Probably the easiest boycott you could do, let's do it Lemmy!

Here's a list of a few .ml communities and potential replacements:
ask lemmy - !asklemmy@lemm.ee !asklemmy@sh.itjust.works
linux - !linuxquestions@lemmy.zip !linux@linux.community !linux@programming.dev
memes - !memes@sopuli.xyz !memes@slrpnk.net !196@lemmy.blahaj.zone !memes@midwest.social
programmer humor - !programmer_humor@programming.dev
world news - !news@beehaw.org !globalnews@lemmy.zip
technology - !technology@sh.itjust.works
funny - !funny@sh.itjust.works
ukraine - !ukraine@sopuli.xyz
Side note the main issue with .ml is transparency. It's fine if the admins of an instance implement whatever rules they want in their instance; however, once they start enforcing hidden rules disguised as violations of the listed rules, they're being liars and treating the users as stupid things to be herded, not as human beings.
EDIT: as people noticed I'm not including .world comms to not encourage even further concentration of activity into the largest instance. Decentralisation is important. Also I'm adding stuff that you guys suggest.
for specialised memes, as the category is rather large:
!science_memes@mander.xyz
!reactionmemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
!mathmemes@lemmy.blahaj.zone
!loweffortmemes@walledgarden.xyz
!lotrmemes@midwest.social
!leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
!flippanarchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
!femcelmemes@lemmy.blahaj.zone
!fedimemes@feddit.uk
- I had the audacity to say that the deaths of Tiannanmen's Square were inexcusable, no matter who started the violence, and my comment was removed under instance rule 1 (bigotry).. like wat 😂
  
  Ah, typical lemmy.ml . They have a hard time understanding that you can support a certain ideology without necessarily turning a blind eye to everything that people claim to be doing for the sake of said ideology, or that any criticism against their actions is automatically false.
  I remember you, by the way. You were already an old Lemmy user when I joined in, 3y ago!
  
  I dared to say that the illegal, violent invasion of the foreign nation of Ukraine was bad. Turns out NATO made them do that, as well as rape and torture all those people and steal the children. Who knew... 🤷‍♂️
  
  The irony of so-called Marxist-Leninists refusing to be self-critical...
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_and_self-criticism_(Marxism%E2%80%93Leninism)
- The .ml transparency thing is a symptom, not a root cause. The admins like and even participate in the .ml rhetoric. The rules ambiguity is intentional.
  
  We could argue that the root cause is that .ml admins pretending that their instance's target audience is wider than it actually is.
  
  It’s a great advertisement for communism that’s for sure. They haven’t even gotten real power and it already resembles the worst of what communism offers. They’re a bunch of wannabe Ceausescu’s.
- the main issue with .ml is ~~transparency~~ authoritarian propaganda with full-throated support from the admins
- If they were banning people for shit posting on a communism community I wouldn't have a problem. Its when you get removed banned from all communities because you said you don't like there crappy memes
  
  Or even if they had an instance-wide rule saying "don't criticise Russia or China here". It's fine as long as the rules are clear.
  But no, instead they libel the users criticising either, claiming that they violated rule #1 (TL;DR "no bigots"). Even when the criticism is clearly against the government.
  And then you get a bunch of 11yos eating that ban message for breakfast, because they're ~~full of gullibleness and don't get the purpose of this utterance~~ dumb fucks.
- !asklemmy@lemmy.world has over 70 times as many subscribers as the other two asklemmy communities combined.
  
  I'm avoiding linking lemmy.world instances. We shouldn't put even more eggs in that basket, you know.
- Mmhmm, mmhmm - secret laws, secret trials - definitely not authoritarian behavior at all.
- !memes@slrpnk.net
  
  Added to the list - thanks!
- memes:
  !196@lemmy.blahaj.zone is the single best meme community on lemmy, imho
  !memes@midwest.social,
  and for more specialized memes:
  !science_memes@mander.xyz,
  !reactionmemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com,
  !mathmemes@lemmy.blahaj.zone,
  !loweffortmemes@walledgarden.xyz,
  !lotrmemes@midwest.social,
  !leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com,
  !flippanarchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com,
  !femcelmemes@lemmy.blahaj.zone,
  !fedimemes@feddit.uk
  world news: I realize you're avoiding lemmy.world to promote decentralization which is why you're listing !news@beehaw.org, but note that beehaw defederated itself from lemmy.world and from several others?
  
  Is femcel memes ironic?
  
