My dad fought the Nazi's they lost. The world knows it. What is the deal with their recent resurgence?
My dad fought the Nazi's they lost. The world knows it. What is the deal with their recent resurgence?
151 comments
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They have kinda always been a thing. Nazi's were just one flavor of nationalist, after all.
Charles de Gaulle defined nationalism best: "Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first."
For most people, it's extremely easy to blame others for problems of their own creation. By the same token, people who can't see their own shortcomings will also usually latch on to leaders who are able to amplify that bias. For the Nazis, it was mostly against the jews.
Also, what you are seeing in the news is partially amplified by the news itself but also, politicians are getting more brazen in mustering the support of those groups. This has lead to people being a little more open about something that needs to stay taboo, IMHO.
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Another interesting property of fascists is how their "enemy" is described in lurid but contradicting ways that don't make any sense when you think about it for more than half a second.
One minute, the "enemy" is described as weak, pathetic, disgusting, sub-human, sickly, cowardly, stupid little losers who can't punch out of a wet paper bag. The next minute, the "enemy" is described as threatening, all-seeing, clever, oppressive, bold and brazen, powerful, influential, dominating the government, ruining people's lives, etc.
It's maddening. And some people are absolute suckers for it.
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Because we have been letting them run their mouths again without being afraid.
You wana know how to get them to shut the fuck up look up why nazis don't go to punk shows anymore.
You want to get rid of them. You have 2 options 1 is illegal, and I can't say what it is, and option 2 is through education and thearpy and them wanting to change.
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A similar option that I'm willing to say is "see a nazi, punch a nazi." I am anti-violence, but I don't have a problem with people who punch nazis. Nazi principles are vile.
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I can say what it is…beat the shit out of them. I probably won’t unless it came to war, and then I would use weapons instead.
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Dude I live in Ohio and see the confederate flag on porches. OHIO!!!! I'm so far north in Cleveland that only a lake seperates me from Canada!!!
We were NEVER part of the confederacy! And once you leave Cleveland area, into the rural farmlands, its all confederate flags and trump flags.
That should tell you everything you need to know.
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Iowa here, same thing. This state has a very progressive history, but that's being erased at lightning speed
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That should tell you everything you need to know.
That morons live everywhere.
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Was at the musuem in Gettysburg recently and the amount of Confederate flag hats/shirts I saw was wild. I'm sure the contents of the museum would've upset them if they could read
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There have always been susceptible idiots.
Nazi's are just a byproduct of an eroding standard of living. When things are good and getting better, there just isn't the fertile ground for that kind of ideology, even among the idiots.
When standard of living is on the decline? Anyone who gives a simple answer and a simple solution gets the attention of idiots.
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It reminds me of and I don't know where I read it at but there was this guy who was trying to sell his pet rock in Africa. And told the buyer it keeps lions away. The buyer asked how does it work. The seller simply told him you do not see any lions do you and the buyer bought it.
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It could be a joke that's been around forever, but I know it from The Simpsons: https://youtu.be/4GzMizVAl-0
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Because a specific group of populists 'lost', but populism still works and will continue to work wherever there is people in dire situations.
The more dire your situation is, the more you need a solution. And then someone telling you "it's the fault of those other people", that just offers up a real straightforward supposed solution.
Even if it's pretty clear that it cannot possibly actually solve the real problem, the prospect of a mild improvement will have many going along and ignoring morals.
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Fascism also thrives on fear. It's not a coincidence that far-right populism grew massively during the pan.
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it's the fault of those other people
This is what is tho... There people who are directly at fault. The issue who is who fascist blame and how they won't ever name their daddies is part of the problem... When in reality owner class pushing this shit are the ones causing the dire circumstances for the working class to begin with.
It is a clever tactic and has proven very effective at manipulating men with fragile egos.
Funny enough, fake news will never call out anything that would endanger economic interests of the owner class. Why would anyone take these clowns seriously?
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If you think your dad was sent to fight against the Nazis for ideological opposition, i have bad news for you. Maybe he personally fought out of that motivation, but must countries at the time were either fascist themselves or on the edge to fascism.
