Italy investigates Placebo singer for calling far-right PM ‘racist’ and ‘fascist’

Meloni is definitely far-right, and comes from a historically fascist party. So he is just stating the facts here.
- Do you mean the well the well known racist and fascist Giorgia Meloni?
  
  Is Georgia Menoni known to the rest of the world as anything other but the well known racist and fascist Giorgia Meloni?
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandra_Mussolini , proud member of Forza Italia and defender of her grandfather.
  
  She blocked me on Twitter just for telling her a really cool fact: there's an emoji of her grandfather. It's this one! 🙃

how to tell if youre in a facist state:
the person accusing the facist goes to jail
- Then it's not a fascist state. Moving on
- It's the sign of a civilised state, where you can't just randomly offend whoever you want a scale, you need to go to court and prove that you actually have proofs about what you're saying. I applaud this move from the government, the left wings after years of cutting public services to bend to corporativism and ECB, leaving the country in the hands of all sort of migrants without doing anything for security, finally got what they deserve, and now everyone else is a fascist, but with no content
  
  Oh, Lemmy has fascists now.
  The left wing was cutting public services, right. Famous left wing policy. I think you're thinking of liberals.
  
  Sorry but people who openly admire Mussolini (the original self-proclaimed fascist) are fascists pretty much by definition. Sounds like you may be one of them.
  
  If "civilised" means I have to tolerate fascists then I don't wanna be civilised

As Porco Rosso said: “I’d rather be a pig than a fascist”. Be like Porco Rosso…
- Porko Rosso
  
  No, they got it right
  Unless there's a pun I'm missing here
  
  No, they got it right
  Unless there's a pun I'm missing here

I'm sure Placebo, a British band, doesn't give a single dry fuck what this stupid Italian fascist wants to investigate.
Someone is about to learn what "Streisand Effect" means.
- You mean racist fascist Giorgio Bologna?
- They were in Italy at the time so I suppose they could have caused issues if they went full full fascist.

Ah, yes, nothing like forbidding people from calling out fascism to prove your government isn't fascist.

Didn't the world fight a world war to stop this kind of government from taking full control over a people?
- Nah, Italy's fascists were never really purged, because the occupying Americans preferred them to the Communist partisans
  
  I'm not saying that Americans didn't play their dirty tricks as usual, but it was Italian voters that elected Meloni, not the US..
- WW2 was started by the Nazis, so it was really them fighting for something. The rest of the world just defended itself
  It's a lot more problematic when the Nazis call from inside the house.
  
  Ethiopians would disagree
- Nah, just the one. And it was because he was killing hordes of people, not controlling them.
  
  Um Mussolini's Fascist Italy was very much in the war

Literal actual fascists behaving like fascists, surprise surprise.
- Yeah this was my thought reading this, too.
  Who woulda thunk that when you give the fascists power, they don't stop being fascists! #surprisedpikachu

TIL about Italy's shunning of their past in contrast to the "collective guilt" felt by Germans after WWII
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italiani_brava_gente
- Have you ever heard of Mafia. Bc if you come to this country they will mostly collectively lie and tell you" Hun? Naaaa that's gone". You live here for a while and you like, oh ok, we just pretending it's gone nice.
- The fact that the Italian military & it's leaders were spared from the Nuremberg Trials made this all the easier.
- Italy has a real hardware love for fascism, it's part of the culture, unfortunately. I wouldn't be surprised if they go full Nazi in the coming decades.
  
  After WW2 italian socialist and communist parties where between the strongest ones in non USRR europe (if not the number one), but let's just spout random nonsense for no reason
  While the extreme right wing never disappeared, they were as much as a niche as the extreme left.
  The country stayed between the left and the center until well into the 90s when a moderate right became more prominent and started to be closer to a 50/50 split
  The general right wing radicalization we're seeing now is way more recent and it's hardly a phenomenon exclusive to Italy.
  I totally agree that the current Italian government is ridiculous and that this problem with extreme right wing populism is becoming very serious in most western countries, Italy included.
  But comparing this to a culture ingrained love for fascism when fascism didn't last for even 1% of Italian history and culture is just asinine and ignorant.
  This kind of attitude is ironically very similar to the racism you're trying to criticize
  
  Italy has a real hardware love for fascism
  yup even italian computers are infected
- Sometimes it feels that Italy consists entirely of pasta, fascism and 🤌.

