Why is everyone so giddy about the flooding thay happened at burning man?

- It's also because Burning Man, at least in the last decade or more, just turned into another affluent, rich white people and influencer event. Whatever it was to start, it's effectively glamping now.
  Sure, there are definitely some genuinely good people there, lower middle class, saved up and took their only vacation time they get all year to spend a few days there, and it sucks this happened to them. If those people end up in the hospital and the shitty insurance they get from work does fuck all to help mitigate the expenses, I'll even get angry on their behalf.
  But the majority of them? They spent a lot of money, money most people don't have the luxury of getting to spend, on a pointless self-indulgent festival in the fucking desert, and this time it's come back to bite them. My sympathy is extremely limited.
  They'll be miserable for a few days, get out, dry off, and go back to their easy lives. Their affairs are taken care of back home, they can miss days of work, their hospital stays will be covered, etc.
  It's kind of like the Fyre Festival. Those people got fucked over hard, but those people were also not the kind I particularly pitty. Spending a lot of money on an experience only to be miserable for a few days is not a tragedy. What happened to the poor people that lived there is the tragedy.
  Edit: Also just want to point out OP is trying to call this a "tragedy" when there's only been one suspected death, the cause of which is unknown as it hasn't even been confirmed yet, but the overall mood is positive, and by all accounts everything is being managed. They're trapped, not dying.
  https://apnews.com/article/burning-man-festival-flooding-entrance-closed-d6cd88ee009c6e1f6d2d92739ec1ca18
  
  It’s also because Burning Man, at least in the last decade or more, just turned into another affluent, rich white people and influencer event.
  I'm pretty sure it's been that way for at least 20 years...
  The only people I've personally known to go to Burning Man was a rich kid in high school who went with his dad who was a marketing high-up at a very big tech company. Always came back talking about trying drugs and seeing some crazy shit, but then on Tuesday it's right back to full days of pointless meetings I guess. I've never been and I frankly don't ever care to, but that alone gave me the feeling that Burning Man is where tech suits go to play hippie for the weekend, and that always felt lame as fuck.
  
  I went a couple of times years ago when it was just starting to turn into what you describe. Had a great time, but it quickly priced me out. Now, it sounds like an influencer-laden hellscape. The addition of premium plug and play sites was the nail in the coffin. That said, a lot of the old time Burners are fucking amazing, creative, resourceful, and helpful people.
  
  It's kind of like the Fyre Festival. Those people got fucked over hard, but those people were also not the kind I particularly pitty. Spending a lot of money on an experience only to be miserable for a few days is not a tragedy.
  Blame sensationalist media on this one, but it's a misconception. Very few victims spent a lot of money on Fyre Festival. Most got tickets which were purported to be "all inclusive" for <$1500 USD (a pretty good deal, had it not been fraudulent). A handful of tickets sold for the $12K price which ended up in the headlines, but the standard price was a fraction of that. There's a good summary of this discrepancy here: https://youtu.be/UBPg5ftCMv8
  
  completely agree with this take, also OP screams american excepcionalism.
- Wouldn’t every event or festival be an exercise in waste and excess? May be e we should just stay at home forever and work
  
  I’ve heard smaller, local burns are better experiences now and are less wasteful. Just like most things, the original spirit and intent of an event gets lost when it becomes bigger and commercialized.
  
  Well it being in the middle of a desert makes it more wasteful.
  But yes giant festivals that encourage a lot of travel and needlessly burning things are in general wasteful and potentially excessive. There are other leisure activities, so discouraging festivals is not equivalent to working nonstop.
- small local burns are more true to form in that endeavor. people clean up after themselves and are generally respectful.
  some bad actors, but it's a nice disconnect from technology.
  I like to go and host a alternate dimension themed arcade with silly obscure games.
  
  Ooh, what games? Where?

Burning Man 'promotes' anti-consumerism and communal effort, however attending requires significant financial resources and costs that can and do exclude (most) people, it's living hyprocracy, and an excellent example of capitalism corrupting grass roots ideals. honestly is an absolute joke of a festival.
- There is a similar thing not far from where I live. Through an unlucky friend, then the neighbour of their festival grounds, I got to discover the organizers' 'ideals' and 'ethical and ecological approach' first hand. In short: it was about money. And more money. And they managed to turn a large reservoir into a dying punch bowl of acid, piss and shit within only a decade. I suspect Burning Man to be the same, considering the ticket prices. The fact that some poor fools with their heart and soul intact save their little money to visit this monstrosity just makes it more sad.
  I don't actively engage in Schadenfreude much, but I do carry a little of it in my heart. If people think flying or driving very far away for Entertainment, and bringing thousands of people into an otherwise quiet place is okay for the wildlife there, and can be in any way an ecological thing, they have understood very little about ecology. And now also ignored by most: the destruction that happens by the thousands of 'poor humans who just wanted to have fun' trampling through the last remnants of life in a drought stricken place.
  We are not alone on this planet. Invading a place with our idea of fun is very damaging. We can party perfectly well at home. If home happens to be bleak and sad maybe we should work on that first before invading quiet places.
  
  Just as a counterpoint, the area burning man is held in is one of the most ecologically inert places you could go. There's no vegetation and the only life to speak of is brine shrimp eggs, which are about as threatened as mosquito larvae.
  There's still a lot of trash that gets left behind which can travel with wind, but as far as impact on the land goes, it's likely significantly less invasive than your local county fair. There's just nothing out there for them to damage.
- No it doesn't. Poor as dirt and go almost every year. So many idiots in this thread have no idea what they're talking about. Just parroting the media.
  
  And yet you spend like Bilbo Baggins?
  