If you look at the US there was the ongoing genocide against native Americans, the racial segregation, eugenics, despicable human experimentation carried out on minorities, concentration camps for Japanese during WW2... Even the pledge to the flag in the schools was something Hitler admired and copied. Until the German Nazis became unpopular in the US the pledge to the flag with done with the "Bellamy Salute" that is the same as the Nazi salute. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute
)The truth is, they never left.
What is different though is that after WW2 it was understood which social problems, in particular fucking over the lower and middle class, create the breeding ground for fascism to be successful. Since the 1980s with Thatcher and Reagan and then the neoliberal wave over Europe, we had 40 years of deliberately empowering fascism. Now they reap what they sew.
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I have to differ on your last point. I don't think capitalism is necessarily at fault, nor must the working/middle classes be struggling for fascism to emerge. If anything, quite the opposite. It is the better off countries that end up turning fascist. All fascist countries are/were first world countries, in various states of advanced development.
I think it would be more accurate to say that fascism is an extreme form of imperialism, because they are ultimately very similar sentiments. A more powerful group taking advantage in various ways, of a less powerful group. Now you could say, "it's all the same thing", capitalism, imperialism, fascism, it's all the same "hierarchy is the ultimate source of evil dynamic", but it seems to me that this just reduces all these concepts to absurdity.
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Fascism is also on the rise because of improved technology for thought control / propaganda / public relations / advertising. Social media lets the worst of humanity band together and pool their energy.
But wealth inequality, both worse effective quality of life for the poor and increased economic power by the wealthy is I believe a main driver. Technology is just the tool. The ultra wealthy and their lackeys today have more power than ever and are more isolated and inundated with ideology that is basically insane.
I wonder if there are studies that show correlations between quality of life and fascism in different nations.
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I don’t think capitalism is necessarily at fault, nor must the working/middle classes be struggling for fascism to emerge. If anything, quite the opposite. It is the better off countries that end up turning fascist. All fascist countries are/were first world countries, in various states of advanced development.
That's not right, at least not for the fascist regimes in Europe that emerged prior to WW2. The countries where it happened (specifically Germany/Italy/Spain) had all seen civil unrest or even civil war in the recent past, they were hit hard by the global financial crisis in the twenties and had high unemployment and widespread poverty. This was the very thing the fascists used to ingratiate themselves to the public at large, by creating jobs through massive public building and rearmament projects.
By the way "first world countries" is post-WW2 terminology and didn't originally have a connotation of superior economic status, but was referring strictly to ideological alignment. Whether a country belonged to the capitalist/communist/unaligned block in international politics during the cold war.
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Capitalisms' unsustainable model of infinite growth requires something like imperialism to keep going, and even if you could point out alternative venues for capital acquisition, it's still what people in power want, since it gives them more than just fuel for capitalism, but also more power. Countries and companies that do not rely on imperialism directly, most often rely in others that do. While it's not entirely futile to discuss whenever that has to be the case in theorethical capitalist solution, it is the case in one we're living under, and since it's the ruling class of hyper-wealthy that make decisions about the worlds future and current state of affairs is result of those decisions, it is the system we have to deal with. Unless, you know, we bring out the guilottines and start over, but I don't see much point in retrying capitalism to see if it won't lead us down on the path to facism again.
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Considering the Nazi’s were inspired by the US in many ways and the US continued promoting their racist opinions on immigrants, doing coups, and installing far right dictators around the world im more surprised the resurgence isnt bigger.
look at the genocide being funded and armed by the US in Palestine. Israel is invading and preparing for war with like 4? Countries already? Arguing they can rape people they detain and the US threatens the International Criminal Court after they deemed Netanyahu is a war criminal.
The US leads the world culture in a big way, the US is promoting an authoritarian who admires Hitler and the opposition to him continues sending bombs to a war criminal and threatens people who want to stop him.
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Hitler called the genocide of native Americans ‘the first great cleansing’ and used it as a framework for ‘his second’. To think that Hitler looked up to the United States really starts to change you as an American. Especially in our current context.
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He was also inspired by how racist the US was and how they had demonized and segregated Black peoples as second class citizens while still having a great public perception as a country on the world stage
Nazis also used Zyklon B in gas chambers inspired by the US using it in Mexicans crossing the border to have to work
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Its been a long slow boil. And Nazis were only part of the problem. In the early 1930s many businessmen and Republicans in the US plotted a Hitler style coup against FDR. They did worse than Hitler, but escaped most consequences. And over the last century quietly plotted and built. Here and abroad. Fostering the "right kind" of fascism. Theirs.
