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1w ago

Alternatives for each of Proton's tools?

Mostly out of curiosity, but also somewhat related to Proton's recent political involvement, I'm curious about alternatives to using their services, open to suggestions for:

Proton Mail: anything that can support custom domain, email aliases, and email scheduling?
Proton Drive: not the most important, but interested in privacy first, encrypted hosting services
Proton Pass: anything I should take a look at besides Bitwarden and Keepass?
Proton VPN: that one's the hardest, it was really good, I think Mullvlad is the one most often recommended?
Proton Calendar: didn't really care about that one, but it was nice that it connected to Mail

My Unlimited plan renewed in December so I'll probably keep it for a year, it was nice having only one subsctiption to keep in mind, but I'm thinking of exploring other options

67 comments

For Mail, I'd recommend Tuta (which comes with 15-30 aliases depending on the plan) and a third-party aliasing service like Addy if you need more than that. If you want a different aliasing service and are searching around, and trying to avoid giving money to Proton, avoid SimpleLogin, since they are owned by Proton. I don't believe Tuta has email scheduling, though.
For Drive, either use Tresorit, or use Cryptomator if you're okay with paying for OneDrive/Dropbox/Google Drive. (Cryptomator encrypts uploaded files & names so the cloud provider itself can't view the contents)
For Pass, I personally would recommend Bitwarden or Keepass simply depending on whichever one you prefer more. Both are good options.
For VPN, definitely use Mullvad. Simple, unchanging monthly price, you can pay via numerous different ways if you want to keep your identity more private from them (e.g. paying with cash by mail, XMR, etc) and you'll get an account number rather than needing to actually give them any information like an email to create an account. Do be aware it has much less locations than Proton, and most other VPN providers, although it's still quite fast and usable for most cases.
For Calendar, Tuta also has a calendar feature built-in.
I'd highly recommend checking out Privacy Guides by the way, since they tend to have good lists of alternatives for any other services you may want to switch from also.
- Thank you for the detailed response!! I'll study all the options ❤️

related to Proton’s recent political involvement
You should probably check the political leanings of the directors of each of the alternatives you are considering as well.
- Yeah, don't just drop whoever opens their mouth to speak..
  
  There is absolutely a point to shaming and boycotting everyone who acts negatively in public. Of course beeing a secret scumbag is also bad but it doesn't promote scumbaggery to other. A quiet ass does less damage than a loud one.
- I will, but that's not the most important point of this post

Tuta is an excellent alternative.
Fastmail is what I use for my day to day mail. If you're concerned about it being subject to Australian privacy laws, check out Startmail.
Mailbox.org is very good but some may find it overly complex.
- I was already considering tuta as my "main" email for degoogling purposes, I'll consider their options for the paid plan, it looks like the strongest competitor to Proton
- Migadu is also a very good option, have been using it for the past 2 years after leaving Proton. Very cheap compared to other plans.
  https://migadu.com/freedom/
  
  I didn't know about them. Their about us page is interesting. If I understand correctly you must provide your own domain, is that correct?
  Edit: yes, no other choice

If you must:
Proton Mail/Calendar ➡️ Posteo, Tutanota, Mailbox.org
Proton Drive ➡️ Tresorit, Nextcloud, Filen, Syncthing, MEGA
Proton Pass ➡️ KeePass
Proton VPN ➡️ Mullvad VPN, IVPN, Windscribe
Proton Wallet ➡️ Cake Wallet, Electrum
Some of these don't have first-party mobile or desktop clients, so here are some apps to use them with:
Posteo & Mailbox.org - Thunderbird (desktop, Android), FairEmail (Android), Evolution (Unix-like), Geary (Unix-like), Claws Mail (desktop), Fossify Calendar + DAVx⁵ (Android)
KeePass: KeePassXC (desktop), KeePassDX (Android), KeePassium (iOS)
- One really nice advantage for Posteo is even if you stop paying, they'll never delete your account unless you specifically delete it yourself(preventing address recycling, unlike mailbox.org) and you can still access your account and recieve emails, you just can't send any until you pay again. They won't even delete it from inactivity.
  That's a rather unique feature in the email world now.
- I'll just add:
  Proton drive => Seafile (selfhosted)
  protonpass => bitwarden
  
  I stopped using Bitwarden. Unless I'm mistaken, they were about to start doing some closed-source stuff.
- Seconding Tutanota. Started using it this week and it is so...simple! There are 2 apps on Android, but actually only the Tutamail one is needed.
  I also use Nextcloud through a private cloud implementation, and it is not refined in the UI, but good enough.
- I agree with many recommendations
  but as someone who has tried many VPN providers I can say Windscribe is really bad (for servers in the EU at least).
  Slow, few servers, unreliable, and blocked on many websites
  surprisingly I see it recommended all the time
  
  An assessment of windscribes European performance is helpful because I had no idea.
  I'm in Canada (windscribe is Canadian), and find windscribe to be pretty good. So maybe it depends on location.
- I wouldn't touch MEGA with a ten foot pole.
  I'd also argue BitWarden shits on Keepass for UX.
  