  What if I told you you could be less poor than dirt if you didn't buy overpriced festival tickets?
- It's like $400 for a ticket, and then the rest of the cost is getting there, food, water, shelter, etc. You can pay as little or as much as you want to accomplish those things. Plenty of people drive there and stayed in tents. I don't see how it's any different than camping for a few days.
  
  Because I can go camp somewhere for less than $100?
  
  check again it was up to $575 this year
  Ive never been to burning man. I went to Coachella a LLOOONNGG time ago when it was hippies rolling around in the dust. Coachella ain't that anymore, it's instagram rich kids and tech bros. I assume the same thing has happened to burning man.

Some of the worst people I've worked with are "burners".
There's apparently a private jet at burning man this year that was taking off and landing constantly so that people could fuck on the jet - it's fall of Rome style excess in a broken world where most people's basic needs are not met on an enormous scale.
Your statement is fairly tone deaf to the basic objective reality of the "party", OP. The frustrated people at the bottom are feeling a bit of catharsis in the money burning factory closing for a day while they starve and watch.
- So like "let's fly on private jets to a nice swiss resort to discuss climate change"
- So you think it's okay to laugh at people dying?
  
  Burners by and large are dipshits, but no one reasonable is laughing at anyone dying.
  
  Hot take: fundamentally, yes. The simple fact that people are dying does not render something unfunny.
  That said, no one has died yet (well, one person, but that was ruled unrelated to the flooding).
  
  Did you miss all the memes about the billionaire dying in the submarine a couple months back? People like laughing at dark humor.
  
  Generally no, but this episode of tough hippie mudder has been great.
  
  If someone falls asleep inside the giant puppet and they burn him alive with everyone gathered around, I'm sorry but that's just very funny. Dark, but funny.
  
  Why wouldn't it be?

aside from the obvious "rich people exploiting the environment with their hippy party that costs $200 for their cheapest tickets," I saw a video online that brought up a good point that I never considered. The cost of lumber has increased exponentially in the past 3 years alone, jumping to nearly $1700 per 1000 feet at its peak in 2021, but staying between $400 and $600 per 1000 feet in recent months (still high compared to say 10 years ago.) And these people are buying tens of thousands of feet of lumber solely to burn it away in the middle of nowhere where there's little vegetation to absorb the excess CO2 waste. That, along with the climate change protesters being police brutalized just before the event, really puts a sour taste in people's mouths. Especially in a time where "once in a lifetime" weather events seem to be back-to-back.
economic data from: https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lumber
- Tickets cost about 10x that. I was interested back when it was a cool art exchange, freedom event. But SO many people flock to it as a giant party that it's become restrictive unless your volunteering or bringing an exhibit.
  
  From old burners I have talked to, the entire experience has completely changed. Alcohol used to be frowned upon, now it's common place.
- Sincerely with rocket launches now being a daily thing i'm not very worried by that burning lumber.
  
  Rockets mostly use hydrogen as fuel, burning wood is way more polluting than burning hydrogren.
- Also John Wilson tried to go shoot at the event and after compiling hours of footage was told that he couldn't use any of it because there was some exclusive licensed coverage provider for the event.
- And these people are buying tens of thousands of feet of lumber solely to burn it away in the middle of nowhere where there's little vegetation to absorb the excess CO2 waste.
  That's not really how plants work.
  Photosynthesis turns co2 + water into sugar + oxygen. Cellular respiration turns sugar + oxygen into co2 + water.
  The total co2 absorbed by a plant is exactly equal to the amount of co2 used to make all the sugar, cellulose, etc. the plant currently has. Digestion, decomposition, fires etc. undo that.
  A mature forest or lawn is carbon neutral: new growth is balanced out by decomposition of old growth.
  Distance to plants doesn't matter. What matters is if and how the trees they're burning are being replanted or replaced. .
  
  Thanks for the correction. That helps me better understand how counteracting pollution works
- Yesterday in the US it was labour day, 100 of millions of Americans has a BBQ many using coal and wood the impact of burning man is insignificant in comparison
- Burning wood just releases the co2 absorbed when growing it.
  
  What are fossil fuels other than captured carbon from plants and animals from long ago?
  Rereleasing carbon is the problem now. Wood being sustainable needs a non-surplus in carbon emissions to begin with.

Burning Man may be the epitome of the many optimistic and maybe naive qualities of the 90s that were co-opted and exploited in the early 2000s, and turned into the very things they were built to protest against - another being the free and open internet
- Yes. I watched it happen. The large number of people that go now pay thousands $$ for a plug-n-play camp and don't contribute their own art (if they even have art). They are not what the festival once stood for.
- Hot take
  
  You know what isnt a hot take? Think how much pollution the event generated, how much greenhouse gases.
  Seems worth it for a party lol.

Because it's a festival in the middle of the fucking desert. It's an utterly ridiculous place to have it and totally extravagant.
They'll go there claiming there to be going I to some kind of getting away from civilisation, hippie commune thing but the amount of effort and infrastructure to make that environment survivable is ridiculous they actually doing more damage to the environment by being there than if they just stayed in the city.
No one's glad someone died but their death has nothing to do with the ultimate problem of them all being there, and without being too macabre, people die music festivals all of the time, usually because of drugs. Most music festivals are held in a field, where it's at least reasonably possible to have basic infrastructure without huge expenses of money and effort.