It probably would have gone on a little longer. Because I don't think they were quite ready to actually try to coup again. But they've been socially engineering a new class of supremely manipulable Voters who lack any critical thinking skills. However a childish malignant narcissist managed to get the attention of that tool. And stole it from the Republican fascist. Basically largely spoiling the plot. And causing them to have to move before they were ready.
Also the ability for instance Global and often still largely Anonymous communication made propaganda easier and cheaper than ever before. The old style leaflet drops over territories were never very effective. And even radio broadcasts or easy to thwart. Now enemy Nations only need to pay a few people for online shitposting in hot beds lacking critical thinking. And they can turn their enemies people into their own tools.
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Short version: the Nazis lost but the fascists won.
WWII basically ended in fascists vs fascists - Nazi Germany pulled a lot of their ideas from the US and before Pearl Harbor the US stance was ambivalent. They thought Hitler had some good points, but it would be OK if he lost.
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Are you serious they pay people to troll? Kind of make me wonder how much and is it even worth it.
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Definitely. In a lot of developing countries with basic internet access these people can actually make good livings doing that. As long as they're skill in the foreign language is adequate enough. Though today a lot of that is being taken over by basic low-end generative machine learning models. Something else false information faster than it takes to debunk it.
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capitalism. fascism is the logical conclusion of capitalism, so the entire world living in a capitalist society helps fascism rise. if you crush people's spirits hard enough, you can give them easy solutions to their problems so they can get off your scent.
no no, the billionaires are awesome; it's the immigrants honey. the education system would be awesome if not for drag queens baby. you would have healthcare but see it's all the DEI hire sweetie.
it's just lizard brain shit. "brown people bad" is just an easier and more convenient message to digest than trying to understand how the government and the economy actually works.
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I mean no sarcasm in this but you seem very knowledgeable do you got any links or something to support it because I love reading.
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Not OP, but maybe the following: "The Mass Psychology of Fascism" by Wilhelm Reich provides an analysis of the psychological appeal of fascism, examining how economic conditions and capitalist societies create environments where fascist ideologies can thrive.
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Sigh. One could also make the argument that capitalism is the only reason we have democracy at all. I am not allergic to socialist thinking, but putting all the blame on capitalism for everything is intellectually lazy.
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I doubt the person you’re replying to would disagree that the advent of capitalism is in fact what brought liberal democracy into existence. The point though is that such progress is unsustainable under a capitalist system and that it will result in various crises, war, and fascism. Therefore we do need to find a way to move past capitalism if we want even the possibility of creating a better world.
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billionaires are so afraid of being taxed they'll happily fund people and groups who want to kill people who want to tax them.
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The real billionaires love taxation. It helps them getting rid of the competition.
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Severely undereducated selfish people who think all of their problems is someone else’s or some other tribe’s fault.
Almost all Nazis share one common trait: a complete lack of empathy.
And almost all American Nazis share two additional traits: no critical thinking skills and gullibility.
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most of people lack criticall thinking skill
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In your opinion would you consider the orange face dipshit a nazi?
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You didn't ask me but I'll respond. I would call him an opportunist. If it benefits him to attract nazis, he will. He doesn't seem to have any political leaning. He is a conman.
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He shares traits with them. But no, he’s an 8 year old boy trapped in a 78 year old body trying to compensate for his tiny penis and no balls. He will use Nazis just like he uses everyone. As the other commenter said, he’s a con artist and grifter.
When he’s long dead, aside from a footnote in American history books stating he was the worst president since Buchanan, he will be forgotten. Of course this can’t come soon enough.
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They didn't lose. You're probably talking about Nazi Germany. Yes, that country lost. Doesn't mean Nazis in Germany magically disappeared. Doesn't mean Nazis anywhere else disappeared. Your dad never won over Nazis, just one particular Nazi country.
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Even though he fought all across Europe?
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The Nazi party fled to many corners of the globe. Fascism exists outside of the Nazi party. Between those two things, fascism never really died. The Nazi party was shut down, made illegal in much of Europe. The other fascists welcomed those that made it out. Most modern day fascists that use Nazi imagery are called neo-nazis. Not the same group from WW2. Neo-nazis have been around for decades. Until recently they were not nearly as organized.