Now, what I would do if I were Brian Molko is I would absolutely go to trial. Turn it in a show. Either I get convicted, in which case, Meloni looks even more like a fascist, or I get exonerated, in which case, it's the courts that are accepting that she's a fascist.
5000E is not an issue, he can fundraise that in an afternoon.
GO BRIAN

I've never really been a Placebo fan or a supporter until right now
- Brian's duet with David Bowie is a thing of beauty.
  
  Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=c14qMbmP9eg
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.

Proving them right, I see
- Person: "You're a fascist"
  Government: "That's wrong; we're gonna use the power of the state to investigate and punish you for something you said"
  Person: "Oh well I stand corrected. Totally not fascist at all...."
  
  Thats the fascist paradox.
  Call someone a fascist, if they want to oppress you because you lied, then you are right, so they can oppress you, but if they dont oppress you, then you are wrong and you are to be oppressed, but then you will be right.
  
  The USSR would also persecute people for criticizing the Soviet state or its leaders, but they weren't fascist. Authoritarianism is something people on the left and right both get up to.
- As Italian is worth mentioning that these nationalist dimwits we have now in charge have being elected with a genius grade new electoral law pushed by the centre left coalition and especially devised in a bipartisan accord between the centre left and the centre right coalition to counter the rise of Movimento 5 Stelle (or any new "small" party) which would then interfere, as indeed it did in the previous election, with the well established bi-partitism which had been instated from Berlusconi since the late 90's (as per P2 Masonry Group Manifest bullet point, https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_di_rinascita_democratica and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due).
  As result of this new electoral law Meloni is holding Italian government by the balls with a mere actual 16,4% of votes on the voters total.
  Let's go into numbers, indeed Meloni coalition ("centre" right, lol) got 43,79% of the total valid votes, of which 26% for Meloni's own Fratelli d'Italia party, but you must consider that these percentages do not include the 36,91% of citizens holding voting rights which didn't actually vote at all, which means this non-group missed to be the largest non-coalition by little and de-facto resulted in non-being the most non-representative non-party.
  So accounting for the 36.91% of non-voters Meloni is acting like an empress embodying the second coming of Mussolini with a scant 16.4% of actual voting preference. For this don't forget to thank the center-left for pushing the afore mentioned new electoral law, because this only is what enabled her to act like she's doing.
  BONUS: article on some buried past of Meloni as failed nerd wannabe career using public money
  https://kotaku.com/georgia-meloni-italian-pm-fps-shooter-game-pope-unreal-1850163072
  
  We have an old saying in Germany, from the times of the Weimar Republic's communists, which roughly translates to:
  "Who has betrayed us? The Social Democrats"
  It rhymes in German.

She's literally the head of a self proclaimed fascist party, isn't she?
- Evil politicians aren't evil because they have some spooky magic evil disorder. Please stop perpetuating this. ~Cherri
- Fascist in everything but name. They want everyone to follow the same song and dance that they're totally not fascist tho

Fascist gonna crybully

Meloni, 46, heads Italy’s most rightwing government since the second world war. Italy’s criminal code punishes with a fine ranging from €1,000 to €5,000 (£858 to £4,290) anyone who “publicly defames the republic”, which includes the government, parliament, the courts and the army.
Wow. Ok then...I guess technically he did violate that law and so it shouldn't matter how fucked up that law is with respect to an investigation being done about it, but can we still talk about how fucked up that law is in an EU country? Yeah I know Italy's a little bit different and such, but goddamn.
W would have loved to have had something like this when the Dixie Chicks got out of line over Iraq (though his response quoted there seems oddly...reasonable? ehh, fuck W): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_Chicks_controversy
- Why is fascism even defamation of they love fascism so much?
  