I’ve been to burning man. I sit a little bit on both sides of the fence having not felt like I totally fit in there when I went, but also understanding the original mindset behind it.
At this point, I feel the backlash against Burning Man generally is a bit overblown. These folks are at a festival (yeah burners, I called it a festival because that’s the word we use for such things in the English language) and they’re having a good time. Who cares. Most folks who go have good intentions and just want to connect and share something. Many artists work for years and months, for free, to have their pieces featured. Some of that art is incredible! My favorite parts though were literally just an astronomy camp where I looked through a pretty big telescope, held some billion year old meteor fragments in my hand, and listened to hours of lectures from science nerds about the cosmos. I also watched a magic show and got fed bacon by some drunk guy at his camp at 7 am who just wanted company. I personally havent drank at burning man, but it is a party. There are all manner of things at burning man, anything you might want and some things you might not… from talks on how to build a sustainable green energy house to orgy tents to camps offering free ice cream and French toast.
On the other hand, burners can take this shit a bit too seriously and get wrapped up in the experience to the point of being annoying. One guy in my camp scolded me for asking too much about his normal life. He was a tech worker and apparently wanted to pretend that he wasn’t when he was at burning man. How ridiculous to think standing in the desert should mean you can’t talk about your actual life. Another time I pulled out my camera (aka phone) to take a photo of some art and some random chick yelled at me to put my phone away. As if we all bought DSLRs and Polaroids for this event because it’s more authentic that way, and as if the folks that did totally aren’t going to go home and put it on Instagram anyway. There were plenty of women just posing on the playa for their photographer “friends.” I doubt they all just put them in a family photo album for the memories.
That said, Burning Man is a unique event and most folks are just trying to share and view some of the most unique art in the world and connect with others. At my age, I generally find most festivals annoying and burning man has plenty of people to be annoyed at, but it is what it is and frankly I don’t know that it deserves more hate than something like Bonaroo or Coachella. At least Burning Man is full of folks trying to be more than mere passive consumers of entertainment. The mandate is for you to be a participant. God forbid you attend an event where you’re asked to do more than consume, but rather give, anything you want or feel others could benefit from.
If there were 10 other events like burning man, I’d say we should look for the best one, but it is the only event like this. That said, as time goes on, it needs to change. Burning the art has to stop, for instance. Also, some of the more snobbish cultural aspects of the event could die off and I wouldn’t cry.
Not sure I’ll ever go back, but its mostly because I’m too old for this shit and seriously get off my lawn. But, I got the idea and, I won’t hate on others who feel drawn to it, unless they’re insufferable.
- Well put. I've been twice, 25 years ago and 8 years ago. Some aspects are really cool. Burners can also be insufferable, especially when they make it their entire identity IMO. I will never go back either. Also too old for that shit.
  
  Yeah my SOs mom took us and still goes. We aren't wealthy and usually get discounts. His mom saves up every year for it. The only thing about it I don't like is how dirty it is and how hot otherwise it's really fun and I don't do drugs or alcohol. Fire shooting giant metal flowerbeds and moving castles.
- Thanks for your comment, I appreciate it
- Aren't there smaller burning man festivals?
  
  There are many copycats and smaller local versions of the same idea. The idea that it's the most unique event in the world is marketing BS form the organizers.
  
  there's definitely a few different ones in Oregon.

Most people don’t even think about burning man at all.
And well, the people of the internet tend to be less fond of more wealthy people, like those that can afford to spend thousands to party in the desert. I may not want them to die just because they went to burning man, but I will laugh at the world essentially raining on their parade.
- I don’t get it but ok.
  
  I dislike stupid shit that wealthy people do. People generally also do not sympathize with a nameless faceless entity. "70k people" is not something I can personally relate to. (As opposed to headlines like "kid with cancer" that normally gets sympathy.)
  Additionally, there was all the warning signs this festival was going to be a disaster and people spent thousands of dollars on tickets anyway. Much like the submarine these people have to have someone come help them, which yet again, takes for the form of state resources. Once again, the American taxpayer is footing the bill helping save rich people of all ages from their own hubris.
  
  you dont get why people would not be fans of people that exploit other people and the capitalist system to hoard resources that they then waste in rich people gatherings while normal people arent paying rent?
  really?you dont get it?

A lot of the time, people hear about Burning Man in the context of which privileged asshole grifter attended it. Elizabeth Holmes, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, etc other billionaires or influencers... And it is described as "tech bros' favorite party" in the media.
So, given that impression of it, I can see how the default reaction to it failing is unsympathetic.
- All these people making piles of assumptions that if Elon Musk went once, everyone there must be a rich piece of shit, just makes me want to go even more just to spite them.
  I know there's a lot I don't know about it, but what I do know is that for most who go it's about art and being free to express themselves. Really strange how much hate people have for something they likely haven't the first goddamned clue about
- So strange to me. I have never been but the people I have met who have gone multiple times and loved it have made me think it’s a force for good.
  My first exposure was a wedding I DJ’d, most of the people there were friends of the bride and groom from burning man and they are burned (ha) in my memory as the type of people who go. Even the “pastor” who performed the ceremony. Bride is a travel writer, husband is a doctor. All of the bridal party. Extremely intelligent, kind, funny humble humans all. I played EDM music. Best wedding I ever did.
  
  I think a lot of people who dislike burning man are envious of the glamour and money being flaunted there. Lots of beautiful people, nudity, drugs, money, and partying.
  Which I can definitely understand. A lot of people would love to be able to just drop what they're doing and go walk around a desert playing at steampunk dress-up.

Well far be it from me to judge anyone at a music festival but I think for many burning man has some bourgeoisie, fake hippie sorta connotations?
- Yep, exactly my confusion…this makes it ok to take joy at what happened? I think the perception is wrong but even if not…it’s fucked up.
  
  When leftists say eat the rich they don't mean it in a nice way.
  
