What's stopping him?
What's stopping him?
![](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3dc49ea3-d66e-44ea-9e9e-53dacd3b4ece.png?format=webp&thumbnail=128)
![](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3dc49ea3-d66e-44ea-9e9e-53dacd3b4ece.png?format=webp)
What's stopping him?
Make it so felons cannot run for president and resign immediately after.
If he did that Biden would be remembered as one of the greatest presidents ever.
Or change the max age to 75.
Unfortunately Trump isn’t the real underlying problem; the republican party will churn out someone even worse who is not a convicted felon.
They still have Ron DeSantis. There's a good chance he will run in 2028, if either Trump wins but the GOP won't make it so that he can be re-elected indefinitely, or Trump loses and the cognitive decline will also be shown on him even more...
But wait until after the Republican convention.
That's not how the ruling works.
Biden could go shoot Donald Trump (in broad daylight on 5th Avenue) and could not be prosecuted for it.
He cannot make new laws. That's still Congress's job, for now.
Make it so felons cannot run for president
How does immunity let him do that?
Doing that would require changing the constitution. Legally, this would let him go and scribble new words on the paper version of the constitution. He would be immune from the charge of vandalism. But, that wouldn't actually change the constitution.
That's a legislative thing, not a crime to just be immune for.
Biden has the chance to do the coolest thing. He wont because hes the most tepid person in the most tepid party in the country but, I'd love to be wrong.
Such a good word to describe Biden. Tepid. Like a beer that's been sitting while i worked outside, or maybe the last sip of coffee. Not the best, but better than nothing.
I prefer milquetoast.
Yeah I'm still drinking that last sip of coffee, I don't care if it's cold. Apt word, apt description.
Especially when the alternative is a glass of poison. A warm, flat beer is not going to kill you, even though it might taste disgusting.
The worst thing is that you don't get to choose whether you're drinking the warm, flat beer or the poison. Depending on where you live your vote might not even matter. A bunch of uninformed and misinformed idiots in a few random states will decide for you which you're drinking.
Tepid people wouldn't have plagiarized so many speeches back when they thought no one would notice.
What stopping them is that Democrats are too weak and timid to do anything.
They are simply complicit.
The mask is off. We officially cannot trust our government anymore.
Never could
don't mix up weakness with decency though
Not mutually exclusive...
The worst part is that Biden and the Dems don't have the balls to do anything like this or intentionally put this verdict to the test. Just clutch their pearls and not actually do anything.
Gotta take the high road while the other side takes a road so low it undermines the foundations of everything we are!
Biden already said as much with his response to the ruling.
Paraphrasing: "We must respect the (self imposed) limits to the presidency and I will do so. We can't exactly trust the next guy to do so and that's dangerous." (Proceeds to wag finger as if that will do fuck-all)
You know how Chamberlain ended up with a reputation for being the coward that allowed Hitler to become powerful on the world stage? Biden is gambling on this fucking election that it will prevent him from going down in history as today's version of that.
Except it will be more deserved for Biden because Chamberlain knew the Allies didn't have the capability to stop Hitler with force when Hitler was making his early moves and was quietly building up the UK's military while appeasing Hitler.
Everything that is about to come is as much at Biden's feet as it is at Trump's and all his fascist friends'.
Nobody in this administration actually wanted to prosecute Trump. That's why the Stormy Daniels case had to go through NY State Court rather than the federal system. Biden's USAs sat on these cases for nearly four years, after he took office. And they slow rolled them all through the various federal districts during the primary, with the hope that he'd lose the primary and the problem would just go away.
Everyone in the White House responsible for prosecuting Trump must have breathed a big sigh of relief when that SC verdict came down, because it gave them the perfect excuse to drop all the charges.
Democrats are like 'Good Cops'. They're not the ones actively murdering and beating and doing all the bad shit. But they do just kinda stand around while it happens and don't do much.
We need them, for now, to at least not make things worse, but what we really need is to fucking change things from the bottom up. Unfortunately, I'm afraid it is likely too late. Such change will take two or three decades, and that's if, in this next election, enough people actually rally together to start doing something, and continue doing something for the next thirty years.
Immune from criminal prosecution*
The state AGs can and will still challenge any and all such executive orders.
But if Biden hypothetically were to kidnap, beat, or murder supreme court justices or political opponents, then that's another story.
Yep, EO's are still subjected to judicial reviews.
This ruling doesn't let Biden write new laws. But, he could put out an EO and then use force to enforce it. He could put one out, that then gets overruled, then he could just claim that the justice department was wrong.
This is so fucking stupid
A brilliant kind of stupidity, though. They know this won't hold up, they're just trying to buy time so Trump doesn't spend part of his campaign behind bars.
Even if he were prosecuted, his lawyers could claim he was too senile to know what he was doing, and it's not like he's got enough years left in him to worry about seeing the end of it.
As in he could do it without consequence, other story?
