Firefox added ad tracking and has already turned it on without asking you
Attached: 1 image So this, from Firefox, is fucking toxic: https://mstdn.social/@Lokjo/112772496939724214 You might be aware Chrome— a browser made by an ad company— has been trying to claw back the limitations recently placed on ad networks by the death of third-party cookies, and added new featu...
...... I don't know of this is satire or not.
- There is now a feature labeled "Privacy-preserving ad measurement" near the bottom of your Firefox Privacy settings. I recommend turning it off, or switching to a more privacy-conscious browser such as Google Chrome.
The fact that both me and you are questioning whether this is satire or not worries me greatly.
The updates don't sound like satire. Some of this is crazypantsrants
Absolute clown shoes
I haven’t looked into the technicals much further than the support page.
The way i read it, it sounds like the companies will get some general data if their ads work without a profile about you being created. I would be fine with that. What I don’t like is the lack of communication to users about it being enabled.
PPA does not involve websites tracking you. Instead, your browser is in control. This means strong privacy safeguards, including the option to not participate.
Privacy-preserving attribution works as follows:
- Websites that show you ads can ask Firefox to remember these ads. When this happens, Firefox stores an “impression” which contains a little bit of information about the ad, including a destination website.
- If you visit the destination website and do something that the website considers to be important enough to count (a “conversion”), that website can ask Firefox to generate a report. The destination website specifies what ads it is interested in.
- Firefox creates a report based on what the website asks, but does not give the result to the website. Instead, Firefox encrypts the report and anonymously submits it using the Distributed Aggregation Protocol (DAP) to an “aggregation service”.
- Your results are combined with many similar reports by the aggregation service. The destination website periodically receives a summary of the reports. The summary includes noise that provides differential privacy.
This approach has a lot of advantages over legacy attribution methods, which involve many companies learning a lot about what you do online.
PPA does not involve sending information about your browsing activities to anyone. This includes Mozilla and our DAP partner (ISRG). Advertisers only receive aggregate information that answers basic questions about the effectiveness of their advertising.
This all gets very technical, but we have additional reading for anyone interested in the details about how this works, like our announcement from February 2022 and this technical explainer.
My question is why Mozilla is trying to help advertisers at all instead of telling them to fuck off.
Telling advertisers to fuck off works if your goal is to create a niche product tailored to people who care deeply about privacy already. But Mozilla is very much all about trying to make things better for everyone on the internet, regardless about their opinions (or lack thereof) on privacy and ads.
Mozilla has recognised that advertising isn't going anywhere, so there's two options:
What other major player would ever push for privacy preserving attribution? Hint: no one. While I get that many people here want 0 ads (myself included), PPA is a great step in the right direction, and could have a huge positive impact if it's shown to work and other companies start adopting it.
And guess what? You can still turn it off, or use adblockers. Unlike Chrome, Firefox won't restrict you in that regard.
They are one of them. June 2024: Mozilla has acquired Anonym, [...]. This strategic acquisition enables Mozilla [...] deliver effective advertising solutions.
Thank you for a thoughtful post with citations and quotes. After reading the whole page by Mozilla, it seems like they're taking steps to show advertisers how they can get what they want while preserving people's privacy. I can live with that. They're trying to build a win-win scenario.
I'll still block ads. I'll still reject cookies, but I feel like it's a reasonable feature THAT I CAN SHUT OFF. I'm still in control of my browser! Great!
Agreed, just frustrating to find out about this here and not an obvious pop up alert somewhere
It appears in the release notes, though. Previously you would have been tracked. Now they try to anonymously return data to the tracker. So I do not see a reason to uncheck that flag.
Admittedly I am interpreting this feature from my gut. And you provide the sources I would have asked for. Appreciated.
The vast majority of people do not read release notes or even know they exist.
There is nothing positive about what has been done here.
including the option to not participate.
Which is useless if you're not informed about it.
It looks it it would be fun to mock the report generation API, and returns tons of garbage data (possibly negative numbers).
