive concepts on the foundational level. However, the Beehaw project is struggling to include this because most of our moderation/content/ethos is being jeopardized from OTHER federated instances (i.e. it, mostly, is NOT coming from within our own Beehaw registered user base).
Sounds like they don't like federation and just want to isolate their own instance. Why couldn't they just defederate instead of going through the process of migrating to another platform? Is it really that difficult to do?
EDIT: Thinking about this a little more, it seems like the admins (or admin?) have a very specific idea of the kind of community they want, and are getting frustrated when everything isn't perfect to their vision, whether that's lemmy code or other instances they are federated with. Then they complain and contribute nothing towards making the fediverse better. I guess what I'm saying is that they really do seem to want a walled garden that's perfect to some idealized community that only exists in their heads, and I don't think communities really work like that.
They can just turn off all federation yeah. It's pretty easy.
Beehaw admins loooove lying.
And what is that vision? Civility.
😊
yeah that doesn't make any sense.
Permanently Deleted
Not being federated can certainly work (we did fine here for 3 years without it), but I was speaking more about this desire to create the “perfect” community isolated from everything else.
EDIT: Thinking about this a little more, it seems like the admins (or admin?) have a very specific idea of the kind of community they want, and are getting frustrated when everything isn't perfect to their vision, whether that's lemmy code or other instances they are federated with. Then they complain and contribute nothing towards making the fediverse better. I guess what I'm saying is that they really do seem to want a walled garden that's perfect to some idealized community that only exists in their heads, and I don't think communities really work like that.
An old-school forum would hit 100% of their needs (mature software that isn't janky like Lemmy, they have low activity meaning nested comments and activity sorting aren't needed, better moderation tools), but they still have Reddit brainworms and believe forums are technologically inferior to Reddit.
This is hardly a surprise. When you adopt an anti-communist stance, you pave the way for unhealthy social trends to takeover, which increases the moderation workload considerably, and forces you into an unsustainable method of operating. Perhaps the decay has finally reached a stage advanced enough to send them back to the likes of Silicon Valley centralized models.
Hexbear has survived all this time because, like China, has been engaging in self-reform to address the problem of rise and fall. So long as Hexbear continues this path, it will continue to go the distance.
The other big instances that are here today may not be in a few months, or years. Fascinating to see from a dialectical perspective.
Hexbear has survived all this time because, like China, has been engaging in self-reform to address the problem of rise and fall. So long as Hexbear continues this path, it will continue to go the distance.
I want to say that another major factor is that communists have a sense of "just keep going" to them. Keep the work going, keep marching, keep building. The only thing that you can do is push through adversity and keep moving forwards.
There have been several moments in Hexbear's history where people could have given up on it, team burnout and emotional distress in particular. But instead decided to just keep up the long march. Pushing through those down times eventually led to the good times.
A big part of this is willpower and real dedication to the mission goal.
Absolutely. Unlike liberals, who have no sense of direction or any clue how to move toward the future, communists actually engage in development, both self and collective. Thus, we have a future, whereas liberals stand still and let all of this just pass them by (like US infrastructure compared to China's).
Liberalism will always be doomed to fail, just as capitalism will always follow the trend toward common ruin. The pursuit of communism will always follow the trend of common prosperity and the revitalization of the people.
Leave these relics of failed states to toddle off the coil while we continue to build a better future.
Hexbear has survived all this time because, like China, has been engaging in self-reform to address the problem of rise and fall. So long as Hexbear continues this path, it will continue to go the distance.
This is really sad for me. Beehaw was what helped me really dive into the Fediverse, and then I found midwest.social through them, and then you guys federated, and now I'm here... but they're such a kind and sweet place on the Internet.
I get that they're mostly lib af, but still, they're very kind, well-meaning folk, and I wouldn't have found you all without them.
I've been meaning to dive back in over there to say hi and be supportive but have had so much irl stuff going on, and man oh man, it just really hurts my heart that they're going through such terrible growing pains. I meant to contribute to the living expenses of one of the admins because I appreciate their work so much, and then I adhd-taxed myself and got some overdraft fees and was distracted with hexbear in the meantime and totally forgot, and damn do I feel like an asshole.