  I think - correctly or incorrectly - a lot of people perceive the typical Burning Man attendee nowadays as being a rich and/or famous person who is somewhere between indifferent to + amused by the suffering of other people less fortunate than they. And - again, not saying this is correct - they perceive this as being more of an annoying/inconvenient/uncomfortable thing (lots of wallowing in filth, but only 1 death AFAIK) than a bona fide natural disaster; totally different order of magnitude from what just happened in Florida, for example, or Hawaii.
  So it's less serious than a hurricane or flood or whatever in a populated area, and affects much more deserving people; if, heaven forbid, a bomb went off and hundreds of Burning Man attendees died it would be a very different story, and certainly in that case I don't think any decent person would laugh about it, but a bunch of rich assholes stuck in the mud playing "Survivor" for a week is much more farce than tragedy.

- Rain at a festival isn’t.
  That's pretty much stripping all relevant context from the situation. The rains are absolutely a big deal for a special campout-celebration that's held in a fairly hostile natural location, with ground that becomes disastrous in terms of movement when there's heavy rain.
  It would be one thing if BM was just a frivolous celebration, but it's heavily art-oriented, creative in nature, and meaningful for a whole bunch of folks who are trying to engage in something special once a year. So it's not The Holocaust, no, but more than just the loss of the festival, there's still some real danger going on for hundreds of folks right now.
  
  BM
  I approve of this abbreviation.
  
  I know old burners, none of them went this year, nor the last few years. They have other smaller events they go to now that retains the old feel of Burning Man. It is very much frivolous now.
  
  When you camp on a lakebed, you’re going to be camping in a lake sometimes.
  
  Brother, Burning Man is an excuse for a bunch of people to do a fuckton of drugs out in the middle of the desert.
  Burning Man has never been anything other than a monument to excess. It is, if anything, a poignant statement regarding humanity.
  Am I happy people are struggling? No. But I'd be lying if I didn't think they deserve it. Maybe the survivors will spend their free time better. Probably not, it'll just end up meaning poor people are allowed less and less in coming years.
  
  Fine, but calling it a tragedy takes away from actual tragedies.
- These solid human beings with strong morals, financially responsible with a career, upstanding members of society having their day ruined is not a tragedy? 😫

I actually think a lot is the opposite. If you think an event like this, attended by the likes of Bezos and Musk, is countercultural, or even “brings positivity into the world”, I have a beautiful bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Of course most Burners have jobs, it’s a techbro’s dream. Plus, tickets are more expensive than they were in the old days, so real hippies can’t go. If people want to laugh at the suffering of rich people who cosplay as revolutionary, I’m generally ok with that. One big caveat: I’m very sorry someone died, and I don’t think mocking that’s cool, especially if we don’t know anything about them.
- The richest people on earth attending doesn't actually mean a single goddamned thing about it. Other than they want to be seen as "cool"...
  
  Well, I guess we strongly disagree.

It’s just a playground for the riche to do a music and drug festival pretend poor style. Or maybe it has something to do with a bunch of those hippies that nearly killed climate protestors blocking the road on their way in.
Every Burner I’ve ever met has been one of the most entitled, out of touch, morons I’ve ever had the displeasure of talking to. Let’s see where their “radical self reliance” gets them now.
- I guess I grew up some next level poor, the only person I’ve known that went to burning man was the son of the owner at a place I worked. He wasn’t that entitled and moronic.
  
  The CEO of one of my companies clients goes there and he's an awful awful person.
  Completely unprompted he once said that he was a liberal, but he had to vote conservative because the poorer people in society need the conservatives. So he wasn't even prepared to actually own being an asshole.
  And then he goes to a place like that and claims he's going back to nature or some shit, all so he can morally self-justified having a stick up his arse the rest of the time.
  
  I was unemployed both times I went lol. Do people not know about low income discounts?

Fuck these rich twats
- Apparently middle class Americans are now "rich twats"?
  
  It's mostly rich twats with a few upper middle class twats.
  
  middle class Americans.
  Not a thing
  
  Something 'middle class' Americans may want to notice:
  When people are living in abject poverty, you are comparatively 'rich'.
  Anger at the 'rich' is at an all time high.
  The 'true rich' are out of reach of the poor.
  As income inequality grows, this will get worse.

i dont care what happens to rich people
- Most of them aren’t rich. They’re middle class. The only reason you think most of them are rich is because of how a lot of the middle class has fallen into poverty. Don’t tear down the people that are still truly middle class.
  The truly wealthy are a problem, but they’re a minority at burning man.
  
  It's all relative. If the poor have gotten poorer, then the "almost rich", just by virtue of hanging on to their wealth, have edged up into "rich" territory
  
  If you're spending upwards of $1000 on a few days you're probably rich.
  
  Well, how do you define middle class? Is there a certain income bracket that needs to be met? Or is it the middle slice of 3 equally sliced segments of the US population?
- Your blatant classism and lack of normal empathy aside, can you provide evidence that most people at burning man are "rich"?
  
  Because it's a festival in the middle of the desert that's celebrating being in the middle of the fucking desert.
  In high school I remember some of us were actually very taken with the concept, including myself. But as time progressed, it became obvious that it wasn't about connecting with nature and self reliance.

I got shit for this in another thread, but I will stand by it- you do not go into the desert without checking the weather report, and if it says rain, light rain, heavy rain, sprinkles, doesn't matter, you do not go into the desert. These people did not do the most basic bit of safety you could do.
- Ok and people rebuild their homes in flood zones, it’s not the criticism that bothers me but when people take joy in it. The posts I’ve seen are just cheap.
  
  Rebuilding a home in a flood zone is a little different. That's a permanent situation people decide not to change for infrequent floods. Some people might not have the means to uproot their lives to get out of a flood zone. This current situation is a temporary choice for fun. If you do something that involves being outside, understanding the weather is necessary.
  By the same token, would you criticize the organizers for holding the festival in a place that can flood, even if in years past it didn't?
  