  Yes. I use KeePass every day but it's not similar to Bitwarden and Proton Pass which are very similar to each other.
  I will ask, although this is a question for everyone I suppose. Why not use MEGA if your also using Cryptomator?

Mullvad is great. Also for drive, if you just need e2ee photo storage, check out ente.
- ente
  Thanks, first time hearing about them. I'll check them out.
  
  They have a great authenticator app too.

Why does everyone just say use Mullvad now, I always got taught if they are advertising, you should not use them, has this stance changed?
- How would a company (even a good one) let people know they exist without some sort of advertising?
  Just start a company and sit there hoping people accidentally find you, then tell their friends?
  Advertising has to happen on some level.
  
  Fair enough, that's on me for not thinking it all the way through.
  On the flipside why is mullavad as trusted as it is now?
- Mullvad still advertises less than the others.
  Nord has like the highest advertising budget I've ever seen.
  And a lot of the major providers have been caught making fake recommendation websites.
- Mullvad has amazing privacy credentials that are third party audited.
  In terms of anonymity, you can literally send them cash via post to protect your identity.
  I recommend them to everyone.
- they won't advertise much until you download theur browser. that's intrusive af

Mullvad VPN

Mail and calendar: Tuta seems the only alternative for mail and calendar if you want custom domain support and encryption by default that Tuta (probably) can't access even if legally compelled to. Doesn't have a desktop bridge like Proton does, rather it has a full Linux app for both email and calendar. Which will be a pro for some people and a con for others. And I'm struggling to run it on my nixOS system, for the three people on earth that would matter for.
Drive: I have a Synology NAS which handles this need very well for me, especially with my own managed wireguard VPN for access away from home
Pass: Bitwarden
VPN: Mullvad

VPS with nextcloud et al

Fastmail.com has been great here.

Mail and calendar: i think mailbox and posteo should work well, they both support IMAP for mail and CalDAV for calendar, just get a nice client(surprisingly not many for calendar standard protocol. thunderbird on desktop and etar/fossify calendar on android. stock one on ios)
VPN: MullVAD is the best
Drive: Check filen, it's cheaper and better, and has powerful CLI tools
Pass: Maybe unofficial self hosted version of bitwarden. It's called vaultwarden, and don't be afraid of selfhost, basically all you need to do is docker compose.

I just moved to Proton before this while debacle and it definitely put me properly back on edge about who to trust in tech!
I'll probably stick with their email and calendar for now. (Though I'm curious what hosted calendars might be out there I could use alternatives for arranging events with friends.)
I had started on Keepass before, briefly tried Proton Pass, and now have completed moving to Keepass. I keep my database in my syncthing folder and have it on all my devices. With browser plug-ins and the KeepassDX app on Android, the experience is basically identical, except entirely private and self-hosted. A win all around, I'm real happy with this.
For VPN I'm using surfshark right now and haven't had any real issues. Not sure what the prevailing sentiment about them is though. I do sometimes find their endpoints blocked by various sites (catbox.moe is oddly very picky about this).
For drive, I'll probably end up getting a seedbox and a lot more hardrives in the near future anyway, so that'll be a problem/solution for me then.

There was a recent post on !privacy@lemmy.dbzer0.com

Tutanota, infomaniak, onion mail, forward email, i2p mail
set up your own hosting solution. it is not hard, i did it too. if you need a preset one, nextcloud, filen, cryptpad, cozy, puter, internxt, cloudreve, denet
not really, Bitwarden and KeepassXC are the most established ones. for the best security and privacy, i recommend (selhosted) Bitwarden, since if your computer with KeepassXC, or even just the drive you installed it on stops working, you lose all your passwords, which really sucks. This is not an issue with Bitwarden, the passwords are stored with zero knowledge encryption, you will have all your passwords until you know the master password, and can log into the same vault from almost any device (windows, mac, linux, android, ios, bsd)
Mullvad, yes. But there are some others like Riseup, Calyx, nym vpn
For calendars, there are a shit ton of them: My favorite is Foossify Calendar, but there are some others like: Tuta calendar, etar, kalendar, calindori

I was thinking about subbing to Proton and researched a few other alternatives but ended up coming to the conclusion that it is kinda useless for me and most people. Unless the other person(s) you email are also using Proton or a similar service then you’re still compromised. I guess it makes sense for some people like journalists or politicians, but only if you know your peers are also using it. I ended up moving everything to iCloud which does most of what you’re looking for.
- Personally I switched to a private email just so it would be one less avenue to harvest my data and habits for advertisers.
- @Plebcouncilman @inlandempire
  I use Proton and can automatically send my public keys attached to every email I send out. Yes, emails with other Proton users are fully encrypted, but I can see the padlock icon on emails to and from some l of my friends and relatives using Gmail and Yahoo mail for example.
  Proton made PGP encryption use quite easy.
  Good luck!