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That still doesn't mean that all Nazis just magically stopped existing. Sure, a lot of them were killed in the war, but way more of them weren't
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There is no "recent resurgence".
- Nazis never went away. Underground Nazi groups, as well as fully fledged Nazi political parties were common throughout post-WWII Europe.
- The people fighting the Nazis weren't ideologically much better than them. The Americans were still racist as fuck. The British and the French were imperialist world dominators. All of these allies were involved in their own genocides. The Soviets believed in sacrificing huge swaths of their own people to accomplish "great leaps forward".
- Nazism and similiar ideologies are fundamentally based on in-group bias, and that is just something psychological. There will always be people who are more open to others and people who are less open to others.
- If you look at recent wars, you will see that even the non-Nazi, "moderate", "liberal", "centrist" political parties can have blood on their hands and be complicit in atrocities very much reminiscent of the evil the Nazis committed.
I think the bottom line is, you have to unlearn a lot of the just-so narratives that you have been taught about the world.
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I will do you one better.
Compare USSR since Stalin to Nazi Germany.
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Authoritarianism and personality cult in both cases.
As for the rest, it differed drastically.
Nazi Germany was a reactionary ultra-nationalist ultra-militarist right-wing state that pursued a neverending war to make "living room" for Germans at the expense of everybody else and death to Jews and Gypsies.
Soviet Union was built on the premise of equality and egalitarian society that was only militant against the bourgeoisie. It was built around internationalism and peace of nations.
Yes, it should be noted that during the war Stalin has ordered to move some national groups that were "strategically likely" to join Nazis away from the frontline, which is, let's say, not great by modern humanitarian standards. But exterminating them was never his goal, and they were very much alive and returned to their homeland afterwards. Quite a contrast with Nazis actually shooting or poisoning everyone remotely Jewish, leaving them to a painful death.
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Is your dad still around? Maybe he was holding them at bay.
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His dad sounds like a good man. I'd like to shake his hand. Or if thats not an option, salute his headstone.
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As actual living memory fades away it almost seems like a natural inevitability. It is already as mythologicial to many as World War 1 cavalry.
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This.
Good people make soft people make bad people make good people.
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I guess people like to be lied to. They prefer to live in their own imagined worlds fueled by lies and propaganda instead of facing real problems, finding solutions, and sometimes just admit to being wrong. This is why rectionaries are getting so much approval in our fast changing world. sometimes people are not ready for speed of those changes, do not forget not forget it hasnt been long time since we left our caves. and billionaires propaganda is making it's part too
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They weren't all executed, that's the deal
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So when do we get to where we stop considering them human?
I wanna go to a theme park where they have trapped Nazis that we practice throwing knives at, or practice killing multiple with one grenade toss or something.
Edit: Upon further thought, I would amend the wording. Considering them human works, but universally thought of as how do the kids say it now "the worst timeline" version of humans. One to be removed. Like a literal cancer. Other than having a clear example of what the worst looks like, they serve no purpose or benefit to anyone else, and can universally be denied rights and consideration.
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We're better than they are. We don't dehumanize people. We can still execute them, but we acknowledge that humanity is capable of awful shit and always strive to be better.
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It’s not just Nazis. The world is trending towards authoritarianism across the board, on the right and the left. Democratic and social institutions everywhere are failing. People don’t trust each other anymore.
The real problem: in the race to build massive civilizations we have destroyed all of our communities.
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Millions of people died from COVID yet look how many denied its effects (and still do) and didn't/don't get vaccinated. Because it wasn't happening to them right there in their faces (and in some cases it was and they still denied it on their death beds). If people can't even learn from that as it happened in real time all around them, what hope do we have for people to care about and learn from things that happened 80-90 years ago?
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The US imported a LOOOT of Nazis to get access to research - Operation Paperclip. So Nazis in government jobs given immunity
It makes a lot of sense how that bled out
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Paperclip is the hangout for Operation Bloodstone.
You can lie and say nazis like Werner Von Braun were actually apolitical smol beans who just wanted to do science, you can't even pretend random commanders and officers were.
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Woo, I learn more horrifying things every day!