  I agree, I don't take joy in it. I just don't have much sympathy for them.

I'm just surprised at the sheer stupidity of those people. There have been pictures on the net, showing the festival area completely submerged just a few days before the start. Yet, they still moved there.
At that point, when they noticed that the mud was knee deep, they could have left. They decided to stay.
Now there is an emergency involving 70k idiots who put themselves wilfully in a dangerous place without thinking.

Bunch of people here are talking about who goes to burning man. So just to be a bit objective, here's a burning man census they've been doing for the past decade
https://blackrockcitycensus.org/
- Census data does kinda prove the healthy wealth gap between attendees and the average American
- So it seems like just since 2015 the amount of people making over $100,000 has literally doubled and people who are poorer having the sharpest decline in attendance. Just shy of half of attendees in 2021 where making over 6 figures and that has likely grown...
  Yeah I don't care what happens to the rich people cause they will find their way out and have a ghost writer write a book for them about their experience that will be a top seller before they even release it. The world has become a playground for the rich.
  
  That census just confirms the stereotype of the average burner being the most annoying person ever. Overwhelmingly non-religious but also overwhelmingly 'spiritual'.
  The second largest political group behind democrats (~50%) are non-politicals (only double digit percentage), aka people who are disinterested in politics cause it doesn't affect them, so they don't care (let's be real cause they are overwhelmingly rich, college-educated, white, cis, and straight).
  It's definitely the group easiest to judge negatively, and being stuck at burning man is likely the greatest challenge they've encountered in their life and the cherry on top is that they've paid thousands for it.
  
  TIL if you make enough to save a bit of money in a medium size city, you're rich scum, morally equivalent to people who make 1,000,000 your salary and give none of it to charity.

You’re not traveling in the wrong circles. Come to a VC fund dinner in September where junior VCs and 28-year-old “mortgage disrupter” CEOs brag about the air-conditioned plug-and-play camps they spent tens of thousands on, and play wink-wink with each other about all of the fun they had.
I’m a multiple-time BM vet, but it’s mostly an expensive, bureaucratized drug party for tourists now.
It’s perfectly fine to goof on it as it sinks into a physical and moral quagmire. Forgive a poorly scaled analogy, but your logic is the NRA’s logic when there’s a mass shooting: “Now, when everyone’s attention is focused, is not the time to highlight the underlying issues.”
- No one hates the luxury plug-n-play campers more than other burners. And the org has even taken steps to crack down on them.
  But the only thing older than non-burners hating on burners is burners saying “it was cooler back in the times when I went. It sucks now.”
  What years were you there?

This thread is wild. I suspect most of you who seem completely positive you're right to judge thousands of people and what they deserve would be very indignant and angry if someone lumped you in with a category of people you somehow are tangentially related to.
It's kind of depressing. I thought Lemmy wasn't a wasteland of humanity like reddit was, but if I was only going by this thread I'd have to conclude it definitely is not a damned bit better than reddit.
- I completely agree with you, although:
  I thought Lemmy wasn't a wasteland of humanity like reddit was
  Never had any hope for that. Humanity is what it is, shitty folks are everywhere, it's statistics.
  
  Yeah shitty people are definitely everywhere, but I've had a lot of interactions that indicate the ratio is much better here than other online communities.
  This thread kinda shattered that feeling. I don't think most people being huge assholes about this know anything except that they hate rich people. Rich people? Anyone with more money than them. They don't care if you have $1000 more in your bank account or $1000000000 more than they have. Apparently anyone "rich"-er is all the same person
  
  I’m doing my part!
  
  I had a nice couple of weeks here before the reddit really started to seep in.
- I mean, reddit came on over here, didn't it.
  
  Yeah. I was just hoping some of the assholes didn't come as well.
- Hmm... White people privilege is funny. If you don't see that... Well that just illustrates the joke

People are children and repeat what they hear. 15 years ago, I would spout the same nonsense about burning man because of what I read on digg/Reddit from the same voices you hear now. I then met a friend who convinced me to go and I had an absolute blast.
For the vast majority of people in the US, let alone the world, attending the event is almost impossible due to cost, time, materials, etc. - it’s much easier for people that live nearby and most people within driving distance, the views of burning man will be more in line with your views - nuanced and reasonable. If you have no experience and no contact with the regular folks who attend, it’s super easy to bucket people into all these groups.
The reasoning about waste and frivolity is total bullshit — don’t tel me your bullshit vacation to Murtle Beach is anymore eco friendly. Or your plane ride to Bangkok to become more worldly is “green”. Burning man is an event, a vacation. I went many times as a student, spending only about $2000 all in. It’s a relatively economical way to have a blast for a week.
- Well that’s the thing though isn’t it? Nobody’s saying their Bangkok or Myrtle Beach vacay is eco anything, nor are they vaunting some ethos, sustainability, life altering experimental way to live, Drugs, costumes, art, sex, whatever…an unattainable experience for the vast majority people.
  You might see a selfie in Myrtle beach with a drink or a pic in front of Wat Pho.
  If you’re gonna engage in appeals to hypocrisy, maybe you should try to find actual hypocrisy.
  
  See, though, this is the ignorance that stems from not knowing real life burners. The vast majority (actually none) that I know do not claim anything eco about the event. These people understand what the event is. Don’t lump every one of the 100s of thousands of those who have attended over the years with the handful of social media starlets posting bullshit online. I promise many many people at burning man hate those who post anything about the event on social media.
- It's basically this IMO
  
  People are free to do what they want. It's this self assured BS they use to justify doing drugs in the desert that the majority of the criticism comes from.
  Had a close friend who became a burner. She compared her fund raising for a party to my wife's political organizing. I can't even wrap my head around how self delusional it is.