Yes. To clarify for you:
One story is he does regular legislative actions, the states can contest it
another story is he does something criminal as official business, nobody can do shit about it
Maybe Biden should appoint a mob boss as president for a couple of weeks
Just wait until November, you'll be doing that anyway 😉
Cowardice, the same thing that stopped him from packing the court on his first day.
To some extent, the Democrats are playing chicken with Trump's eventual re-election. They don't want to actually "seize" power in the same way that Republicans do. They want the pendulum to swing back and forth so they can keep getting re-elected and keep playing that old game of kickball with Republicans. Dems win some. Republicans win some. Everybody gets to complain about the opposition and do nothing. That Republicans seem to be updating their modus operandi from playing kickball to playing what seems to be "king of the hill, but with knives" has not quite dawned on the Democratic party collectively yet.
For real. Biden could seemingly imprison some republicans from both chambers of Congress, and secure a majority in both chambers. From there have congress pass legislation making felons incapable of running for office, and also allowing for all actions a president does liable to prosecution.
You’re thinking too small, he could fucking have Alito and Thomas thrown in jail or hanged if he were so inclined, I’m not saying he should have them hanged, but he totally could based on this ruling
That's Putin tactics
Which he taught to the republicans, which they just promulgated into law in the highest court.
Of course Biden shouldn't do anything heinous, but he definitely should do something earthshaking against either Republican party or the Supreme Court just to make a point.
Thing is, this tool the SCOTUS has given the POTUS only works for fascists. Even if Biden did house arrests it would likely blow up in our face.
Perfect opportunity to do something, get impeached (including dems) and rally behind a new canditate.
Huevos
When you risk your own life, you've got balls.
When you risk other people's lives without their permission, you're an asshole.
Biden will only abuse his presidential powers in a Trump way for real important matters.
Such as bypassing congres to send bombs to israel for Genocide.
Congress, of course, is totally concerned about Gazans. that's why they voted not to release the number of deaths! /s
The president can’t bypass congress for elections, because congress/states have control. You can for the military, because it’s an executive department.
The president can't do anything unless it's Trump. Then he can do everything.
Biden can appoint more supreme court justices and play the same dirty game for America.
There 100% are legal loopholes to abuse if Biden wants to. But apparently he only wants to abuse those to support Genocide. After that he suddenly grows "morals".
An obstructionist Congress?
What's stopping him now from dissolving congress? From sending them all back home and requiring governors send new representatives. This situation is the LITERAL slippery slope Republicans have cried about for decades
The thing is that they would just not dissolve and say he has no power to do so. Biden is immune from prosecution for this, but he doesn't have power to dissolve congress and would ignore him.
What he could do is say that congress (or Trump or SCOTUS for that matter) are a threat to the nation and then have them assassinated or imprisoned. Based on this ruling, he'd be immune from prosecution for this act and would effectively dissolve them by force.
The fact that it almost incentives the president to take the most extreme and authoritarian action is the scariest part of this ruling to me.
As an official act you direct the FBI to detain a portion of congres on.. let's see.. suspected treason. Then you have congres vote. Isn't this how dictators do it?
I wish Dems had that dog in them to fight, even if this was possible. The fact they still go around calling modern day GOP their friends and colleagues says more than enough.
They're all on the same corporate payrolls, dems are and have been nothing more than controlled opposition.
If I were in Biden's position, the first thing I'd do would be to [comment cannot legally be completed].
Biden should order assassination of the MAGA justices
That wouldn't be official.
Now if the orange hate-crime declares assassination of AOC, Biden, Hilary Clinton, the entire Obama family, Jon Stewart, and I dunno, Steve-O, that would be official.
Because the SC decides what is official.
Oh yeah, they also decided who won the election, btw. Do vote, it will be an excellent point added to documentaries made about the collapse of the US of how people voted against.
So, Fat Orange Clown, how is "hiding documents you shouldn't have as a non-president" an official act? How is anything done as "not the president" an official act?
RIP
That's not what they said iirc. Now everything has to be presented to determine if it was an official act, if so immunity, if not no immunity.
It's a very half hearted way to look like they're backing trump but actually throwing him to the wolves since it's not an official act and everyone knows it. It would similarly reverse clintons impeachment since lying to Congress was as president and therefore an official act.
It would similarly reverse clintons impeachment since lying to Congress was as president and therefore an official act.
No, this decision wouldn't affect that at all. This decision covers criminal prosecution, not impeachment. Now, if Clinton had been indicted, tried, and convicted of perjury for lying to Congress after Bush was elected in 2000, then it would be unwinding that conviction, if it was determined that it was an official act as president.
Immunity does not equate to lack of opposition within government, which is what he is going to get if he plays by the rules. Now, if he goes in as commander in chief to depose them through a literal coup, he would be legally immune from the repercussions of abusing his powers whether it worked out or not, but the mistake here would be believing that the GQP care about legality when they only consider it a means to an end to corrupt so that the people that do care can't use it against them.
What's stopping him is "civility politics," even when he's been handed a path to thoroughly purge corruption and fascism from the supreme court, he won't.