  I've added all of them to the list, thanks!
  Regarding !news@beehaw.org, now there's an alternative there.
- An odd choice on their part is dessalines upvoting every comment that corresponds to a removal or ban. Feels almost as though they’ve Jerry-rigged their moderation code to an extreme degree in order to keep up with the day job levels of moderation they’re doing.
- !ukraine@lemmy.ml vs !ukraine@sopuli.xyz
- I suggest you add !globalnews@lemmy.zip to the news section. Beehaw isn't accessible to people on instances they've defederated from or instances that have defederated them.
- Hello! That's a very lovely formatted table with links, however, clicking on them does nothing for me whilst clicking on links otherwise in the replies does take me to the respective communities. I don't know if it's just me though.
  
  That's weird - are you accessing lemmy through a browser, or some app?
  Check if it works here: !funny@sh.itjust.works
  If it does then it's the table interacting weirdly with the links, I can fix it by removing the table.
- Hey. Hey, people. Just selecting each link and subscribing will vastly improve your experience here in the fediverse. Do it now, before you forget!
- It’s fine if the admins of an instance implement whatever rules they want in their instance; however, once they start enforcing hidden rules disguised as violations of the listed rules, they’re being liars and treating the users as stupid things to be herded, not as human beings.
  I see a lot more of that on .world communities, specifically the news and political memes communities will remove comments for "misinformation" even if you're citing academic works.
  
  will remove comments for "misinformation"
  As they should
  even if you're citing academic works.
  I've seen the "academic works" y'all cite, blog posts, YT videos, random books and retracted studies
  
  If the .world admins are doing it too, it's also bad. Thankfully I didn't list a single .world community, although for another reason.
  
  Citing some random paper doesn't make what your saying not disinformation.

As long as it's not only lemmy.world communities you start growing. Centralization won't lead to good outcomes anywhere.
- Absolutely! Grow a community on any instance that doesn't allow the kind of users that lemmy.ml does I say.
  I think we gave them too much power by making their communities as big as we did
  
  I'm glad there is enough critical mass to move past those fucking hatemongers. "Pure free speech and anarchy!" If you say exactly what we want you to, also don't accidentally offend us with normal fucking words
- Yeah, we'd hate to make a good alternative when everyone can just use Bluesky and Meta.
  The hate for .world simply because of size doesn't make sense to me. It's fine to make new (unique) communities elsewhere, but shunning the biggest successful communities on .world to try to grow empty communities on other instances is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
  If you're constantly shunning the biggest instance simply for being big, you'll end up killing Lemmy.
  
  There's more than just being big, those things may not matter to you, or even the majority, but I've heard enough gripes repeated to know some people are bothered.
  The flip flopping on policies without clear transparency bothered some people but tbh I forgave that as growing pains of being in charge of a new popular platform.
  The one mentioned more often is how they're one of the main ones to federate with Meta's Threads. Integration isn't really there right now anyway but every other major Lemmy instance has preemptively blocked them already:
  
  source
  
  I don't think most of the data in the network should be hosted by a single legal entity, that's just unhealthy even if the protocol is open. It's also my main complaint about bluesky- technically open protocol, de facto centralization.
  
  You can see instances that haven't been defederated. Why is it important for everyone to be on the same one? Everyone has the ability to get the same feed on All.

I criticized the CCP on lemmy.ml and got called racist and got banned lmao
Edit: thank you for the link, Lazycog@sopuli.xyz!
https://lemmy.ml/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=2602275
I stand by every single comment that's been removed from this platform. Some of them were removed for good reason, one of them was a brain fart that I shouldn't have posted in the first place, but I'm happy to have y'all investigate my moderation history
ETA: If you read this, and then replied to a comment that's already been removed from a community I'm banned from, you're an idiot. I literally can't interact with you. Why not reply to this comment?
- I've been called a racist, a homophobe (???) and worst of all a liberal and a fascist (same thing apparently /s) all because I insisted that China isn't worth simping for.
  What I hate most about tankies is that they are the only true leftists and anybody who disagrees with them is just a poser and a liberal. Especially anarchists.
  
  For clarity, the thread you are talking about was filled with reasonable discussion that you doubled down on ignoring. The biggest thing people took issue with is your insistence on having a negative opinion towards something you in the same breath admitted you lacked real knowledge of how the PRC works. There's a difference between having an opinion based on strong investigation, and one made by vibes, something pointed out repeatedly to you.
  
  lol you're still at this after abandoning this thread? The one where you jumped in, whinged about "tankies", and then ignored nearly everything that I said to you while apologizing for not having the time to respond?
  Why are you now here and still whinging rather than back at that thread actually engaging? Why are you doubling down on this nonsense when you couldn't defend it directly against your targets of insult?
  Remember when you resorted to the homophobic remarks I predicted?
  