Holy crap, I just checked the actual numbers and their mortality rate is lower than the average in the population, they're doing fine
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db456.htm#:~:text=Age%2Dspecific%20rates%20increased%2010.1,44%20(248.0%20to%20287.9).
- So as long as Event Organisers stay below the average mortality rate, they hold no liability? They are doing fine?
  
  OP: One person died! It's a tragedy!
  Turns out that's a better mortality rate than outside the event, not much of a tragedy, more of them would have died if they hadn't went to the event!

strong morals, personally and financially responsible, a career. Upstanding members of society for sure.
These are extremely generic platitudes that could apply to just about anyone.
Which morals specifically?
What's your definition of "financially responsible"? Because that's frequently a watered down way of saying "well-off" while trying to attribute it their character and not their situation.
"Upstanding member of society" is outright meaningless without context. That's an argument you hear from the defense in criminal trial.
So why are we supposed to take these hypothetical friends as evidence of anything?
- Not to mention… at least for me… I don’t really think of it as a drug ridden orgy… more of an instagram hotspot.
  In any case… it’s not like they can’t get people out if they really need to. Or food and supplies in. Worst case? The event people helicopter water and food and they spend a few extra days getting tench foot.

Strong MORALS?!?!?

it's just an us based festival, why do you make it sound as if its a larger than life event.

- And the loudest participants outside the burn are tech bros and influencers.
- He says unironically.
- This but all the people shitting on burning man

Entirely ignoring who is at burning man or why, I honestly think there needs to be a line somewhere for sympathy. If you truck yourself out into the desert and things go tits up, well, shit happens. That's the risk you took.
I say this as a person who used to ride motorcycles, rock climb, and go backpacking. If shit ever went down I wouldn't have expected any sympathy. I put myself in those risky situations, and there's just plain gotta be a line for personal responsibility.
With all that being said, when such a massive group of people continuely take the same risk over and over, it's kinda funny when they finally get bit. It's the same reason COVID denires getting COVID is funny.
- You’re right. Also burners want no sympathy. Self sufficiency is a core value and an expectation of all attendees. People fail at it and other burners hate them for it. No one there is asking for anyone’s sympathy.
- I appreciate your honesty but this sort of boggles my mind…like well they were asking for it. Ok then.
  
  When people have no power to improve their lives, and some of the people who do have that power suffer, a little schadenfreude is natural. Only the death gives me pause, personally.
  
  Overly inflated ego and sense of self-importance narcissism dude. They have no sympathy for anybody but themselves.

It used to be about spirituality and the rest including hard drugs, alcohol, and social media bringing in that crowd has ruined it permanently.

A person died. This is a tragedy for an event that brings positivity into the world. Kind of annoyed.
They could take all the money it costs them and bring a whole lot more positivity into the world but instead choose sex drugs and rock'n'roll in the middle of the desert. If you want to see tragedies these people could prevent just go spend some time in the poorest parts of the city you live in.
- By your logic, if you're a good person but you spend your disposable income on a form of recreation that inefficiently brings positivity to the world, you deserve to be ridiculed and your suffering is justly celebrated.
  
  So you truly believe that all the resources they're wasting vs the fun they have as a group is a net positive to the world? I hope this year's fuck up is enough to shut down the event for the foreseeable future and I won't shed a single tear or have any pity for any of them that gets hurt because of their ridiculous recreation.
- Would a resort in the Virgin Islands be more respectable? Sorry their vacation doesn't look like yours.
  
  Just pointing out that saying they bring positivity in the world is a load of BS as the resource wasted alone means their overall impact is negative to the world.
- Reminds me of the hippy drum circle episode of south park where they all get stoned and listen to jam bands and declare they are changing the world.

Maybe also because there were protesters blockading the road towards it because of climate change and festival goers were furious about it, so this is kinda ironic

The only people who go to that dumb crap in the first place are wealthy whites, the poor and working class don't have all the money and time in the world to spend $1000's of dollars on hard drugs and time off work and traveling half way across the country to attend some "hippy" festival that hasn't actually had hippies at it since the 12th Century BC
- That's why I'm happy when people aren't able to make it to Cons and Ren Fairs. Bunch of losers with more money than me spending on things I don't care about.
  How dare they. I hope anyone who spends money to have fun has a bad time instead.
  
  In defense of Ren fairs, the best part of them is the camping, and that's as cheap as you want it to be.
- There are certainly weathly people who go, but there are also poor people who work multiple jobs and save up for a year to go as well.

More just schadenfreude, I expect, since Burning Man has long seemed dumb and idiotic to many. So something dumb and idiotic like this happening to them feels appropriate.
- Yes… I guess I am used to finding places on the internet that value nuance. There is no nuance to that perception. I guess there isn’t much when it comes to burning man. Hippies are dumb, rich hippies are dumber, so bad things happening to them is hilarious.
  
  I love poor hippies. I hate when rich people pretend to be something they’re not and expect us to play along.
  
  I’ve never liked that at all.
  I’m not exactly rich, but compared to some starving people in third-world countries yes I am.
  I hate to think that because I have it worlds better than them by an accident of birth, I must be stupid and deserve every bad thing that happened to me. After all, I’m just an overprivileged first-worlder, therefore I purposely tried to step on everyone to get my way. Because you suffered in ways that I never have, I must suffer like that and you get to laugh at the “rich person” flailing and generally being miserable. I wasn’t born into poverty, therefore if I experience misfortune I clearly deserve it somehow. If I happen to catch cancer, well, everyone dies someday, should have gotten used to the concept of unexpectedly dying by disease like us real folk, cry harder you privileged bitch, nobody cares and nobody should. That’s just what you get for being out of touch with how real people live. Should have been prepared for that.
  This is why I stick to /sub. To avoid this kind of post. And I somehow find these posts anyway (didn’t even seek out stuff outside of /sub, not sure how I landed here, going to find out how it happened so it won’t happen again) and get angry.
  Lovely outrage bait. Never change, internet.