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My dad fought the Nazi's they lost
"Oh I'm sorry. How did they die?"
"Die? No, we lost them. And now we cannot find them"
"Oh there they are! Right there!"
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The Nazis, as all the populists, offered simple solutions to complex problems. The simple people who are struggling and/or in fear of change like that a lot.
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I hate to be negative, but people have shown a propensity to dislike anyone not like them for thousands of years. Plain and simple. I think this situation can improve, but I doubt seriously, it will ever go away completely.
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I kind of wish I knew how to troll nazi's or call them out irl or just make them change the narrative. I know I am one woman but if I went about it correctly and got more people smarter than me we can shut their stupid shit down.
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Nazis are a type of narcissist (racial narcissist). Capitalism and advertising reward narcissism of all types because it means they are insecure and wanting more in life. Narcissists then flop between types of narcissism until they can get the supply they want. Like George Santos being a drag queen then homophobic congressman - it was about narcissistic supply the whole time for him.
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Nazis and disabled people are enemies. Disabled people aren't oppressing themselves. Most Nazis are neurotypical and fully abled.
If you hate disabled people, you're not an antifascist, you're a Nazi.
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I didn't say they had NPD first off. I said narcissist.
Second, I also don't think we should medicalize narcissists anyway. The only reason they get medicalized is to force incarceration or treatment. However, there's no cure for narcissism. No medication for it. No treatment at all. Why? Well, because it's just a belief system. Literally. What medicine are you going to give a Nazi or white supremacist to stop them from believing that? Nothing. You can't give them anything. It's not a disease.
And we know this because look at who gets diagnosed and imprisoned - lower level narcissists who threaten bigger ones. Lower level narcissists who can't pay or bully their way out of consequences. Donald Trump and Elon Musk aren't being imprisoned despite enormous amounts of damage done by them to others, yet that homeless dude sleeping in a tent is medicalized for calling himself Tent King.
Last, King Nazi himself was disabled (Hitler), so idk why you're acting like all disabled people are saints. We aren't. I've met disabled pedophiles. Fuck, look at Stephen Hawking and what he did with Epstein. Yes, obviously Nazis hate disabled people, but many disabled people hate disabled people too.
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It's just the age-old cycle of bad losing to good losing to weak, losing to bad.
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Ever heard of a rematch?
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It's because men with zuper tiny penis' need something to do, to prove how "manly" and "strong" they are.
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I hated nazi's to begin with. But after reading all these comments it makes me hate them even more. I do not know when the US turned to listen to even the most remote nazi?
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So just to add some factual context here. Your Dad fought actual nazis. The people we call nazis are not actually (nor will they be) that powerful. The world thanks men like your father for their success. The losers we call nazis today also go by many names, christians, christian nationalists, evangelicals, KKK, racists, bigots, white supremacists, dictators, etc. But the one name that actually describes who and what they are is Fascists.
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It's because the word has entirely different meaning now than it did back then. The vast majority of people would struggle to name even one literal nazi that's still alive today. Instead we incorrectly use that term to describe people we don't like such as Trump and Elon.
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The meaning is exactly the same. The problem is that people are not aware of what the political motivations were for the Nazis. The Nazis were known for their blatant anti-semitism, but you need to look at the bigger picture about why there are comparisons between the Nazis, Trump and Elon. Most of the comparisons are quite accurate and the term "Nazi" is more than just a dirty word.
Mildly to your point, people use the word "Nazi" when they should actually be using the terms fascist or nationalist.
What's funny, is some members of the GOP are labeling themselves as nationalists when they have no idea what it actually means. (Trump and one of the Karen's have notably done that.)
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To give an intellectually honest guess, I'd say the honest among them think that form of socialism is the best way to handle resources and that violent revolution is the only way to get there effectively. The dishonest among them likely just wanna exploit the rest of them.
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The Nazis called themselves "national-socialists", because socialism was popular at the time. Anyone who actually wanted socialism would have voted for the social-democratic party (SPD) or the communist party (KPD). The actual politics of the NSDAP were very much focused on the nationalist, xenophobic part. You just rarely have the baddies calling themselves "the baddies party".
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Well, right now, it's popular to be anti-zionist. And anti-zionists just aren't gate keeping the way they need to.