Idk what the point of this is, except to say that they're really wonderfully kind people over there, and I'm so sorry that things are getting so difficult for them.
I need to put some money where my heart is and contribute more to them and to hexbear.
We are privileged to have you here with us, comrade the_ibst
midwest.social mentioned 🔥🔥🔥 but yeah thats the vibe i got from them too. one of the few libby instances that dont still constantly bring up hexbear despite defederating, pretty unfortunate to lose em
Interesting to hear your perspective, because although I've never checked it out myself, the overall perception of them around here is very not good
Do you know why? This piece is the shortest of many essays they've got about what they're trying to achieve and why. The basic gist is that they want to make a kind, supportive online community as a refuge for marginalized people. It's an anti-dunking community, so definitely not everyone's cup of tea, but I'm curious what about them might cause a negative view.
Edit: I really appreciate all the information and perspective ❤️ thanks, everyone
hexbear must go!
Good riddance?
They've contributed nothing to lemmy but pain and problems. They do not provide any value to it. They do not federate with anyone. They've done nothing but take from the devs and done nothing but try to harm the project.
Sounds like internal issues. Whoever exists on their team that has the basic minimum technical knowledge to implement anything is burned and leaving so they're trying to put a spin on this.
Where did that bring you? Back to me
Lmao fuck em
After all the lies they've made up about lemmygrad I'm only going to cheer their downfall
I must have missed that stuff. What exactly did they say?
"Lemmygrad is not hot"
https://lemmygrad.ml/post/714337?scrollToComments=true
It's been a while back
i'm not really familiar with the nitty-gritty details of the software, but what could be such a large issue with lemmy that it's unworkable to run beehaw (700 users/month) while instances several times the size are getting along just fine? skill issue?
Beehaw admins have been complaining about the difficulty of modding federated users for a while. I think this is partly a skill issue, partly that they're federated with some of the worse lib instances we've defedded, and also partly that they've prohibited dunking but not saying dumb libshit worthy of dunking.
In short, they are uncomfortable collaborating with communists on the technical end and lack the expertise / willpower to maintain a fork independently. It is kind of a skill issue, but there is no need to over-glorify the code-monkeys either. A community of 700+ people certainly has people among its ranks with the skills to do this work. What it lacks is the motivation. Nobody sees it as a calling. Nobody sees it as urgent or necessary work.
More like been haw lmao owned
Very funny that they're looking to throw in the towel relatively early.
Good fucking riddance lmao
Just crawl back to reddit already
I'm sure going to a dying platform will help lmao
a dying platform for a dying community based around a dying ideology
it rhymes, like poetry
All these Lemmy meta-threads are like when the children in Darling In The Franxx start talking about their feelings.
We should offer to federate with them in solidarity
E: I’m serious, we should extend a hand and offer to harass Nazis. We should offer a squad of “Hexbear Rangers” to help them with sitewide moderation.
More like, has been, haw haw haw
Skill issue lol
Who they?
They're the instance that insisted on no bigotry from either the right or the left and adopted a very strong anti-communist stance. Their whole instance is full of nazi dogwhistles now, which I'm sure is quite a shock to everyone here. Their admins have always been uncomfortable that lemmy isn't reddit and was created by dirty, filthy commies and hate that communists use the platform, even if they are defederated from all but the most liberal instances as this point.
What is the origin of the beehaw community?
Back in the early days if lemmy, they got sick of all the tankies and wanted their own 'non political' instance, which is still full of politics.
I think one of the people that started it messaged me early on asking if I wanted to be involved. I was pretty 'anti-tankie' at the time but that was before I had engaged with actual liberals online as much as I do now on lemmy. I'd take a tankie over a lib any day now.
Anyway, since the beginning of beehaw they just projected an aura of smugness across the other instances (I think there were only 3-4 at the time though). I originally had hopes they would succeed and become a good addition the lemmyverse since most of their users seemed like decent leftists generally speaking bit their apparent full on support for the state department in eastern Europe made me cringe.
more like peehaw
😔
All they ever did is spread sectarian bullshit, so we'll be better or without them
aaand P_K backs the wrong horse yet again.
bit.