Everyone I’ve ever met who was a regular burning man attendee has been a solid human being with strong morals, personally and financially responsible, a career.
I think of two people in my past when I think of Burning Man.
One being my ex who got in trouble for punching his ex girlfriend AT burning man. He had to go to court and she got a restraining order against him. There were also witnesses and he almost got kicked out of school for it. He should have been kicked out of school in my opinion.
Anyway. Him and his friends were super trashy. All people who went to Burning Man.
Then there is this girl I use to work with. She was nice. She was extremely pretty. 10/10 instagram model type, not even exaggerated. She was also super late to everything. I waited two hours for her and her friend to meet up at a cafe. That was the last time we hung out. She really came off as someone who gets away with shit just because she's considered hot.

Because we live in a society devoid of empathy.

Fuck your burn!
It’s not a tragedy, it’s life on the playa. Every participant knows this. The back of the ticket states that you could die out there. Part of it is survival. Radical self reliance.
These aren’t opinions, these are facts. Radical self reliance is one of the 10 principals of burning man.
- Thanks for the information
  
  Anytime! I should also clarify, “fuck your burn” means what it sounds like, but it’s also a pretty common thing to hear at the event. That’s not because everyone’s sarcastic or everyone’s mean. It’s that everyone’s everyone and that means what it means.
  I’ll say that when it rains at the event it is a magical experience. Imagine that you’ve been in the desert for days, you’re dusty as hell and tired, hot, dirty. You long for a shower or running water maybe.. and all of the sudden, you get a fine mist or a little bit of rain and you hear people start making noise and dancing in the rain.
  This much water is obviously different, but there’s this sense of being in this predicament together and the community itself is built on giving, so likely others are helping where they can. In the absolute worst case scenarios, they can air lift people out of the event to a hospital in reno. I think for the most part this is just a big story for people to tell.
  Also, sorry I just read that someone died at the event. Sadly this happens sometimes, for various reasons. I’ll say that during the big burn, there’s a group of volunteers who’s job it is to surround the fire, facing the crowd and physically take down anyone who runs toward the fire in an attempt to end their life.

@mysoulishome@lemmy.world YMMV. 90% of the people I’ve met who have gone to BM are jerks 🤷‍♂️

Hating burners is a perpetual pastime. I’ve never understood it. If you don’t want to go, don’t go. Folks form their own weird ideas about what Burning Man “means” and then bat down that straw man with misperceptions about what actually happens there. If you’ve never been: just STFU.
As a many time attendee, I’m concerned for the safety of everyone out there.
However I am also hoping that this might help lead to smaller events in the future. When I began attending, it was 12-15k people. It grew over time until it was 50k people and that really felt too big. Crazy crowds. Unsafe density of people whizzing around by night. And a greater feeling of anonymity / being able to disappear into the crowd definitely led to more irresponsible and shifty behavior by some. Once upon a time it was considered really bad behavior to just stop and piss on the ground but as the festival grew things like that became commonplace and fighting back against them was futile.
Now the festival is 70k people and I’ve stayed away for years over that. It would be great to get it under 50k again. I keep hearing about things like a full day wait during exodus and thinking maybe this will finally cause fewer people to return but it keeps not working. This probably won’t help either.

Lemmy has inherited some of the best parts of reddit... and the worst.
- This place turned more negative than reddit fast

I found it funny in so far as just the other day, some of those burning man goers were blocked on the road in by climate protestors. The fact it rained and they are stuck there again, due to the climate, is pretty god damn hilarious.

Remember Burning Man 2020-2022 when shit happened?
Remember Fyre festival?
How many times do people have to learn that going out into the middle of nowhere, shit is going to happen?

These people could have checked a weather forecast and had a lot of advance warning to GTFO. If you go out to the desert without doing anything to ensure your safety, it is mostly your fault if you get screwed. Same reason it's funny when antivaxxers get measles and when COVID deniers get COVID. Of course it is still sad and the people responsible for spreading those theories should be punished, but it is sort of funny.

Because they love the smell of their own farts?

tragedy
Is anyone dead?
Edit:
The Pershing County Sheriff’s Office said a death happened during the event but offered few details as the investigation continued, including the identity of the deceased person or the suspected cause of death.
On their website, organizers encouraged participants to remain calm and suggest that the festival is built to endure conditions like the flooding.
[...]
Those who remained Sunday described a resilient community making the most of the muddy conditions that have made it difficult to walk or even bike around Burning Man. Many posted selfies of themselves covered in mud, dancing or splashing in the makeshift lakes.
“Honestly, we’re having a great time,” Theresa Galeani, who is at Burning Man and expected to be there for the rest of the week.
“We have not witnessed any negativity, any rough times,” she said. “Some people … were supposed to leave a few days ago so they’re out of water or food. But I am an organizer so I went around and found more water and food. There is more than enough here for people. We just have to get it to everyone.”
https://apnews.com/article/burning-man-festival-flooding-entrance-closed-d6cd88ee009c6e1f6d2d92739ec1ca18
- Yes
  
  They are investigating a possible death. You're out here making it sound like people are suffering. By all accounts, spirits remain high.
  https://apnews.com/article/burning-man-festival-flooding-entrance-closed-d6cd88ee009c6e1f6d2d92739ec1ca18

I'm just appalled at these comments!
Why does it matter what the festival represents or not?
Why does it matter if you stamd for or against it?
There was a flood, people got hurt, someone even died.
And people are laughing at it?
And ridiculing it‽
Where is the respect?
- We are just here to show how good and smart we are and how bad and dumb everyone else is

there is a regional burn they have every year in my state, i went for like 6 years straight in the 2010s .. my fav part was walking around nekkid lol. i also participated in the fire performance ceremony before the burn. but then they modified the rules to allow children to attend and i haven't gone since. :<
it only cost $30 and was a great fun and awesome time, as long as you took care of your MOOP!!!! (and stay hydrated!)
the big burning man festival from what i understand lost the true spirit a long ass time ago.
- Interesting. What is moop?