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Too much estrogen in the water
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The answer is simple. We are expanding the definition of, and redefining, Nazis. I'm familiar with the general ideology of the group & how we might classify thoughts as adjacent, but I don't see Republicans shoving Jews, homosexuals, special needs, and gypsies into concentration camps/gas chambers/ovens.
It's hard to draw lines. But I'm just going to shoot from the hip here & say, it seems to me like there's a group of people that wants not only all kinds of freedoms. But also recognition. Accolades. Worship. Dominance in the public space. Anyone that opposes this stupid agenda -yes, agenda- is a Nazi. So we equate Republicans & conservatives with murderous fuckheads that genocide entire groups of minorities. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 Yep, it's the same picture, totally the same thing, your beliefs are correct & your so-called righteous indignation is justified. We call them all Nazis, historically the worst kind of people, which of course justifies any kind of hatred or violence in response.
Shoot Trump in the head. It's more than okay, we celebrate assassination attempts, because he's literally Cheeto Hitler. He's the death of duhmoocracy. Please kill Donald Trump. If he's elected, it's the end of the United States of America, there will be no more elections. He will be a dictator, he'll never leave, duhmoocracy will be gone forever. No more duhmoocracy. Whatever will happen to America...if we lose our precious duhmoocracy? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
I want every American to analyze the situation, logically. Consider what is best for the United States. Getting back to the main discussion: look back at the Nazis in Nazi Germany & everything they did. Are genocidal German Nazis actually making a comeback? Or are we just...labeling everybody we don't like a Nazi & therefore (grossly, stupidly) expanding the definition of Nazi to conveniently demonize the other side?
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Trump is called a fascist not because of his conservative/traditional rhetoric. In fact none of the alt-right are THAT conservative. I mean, Trump himself is a pretty liberal cosmopolitan playboy.
The accusation stems from his lack of respect for democracy, rule of law and his fascist behavior. Trumpism is a fascist cult in all aspects. The movement has no real coherent ideological basis. It's literally a cult of personality surrounding Trump.
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Here we go. 🙂 FTR, I classify Trump as... Old-school Democrat, Left+1. If you will. He supports the right for abortion, which is unthinkable for hardcore Republicans. Those crazy-ass single issue voters. AKA, morons.
First sentence of paragraph two I suspect is colored by your political leanings.... The rest tbh holds some merit, but what's the alternative? Braindead Biden to the moon?? Oh wait nevermind, now it's totally Kamala,
the person everybody despised & ridiculed until 5 minutes agothe blessed Savior of duhmoocracy, the best & brightest (lol) to be the leader of the free world.I readily admit, Trump isn't our best. But without 8 years of Obama, there wouldn't be a Trump, and without a Trump there wouldn't be a Biden, and here we are again & Biden is so fucking gone. Everybody knew it. Somebody wanted Trump dead, because he actually has a chance of winning, if he didn't an attempt wouldn't be made.
So now it's Kamala (lol) vs Trump. My odds are on Trump unless some loser tried to murder him. Again. Kamala has no successes or record to stand on; she's an embarrassment. And a socialist. But I repeat myself. 🙃
The American public is forced to choose between two radically different candidates. Neither is close to ideal.
I will close with saying I respect you for honest discourse, not an anonymous downvote or saying any of the following I've gotten recently: "Lol", "You are the yikes", or "I am so totally persecuted for identifying as a super special limited edition pansexual glow in the dark holographic yo-yo, and I refuse to elaborate any further on substantial details that back up my claims to victimhood. I'm just going to post some random-ass claim to make you feel bad & illegitimately claim a moral high ground".
Trumpism has culty aspects. Agreed. But the alternative is Kamala Harris. Not choosing Trump means choosing Harris. Just another election cycle of choosing between two very different, not ideal extremes.
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Ah yes the side that calls me a pedophile (and just by sheer luck wants to give all sex offenders who commit crimes against children mind you). Great answer, both sides are obviously the same.
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What's a shame is that, for all of your words, you seem to know very little about WW2 and Nazi Germany. You've reduced it all to basically a straw man so you can win an argument no-one is making. Honestly, if I was a nazi, I'd be insulted by your reductivism. As someone against nazis, it's insulting too.
In the end, it's a lot of words to say you're a) ignorant as hell and b) probably qualify as a nazi
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lol
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