  Unfortunately in Italy it still is, baffling as it is
  
  But you need to prove that you're stating facts, and that's why you need to defend yourself in court, social media polls don't work as law/government entity body
  
  Fair enough.
- They have it in a lot of other countries in Europe too. Its fucking disgusting and constantly abused by conservatives. You also see it being used against people who insult the church in certain countries.

So no freedom of speech?
- "Free speech bro's would kindly request that all free speech is fully aligned with the party policies..... thank you"
- You're free to be super duper racist, sexist, ableist, pretty much any kind of discrimination you want. Isn't that enough?
  
  No, I want talking shit about governments without government punishment. Ya know, freedom of speech
  
  as long as you direct these towards groups/people we also hate.
  
  Not if it means I have to trade away my right to criticize the government.
- Yeah, wtf?
  In a democratic state it is imperative that the population is free to criticize their government.
  What is the EU saying about this? Don't they have demands on member states to uphold democratic values?

I've been surprised that some western countries have laws like this. A French woman has also been fined for insulting Macron.
- The public prosecution department in Germany let someone's home got searched because he called a conservative politician "Du bist so 1 Pimmel" ("you are such a penis") via Twitter.
  At the same time the public prosecution department in Germany regularly refuses to take action against hate speech when aimed against other people. Even other politicians.
  And since many people do not really understand our jurisdiction, they believe it is enough to protest against the police.
  
  I wonder what their response would be to a bunch of lemmings outside the reach of Germany's laws doing the same?
- It's almost like making laws against free speech is a slippery slope.
  
  It can be, but not all speech is free, not even in the US.
- To be exact, there is a difference between insult and defamation
  I'm not too sure about the technicalities either, so I'm not sure if insulting is also a problem.
  But declamation requires saying something false to ruin the other person's reputation, and it's actually a crime even against normal people
  
  declamation requires saying something false to ruin the other person's reputation
  *defamation
  Declamation is a form of rhetoric.

Somebody once remarked that it's funny how everyone acts like Italians all walk around being Mario Brothers but the Italians just roll with it.
It's because some Italians were the people who invented Fascism as a formal political movement, and you know damn well how that ended up, so if going "It's-a me, Giancarlo!" every once in a while gets the world to forget, they'll take it.
But then this happens, and you have to start talking about spaghetti as much as possible.
- Don't even have to go that far back: Italy is massively corrupt with organized crime running parts of the country and with a literal facsist representing them in the EU Parliment(Mussolinis granddaugher in fact). This current prime minister that is being referred to in the post is a self-proclaimed "national conservative".
  And the fact that they kept letting Berlusconi run things is all the proof you need of how corrupt the entire country is(his "controversies" part on wikipedia is so large that it has its own page with 160 citations, he is also connected to the party of the person mentioned above).
  But it has some amazing tourist locations and food, so people gloss over that as well.
- Italians where also the ones that invented the republic, so what?
  Fascism was and will always be a disgrace in Italian history, but maybe you should research Piazzale Loreto to see how much people ended up liking fascism in the end.
  Of course there are extremist idiots in Italy like in any other country, but Italy official position on it was made very clear.
  Even making a fascist group or association is literally a crime in Italian law.
  This doesn't change that the current situation is very bad of course, but right wing populism and fascism are not nearly the same thing, even if one could lead to the other
- This has to be one of the most stereotypically racist remarks I've read in a while here on lemmy. They might be remarks, but still sheesh
  
  Italians embrace their cultural and gastronomic exports while shunning certain parts of their history - I wouldn't say that's racist... In fact I would call that humanizing

Anytime Meloni gets upset about anything I just remind her to be like her grandpa and turn that frown upside down.
- You're thinking of Alessandra Mussolini.
  
  Dang, thought this one was related to him too. We can still turn them upside down though right?

That move just makes Brian seem more reasonable.

So.... they proved him right?
- Kind of have to. Either he's right and they do something of either he's not right and broke a law, at which point they have to do something
  
  Or they're fascists

It's not defamation if it's true. Getting punished for stating the obvious is the hallmark of a fascist state. It's fishy that the original video from Repubblica has been removed.
- Per Wikipedia:
  Defamation, at a first approximation, is any form of communication that can injure a third party's reputation.
  So it might be slander, dpending on Italy's laws. :(
  
  That might apply to the 'piece of shit' part, but the 'fascist' and 'racist' part are true, and not damaging her reputation, as her reputation with her voters is built upon these

but he's right, so what?