Generally, I'd recommend having different services for everything anyway just for situations like this where if one's bad, you don't have to change everything else. Pick what services you really need the premium for and find free tiers that match your needs on others. For VPN, I still use PIA since their reputation is still holding up. I know you said you don't want to hear it but Bitwarden for password manager and for the rare time I need cloud storage, I use Mega since they offer 20GB on their free tier. Oh, and Disroot for email bit that doesn’t have everything you're looking for so I can't recommend it even if it's been great for my use case.
- Yeah that's something that hovered in my mind for a time, not putting all my eggs in the same basket
  
  @inlandempire @DebatableRaccoon Hmmm.... Proton is really good.
  People have their opinions and make mistakes.
  It's OK if those who service me have different opinions than me as long as they do a good job and their services are of high quality.
  Besides, executives can be replaced, right?
  Anyway. Proton is fabulous - actions speak louder than words.

He made one tweet
Then the company issues a statement
No more tweets or support
I mean, come on .. it's blown way out of water
- Everyone has a different level of tolerance. Personally, Andy can belch all the political crap he wants since Proton is a completely separate entity. But, when the official Proton account doubles-down on views I disagree with (which they've since deleted), that's what crossed my threshold. I've since moved to another service.
- He made one tweet
  A tweet and then several posts form the official Proton account. Furthermore his comments were so obviously badly informed both about the US government and the nature of his userbase that he clearly lacks the critical thinking to run the company.
  Also because no one mentioned them yet, Filen is great as a Drive replacement, and unlike Proton they have a Linux app.
- People have the right to chose their merchant in the same manner they chose their life partner... anything goes, it is personal preference.
  Andy fucked up by not reading the room and now he is suffering the consequences for his brave leadership.
  I am wondering who he thought his user base was now... is his this out of touch?!
  He also misunderstood that while boycott google does not work because normie aint got nothing to hide and it is convenience! A gal or guy who switched to proton did so for a very specific reason and they ARE WILLING TO SUFFER for that extra inch of "freedom"
  I aint switching yet but I am monitoring Proton. i expect improvements such as no ADS to paying customers.
- I was pretty unhappy with his leadership of Proton since its inception. Barely any work on basic features like email or calendar, constant need to rewrite the whole thing because they had some horrible backend architecture, then prioritizing crypto wallets nobody asked for and shoving more AI into places we don't care about.
  I already canceled my paid plan and switched, and it honestly feels like a breath of fresh air. Things fucking work beautifully well compared to Proton's garbage UX.
- If we did this when Google of Facebook started with shitty things now even the megacorp hellscape would be just that tiny bit better & even capital would have to work/give more for the people.
  So when a Proton does a weird (which it def was, super weird, even in case of a Democrat win in USA the twaat would have been inappropriate since neither campaign ran on a pro privacy and free internet principles), this should be the reaction of its userbase.
  It's exemplary is what it is, not overblown, it is how humans shape society, how they "vote" for direction and for the people.
- Maybe it is an overreaction. With copious alternatives and the footprint i had its relatively painless to move. I don't need to stay with a service that even slightly supports things that I don't agree with. Its my money, ill spend it how I like.
- As I mentioned in the post, this is mostly out of curiosity
- I agree.
  They stumbled into a political mess, it was naive and foolish but it doesn't mean the whole of proton should be written off.
  I'm not looking for an alternative. Although it is also good that people have other options to share and the freedom to move providers should they wish. I will still recommend Proton to people.

disroot, or autistici, depending on your politics

Lots of Mullvan ppl in here, I thought Private Internet Access was supposed to be the king? What happened?
I don't use any VPN, FWIW.

I’m probably gonna get yelled at for this, but for my use case it works, since I’m not actually trying to hide from the law, just avoiding being tracked by marketing companies… Icloud+ offers encrypted cloud storage, a proxy IP relay, and more importantly an email service that gives you unlimited aliases.

Lucky me I didn't use any of their services, good luck to you for finding alternatives tho

67 comments