At that point why not just mock google's various data mining services' APIs?
Given that it collects no additional user data, and the API in question is a new standard that will require sites to opt in, I think making it an opt-out is sensible. I guess they could make a popup about it, but I really think this concern is baseless FUD from people who haven't read the details.
I personally am fine with making it opt-out, but I think it should be handled differently. This technology requires users trust, to have any chance of being successful. Enabling it without informing the user is not the way to gain it.
I would have put a little pop up explaining that they are trying to create a privacy preserving technology to measure ads with the goal of replacing privacy invasive technology. If the user doesn’t like it, it can be disabled in the settings afterwards.
I wouldnt say it’s baseless, but there does seem to be a certain motivation with some people, every time Firefox makes a misstep.
I agree with this. I understand that the majority of users also don't read release notes and some don't even install add-ons, with this being enabled by default this would provide them with a more anonymous ad experience.
Here's a take by a Mozilla employee :
Mozilla has been ad funded since 2005
It was funded through a deal with an ad company. It did not become an ad company itself until much more recently. jwz had a succinct and memorable response to the the absurd idea that really it's been ad-funded all along and that this makes things okay:
You are just another of those so-predictable people saying, "The animal shelter has always had a kitten-meat deli, why are you surprised?"
Yes, Mozilla started making absolutely horrific funding and management decisions many years ago. Today, they have taken this subtext and turned it into the actual text.
That's certainly a quote that will stick with me.
Browser development might not be sustainable with user donations, but it sure as hell is sustainable when you get 400 million bucks by Google every year.
« Ad funded » ? Don't they mean « Google funded » ?
Firefox has never tried to run on donations though.
You're actually wrong. They did when they started.
I know because I donated
The funny thing is that the people who complain most about stuff like this, tend to be the people who contribute the least.
If you don't like them making money to support development, you're more than welcome to work full time on developing it for free
Yeah. I want to donate directly towards the development of FF, but I can't. I know several other people who of a similar disposition.
Oh shit. Now that I have checked, it was turned on by default on mine too.
What's wrong with you mozilla ?? Firefox was supposed to be the alternative
It has not been the alternative for a while now IMO. I have been using LibreWolf.
They have gone corrupt, they're full-on techbros now
You can disable this "feature":
Here's the information about it. It's anonymous and It can be turned off https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/privacy-preserving-attribution?as=u&utm_source=inproduct
As someone who works on data anonymization, I never trust anonymization.
It needs to be opt-in to be acceptable. Opt-out is not acceptable.
Here's the page about it:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/privacy-preserving-attribution
Read that instead of someones rant about it, which imo seems a bit obtuse.
This sounds fine, I've no problem emitting telemetry as long as it is 100% anonymous and can't be traced to individuals
Same, although I have lingering paranoia that any data recorded by this might be traced back to me by making inferences when combined with other data; however, unlike the OOP, I will say I don't really know what I'm talking about.
No lol, I just didn't notice and also didn't expect it to be there. :|
librewolf ftw
I keep hearing Tor is the thing now.
and ungoogled-chromium for the chrome fans 👍
I mean, it doesn't look like it's personally identifiable at all, just aggregate.
IMO, that's splitting a hair.
For a browser that supposedly respects user privacy, the fact that this is opt-out rather than opt-in really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I'm going to reconsider my monthly recurring donation to Mozilla, especially if they keep this up.
Is it tracking you or tracking ads? If it was the latter and it is made public, that is information I'm sure we would all be interested in
Seems to be the latter.
WTF... i thought this was just click bait but went to check on my phone as i am not at my PC right now
Just checked mine and it's all disabled
These are old options. I checked these off long ago.
I'm using Mull.
It was on for me too, wtf...
I'm using mull fork of Firefox which doesn't even have these settings, the tracking features are completely removed from the browser.
Mine was off, just checked.
Use Mull
Here's the info about it: https://mzl.la/3AcmG8q
I know, that's awful. I also turn it off. But that's actually different than the new feature mentioned in this post. This has existed for years already (I think)
I see this as them giving companies a more privacy-preserving alternative to tracking. And just another privacy setting to opt out for us.