Brian Molko continues to be based

Gotta love the dipshits in the replies pushing the whole "the left calls anyone who disagrees with them a fascist!!1!" while conveniently leaving out any and all context as to what they're disagreeing about. ~Cherri

So they're not even pretending to have free speech anymore.
- In a lot of ways, the fascism that Italy invented never left. I had hopes 20-30 years ago, but they have been roundly dashed.
  
  sad but true
- I mean, this was always a crime, it's not like it's a new law.
- Except when you piss off a fascist, apparently.

More countries really need an irony clause in their constitutions. When the irony gets to this level clearly there are insufficient checks and balances in place.

If I had the money of a lead singer of international band I would consider a €5k fine a "campaign donation" to the other side and go call them fascist and get it in the papers.

For “contempt of the institutions.”

“Giorgia Meloni, piece of shit, fascist, racist,” Molko shouted in Italian, as seen in fan videos from the concert posted on social media.
That's not defamation, that's a factual news update.
- Even calling it a news update isn't really accurate. It's more akin to "water is wet."

Yeah, but do they investigate for defamation or exposing "state secrets"?

At first I thought they were talking about Placebo Domino.
- I think you mean Plácido Domingo.
  
  Placebo Domingo LMAO

O:

- This user's entire post history is hating artists and actively praising fascism.
  Specifically artists, even. Very odd.
  
  There's anti-art hate spewed by the right, it surprised me too but its there. A lot of them usually start their rants with "art isn't political" or "art has no value except monetary" and go from there
  That gorilla account got banned btw
- How does this relate to an issue people face?
  https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/italian-government-limits-parental-rights-of-gay-couples-1.6312851
  
  In the absence of such recognition, the non-birth mother or father must go through the adoption process to establish parental rights
  That's pretty standard

While I seriously wonder what exactly they mean by "far-right", that law shouldn't exist
- I seriously wonder what exactly they mean by “far-right”
  Fascist admirers of Mussolini would usually qualify as far right:
  Who is Giorgia Meloni? The rise to power of Italy's new far-right PM
  
  Thank you. People seriously need to stop acting like words don't have meaning and it's impossible for actual fascists to actually exist.
  "But whatabout teh mom & pop shops!" was from day 1 a deliberate talking point that existed to delegitimize the very legitimate protests. Do you really think none of the Tea Party contemporaries said the exact same thing about them? "Whatabout those poor sailors who carried that tea who are losing their payday and had nothing to do with the Stamp Act? Whatabout the poor local community merchants who will lose out on all those tea sales now? The Stamp Act is not their fault." Do you really think none of the loyalists were saying that?
  We need to face the fact that we have a class of American citizens who continue to suffer under an oppressive police state. Their protests are valid
  
  It's possible they're getting hung up on the fact that you are using the western, dumbed down Fisher-Price version of the political spectrum where both sides are capitalism.
  The actual political plot is a two-dimensional thing. Where left and right is defined by capitalism and socialism only. With a separate axis completely for social issues. Meaning that neo-libertarians, capitalists that favor social democracy, and authoritarians/fascist can all be equally far right. Likewise Authoritarian Leninists, social democracy favoring socialist/communist, true libertarian, and anarchist can all be equally far left. Despite all of them differing wildly on social issues.
  Though I definitely could be wrong and they could just be apologizing for fascist. Sometimes it's hard to tell.
  
  From your article, "Yes to the natural family, no to the LGBT lobby, yes to sexual identity, no to gender ideology... no to Islamist violence, yes to secure borders, no to mass migration... no to big international finance... no to the bureaucrats of Brussels!"
  So Western European far right,so centrist or even left wing everywhere else.
  It also seems shes distanced herself from fascists.
- I think my biggest problem is I don't speak Italian, and google is not being helpful.