Theres a book/movie that explains this pretty well...It's called "How the Grinch Stole Christmas". Online most people are like the Grinch and they believe others are silly/stupid/wrong or immoral for doing fun things. Seeing them suffer instinctively sounds good.
They are likely to be super surprised when the burners return and talk about how it changed their life...After all the best burns are when shit goes sideways.

Because they’ve never been.

I love these posts. Yes everyone on the internet has a short, pithy take. Yes it looks cool to have no empathy.
Obviously everyone has their reasons, but why are we shocked that someone somewhere said something online that seems heartless or at odds with our version of the world?
And then when everyone explains that the event has a stereotype and there is a reason for that stereotype, and OP explains that, well, plenty of nice people participate in that activity, why would strangers on the internet shit on the nice ones too? And it's like, yeah, this is what the internet does. Things get 2-dimensional.
🙄
- That’s about right and I think we should do better.
  
  The internet could use more empathy, I suppose. Part of navigating it, unfortunately, it understanding that shortcoming.

- I don't think that's the flex you think it is.

Boomers and authoritarian fascists don't like to see people enjoying themselves, so watching people at a festival of joy, equality and happiness suffer is basically their favourite thing to do.

It just rich boomers. I've never met anyone under 50 who talked about burning man.
- i'm not one to defend burning man, and there have been a lot of billionaires there for years, but you are mistaken about the age demographics:
  via https://blackrockcitycensus.org/
  (I used to think I would go one day but i realized over a decade ago that i was no longer tempted to...)
  
  There is a really adorable contingent of old people there. One of their camps is called "The Shack of Sit. They provide a shack.. where you can go and sit. They also do the "little black dress parade" where all these 65+ men and women wear short and sexy black dresses and play marching band instruments on their way around promenade. It's so sweet.
- Did we just collectively decide that gen X are now boomers? Or are we just going to perpetually call everyone over 50 a boomer?
  
  Yeah everyone over 50 is a boomer now
- what an idiot. your misuse of the term boomer indicates you're probably around 15.

You pretty much got it, there are marginalized parts of society you're allowed to berate, and people who want to feel better about themselves make fun of the groups they are allowed to when they are allowed to.
- Are you claiming tech bros are a marginalized part of society?!
  
  Are you claiming every attendee at burning Man is a tech bro and that people are specifically only making fun of tech bros?
- Oh yeah. The poor, marginalized Burner community…🙄
  Ffs.
  
  Nobody said they were poor. Marginalized? You're proving it with your comment.
  Appreciated.
- Yeah I guess hipsters are still fine to laugh at, even when they drown, because driving to the desert to blow of some steam is frivolous. I’m disappointed.
  
  Who drowned?

Rich fuck yuppies deserve every iota of suffering that can be visited upon them, up to and surpassing death.
- Wow.
- 100%
- I was gunna customize one special for you. But just like your life, it's not worth the effort.

Because people on the internet are miserable and disgusting creatures who hate their lives and literally anyone doing better them. So they celebrate their tragedy to get a sick sense of self satisfaction
- "miserable and disgusting creatures who hate their lives" describes the majority of the Human Race.
  
  🤣 have a little bit of hope though lol
- Can you really blame them? I can't.
  The fact is that we are living in societies with an increasing wealth gap between the richest and the poorest people. While the rich can afford basically anything, including to fuck around in death trap submarines at the bottom of the sea or peyote orgies in the desert, the average people are finding it hard to afford a house, a family, pets, a car, groceries and basic needs, etc. Everything is a rental, the average person owns very little, some people own nothing at all, and that creates a society where people feel they have been abandoned and have no stake in anything. Meanwhile governments and corporations that influence them are leading us towards a future odd climate catastrophe, AI generated bullshit, and economic collapse.
  So is it any surprise the poor majority resents the rich minority? The worse the wealth gap gets, the stronger the resentment grows. And it has been that way throughout human history, leading to example after example of social unrest and violent revolution. A stable and healthy society demands an economy with a strong middle class that can afford the things they need and some of the things they want.
  
  Finally. Someone cleverer than me found a good way to put it. Burning Man fiddles while it’s everything else, ironically, that burns.
- I guess maybe I thought we were past this…or at least most social media has enough sensible people that things like this are properly shouted down…
  
  We may be. Sadly, those sensible people are not on social media.
  
  People will fool you online using their best behavior as a facade. It's not until you say something that doesn't tickle their fancy that their true colors come out.
- Yup, the internet is very much a place to commiserate and where being negative towards anything not in the hivemind is 1000% A-OK. Like ffs, you even see it in this thread - some other poster literally said that rich people deserve more than just death.
  I’m angry at how fucked up the system is in the US and how politicians basically became the interference between the ruling class and the working class, but when I see people cheering for the death of rich people like with this and that sub that was going to the Titanic recently, that’s not ok. It’s just as bad, if not worse, than either talking about the underlying issues or doing something about them because they allowed themselves to be ok with the death of another human being that doesn’t contribute to either side of the real issue of corporate entities controlling the US - and since that satiated them, then they don’t feel the need to actually go about change.
  
  Yup. Those kind of people are the scum of the earth