The GOP has shown they do not care at all about civility, and will abuse this rule.
To not play by the same rules when people's lives are at stake is a deep moral failure, and shows that politics are simply a game for the DNC when faced with a GOP that doesn't care.
I'm not so sure it's civility politics that is limiting him here. I doubt this nakedly corrupt and partisan court would actually side with his administration when it comes to agreeing that his acts are indeed official. Especially if said acts don't fit with the Federalist Society's ideology.
If he doesn't get re-elected that's a different story, and he is realistically too old to face major consequences for his actions... so it would be great if he would at least have special forces rough these guys up a little bit to make a point about the necessary limits on executive power.
That he's an executive not legislative?
Well, yes he is. He is both legislative and executive. In the US system head of state and head of government are the same person. In Germany for example the head of state is the federal president Frank-Walter Steinmeier. He is part of the Legislative and ratifies laws. Then there is the more famous chancellor who is the head of government Olaf Scholz. He holds the executive power. Although Bidens power in legislation is limited he still has some.
If he doesn't follow procedure would that be a crime?
Probably not.
Yeah, that tends to happen with empires.
I keep seeing post and comments like this.
You all realize it’s only immunity from criminal prosecution, right? It’s not instant dictatorship power over the nation. He’d have to order the assassination of Trump and members of SCOTUS to leverage the ruling for those goals.
You are correct. But the fact that the ruling enables those actions is batshit crazy.
Kill the SC then replace them with ones to sanction anything he likes?
Not even order it, he'd have to do it himself
Anyone who'd hypothetically take the order has an obligation to refuse it, all he's doing there is passing the prosecution that he wasn't going to be in for anyways.
That’s a really good point. They’d need plausible deniability to avoid being convicted.
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All this talk about Biden could do all of these administrative things that he can't legally, but it misses the point.
Say he pushes some illegal orders. He can not get in trouble for pushing them, but they can be legally challenged and shot down quickly. Especially when you can legally "tip" helpful justices.
He would need to do things that could not be taken back.
You're missing the point, where the president can now legally commit an illegal act, and call it an official act, before the lawyers can deliberate, he's rounded up dissenters in the government and had them shot. No amount of lawfare raises the dead.
Unpopular opinion: You should be allowed to run for president and be a president even with a criminal record. I don't support trump and think the convictions are well earned. But democracy is a democracy - it's up to the people to decide whether or not they should have a convicted criminal in office.
Let’s start with letting felons work and rent apartments in the US before we move on to the presidency.
Good point
Agree. The fact that we have to try to think of ways to block this guy from being on the ballot is the truly sad part. It's mind blowing that the simple gigantic list of inadequacies and reasons not to vote for him isn't enough. I can't comprehend what has happened to peoples brains. A pod person epidemic seems like an increasingly viable explanation.
Especially given that prosecutions are often racially biased, and sometimes politically biased.
If an opponent with a criminal record can't run, you incentivize an immoral president to have their political opponents charged with anything they can think of.
OTOH, the American electorate is filled with idiots. You would hope that people would see through a purely political conviction and not let that stop them. But, the reality is probably the opposite, a serial killer who ate his victims could run, and if the party got behind that candidate, half the electorate would not know he was a serial killer, or they'd vote for him anyhow, or they'd think his conviction was just a psy-op and his victims were crisis actors.
Your second paragraph is the main reason.
I am from the UK and a famous example is Bobby Sands MP. Was a member of the PIRA, but was in prison and got elected MP for his constituency. While I do believe the PIRA to be a brutal terrorist organisation, the people who voted him in wanted to show their support - and I agree with their right to do that as much as I vehemently disagree with their choice
Those who are suggesting Biden do this or that, are forgetting the most important thing about coup d'état: his “followers” would need to actually act on his orders.
And even if they were to do that, which I doubt they would, I don’t think SCOTUS made the rank and file immune to prosecution. While they may have made it harder for Jan 6 obstructionists to be pursued, I’m pretty sure that’s limited to those Jan 6’ers. So anyone following Biden’s orders would likely see jail (or worse). Sure Biden could pardon them, but that would only happen if a) Biden was still president after a failed coup, and 2) the people being pardoned would need to be prosecuted first, which is lengthy, disruptive, and expensive.
This only helps republicans, because as horrible as they are, the one thing they excel at more than their capacity for hate is their ability to unify and work together. Democrats… yeah, ain’t happening.
Because they would all go after Biden.
Dementia. But hopefully one of his handlers arranges for this.
One thing has nothing to do with the other.
Dems are controlled opposition. How many times do they have to betray you before you learn that.
Its not absolute immunity. Its presumed immunity for official acts. Its literally the same rules as always. He can still go to jail if they can prove it.
It was basically the supreme court saying "we aint touching this, you figure it out"
It's absolute immunity for "core constitutional acts" and presumed immunity for every other official act.
The ruling also said trump can appeal rulings on if specific acts receive immunity, so they can overturn a ruling they don't like.
Then you get to prove it wasnt an constitutional act.