Instead of a reactive social media post, here's how it works.
The only real alternative to this conflict of interest between companies and customers is an independent browser.
weirdly if you search "website advertising preferences" in the firefox setting search bar nothing comes up, you have to manually scroll to find it
For everyone trying to find the setting— On my android phone, there's a setting called "data collection". Mine were already all off, so idk who it affects
This almost sounds like a hoax. But assuming it's true... Install LibreWolf. It's Firefox without the infuriating Mozilla stupid.
Is google corrupting Mozilla?
why are you doing this to me?!
well at least there are good forks for the browser out there. how long until they start going chrome route?
Feels like google realized that once normies realize how shiti they are, they will run for firefox which by then hopefully will be a properly gutted front end for an ad company.
now
No. This is a privacy-protecting option that gathers no additional information about you or your hardware.
The other link posted in reply is overblown fear-mongering from Mozilla's single biggest hater because they bought an ad company.
In which version is this?
Claim was this happened in ff 128, released july 9. I am currently on 128, and I found it turned on for me.
Yes. Just checked, was turned on.
I am on flatpak 128 as well and it isn't there
There are people that use Firefox who also get served ads?
Literally every browser has this option, and it gives users a choice. If you use an ad blocker, it has this option as well and has had it for several years now.
Not this option, but generally I agree. Currently I don't think this is bad, and in the longer term we will see if this leaks any identifyable data.
This is the first browset to implement something like that. I don't know what you're talking about and you don't either apparently.
So.... finally Mozilla has slowly but surely going into the dark side huh...
I'm not surprised anymore, they even had telemetry code inside android apps from waaay back then (although seems for debugging purpose)
In the end I'm not justify all company bc they need money for survive & exist, although i don't like the way they do it
Mull or Fennic although Fennic needs a lot of settings changed for privacy
Mozilla has been bad actors since at least 2017, they implemented a piece of malware called Cliqz on a small number of German user's installs that recommends various services based on browser history (aka tracking and advertising); so I'd hardly call this a new development, or Mozilla "just now" falling to the dark side (and that's not even mentioning pocket and DoH to cloudflare, which are still enabled by default).
This isn't ad tracking though. Do you even know how this works?
What’s the behavior before this option was added? Would websites track you or not?
They definitely didn't just stop tracking you because this option exists.
https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/p1m2bc/who_are_adjust_the_mobile_marketing_vendor_used/
Whatever it is, it's been around for at least 3 years.
They haven't added ad tracking. That's a fake news. You should read up on how it actually works.
I've read up on how it works and it says it's tracking how well or badly ads perform when shown to me. That's tracking ads, otherwise called ad tracking.
What now?
It's not tracking you. It's not the same.
I'm currently on 115.12.0esr and the feature is absent.
And they wonder why their market share is decreasing.
The only major browser that actually seems to care about their users is Vivaldi, sadly.
Vivaldi is not private, or open source. It is also a fork of Chromium. If we are going to name forks, then Librewolf or GNU Icecat are better browsers by a mile.
Name anything Vivaldi specifically (not Chromium-wide) has done to screw over their users. I can't name a single thing, while I can name many Anti-User things Firefox has done.
Unfortunately, open-source becomes nearly meaningless when the cost to produce a fork becomes so prohibitive and the open-source project starts acting like a for-profit company.
Community: Boo!
Community: well, they have to (and whatever).
I sense some mental dissonance.
Cognitive dissonance? Not supporting bigotry is wholly unrelated to this issue. Also who calls gay people homosexuals? Just say gays like a normal person ffs
if by "community" you mean the majority of users... I think you are backwards in both of those. Most don't care about what Andreas did, and most firefox users are outraged at this.
I would call it a vocal minority
The community is VERY MUCH against the decline of Mozilla
Could you send some evidence
No i can't. All i know is that there was some uproar about this a week ago.