  The thing I hate about tankies is the same thing I hate about fascists, every other living thing on earth shares a common ancestor with them. I propose we exile them from the evolutionary tree, return them to the dirt they truly are so that they may be of some use to all living creatures.
- China pretending to be egalitarian is like Maga pretending to be pro-freedom.
- Thanks for posting that, I had no idea. Yikes. Time to find a new instance.
- I criticized the CCP on lemmy.ml and got called racist and got banned lmao
  Typical conservative sjw user /s
- You know people can see your moderation history right?
  
  I genuinely didn't. How do you check that? I want to see their excuse for banning me
- The Winnie the Pooh stuff is just completely made up by Western propaganda. Also, how hard is "yellow face is racist", when saying an Asian looks like a cartoon with yellow skin?
  
  People don't say Xi Jinping looks like Winnie the Pooh because Pooh is yellow, silly. They say it because he kinda looks like Winnie the Pooh
- Banned starman2112 @sh.itjust.works from the community 196@lemmy.blahaj.zone reason: Weirdo who defends genocide, because only young people are aginast it
  Thanks for the link and the laugh! 😂
  It's amusing to see the average user criticizing .ml while ignoring the bad behavior of others. LMAO!
  Weirdo, why im not surprised at all 😂
  
  Haha I also like reason: https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/#1-attacks-on-users-or-groups doxing is not ok on lemmy.world
  The thread is them saying they would punch nazis
  
  Hey, uhm, I know you're gonna react negatively to this, but could you answer me one simple yes or no question?
  Are you pro-Russian?
  
  Seems like whataboutism. Stay on topic.

your "boycott" was already happening naturally because (ayk) lemmy.ml's mods are insufferable
- We need to call on more servers to defederate with lemmy.ml if we want more people to join the platform, I dont want my friends' first experience of the platform to be a tankie post.
  
  100% of the people that I've recommended Lemmy to have admonished me for even so much as having mentioned it, citing the extremist rhetoric that calls for violent upheaval of all capitalist systems in the Western world.
  If I do a Google search (yuck I know), Lemmy.ml is the 4th hit, and the top hit for an actual instance. On it, the default view shows only Local posts so... yup, that's what a day-1 noob would see, is that instance making fun of capitalism especially the USA.
  From the actual top instance, Lemmy.World, those posts make up a significantly smaller percentage of the feed, but how would people know that? And they aren't nothing either.
  Also, blocking an instance from Lemmy does very little to curb the onslaught of toxicity from it: that merely mutes the communities hosted there, whereas the users are still free to harass you, triggering notifications, vote to influence the visibility of your content, etc. I was browsing All and made the mistake of replying to a comment in ChapoTrapHouse@hexbear.net one day, and then did that again in lemmygrad.ml, and each time received replies for WEEKS and WEEKS afterwards. I almost quit the fediverse entirely:-(. Browsing from All, how was I supposed to know what those communities, or instances, were all about - was that truly "my" fault for being ignorant? Either way, I almost left, so I understand why none of the irl people I mention Lemmy to will stay either.
  The people arguing against defederation are ignoring how users can be harassed here against their consent, and since no other alternatives are being made available on Lemmy to deal with the situation, defederation remains as the only option left.
  (Side-note: PieFed does offer several intriguing alternatives, including showing the sidebar text below every post so that someone knows what the community standards are, even arriving at the post from All rather than going through the community page first, and labelling certain instances with special text, e.g. for Beehaw it says:
  This post is hosted on beehaw.org which has higher standards of behaviour than most places. Be nice.
  with that link to the exact text offered by the instance admins describing their alternative and unusual moderation practices in their own words; and another is in labelling users to allow democratization of moderation rather than a binary remove/retain decision - although while all of these experimental features are awesome, PieFed's UI is quite a bit behind Lemmy's so not quite ready for the masses.)
  How do I block users from an instance of my choice?
  
  I'd rather have .ml scaring shitlibs away while they stay on block, best of both worlds.

Listen. Just fuckin listen to me. The moment I joined lemmy every enthusiast was singing praise to the fediverse and how it's easy to maintain the freedom of speach and yada yada yada. What it turned out to be is just constant quarrels between instances, defederations and crap like that while lemmy still fucking struggles to even become a mere shadow of reddit. I fucking hate reddit, I think spez should be covered in fire ants, but by god, looking at how insufferable most vocal lemmy users are, I may get back to reddit, probably as many other lemmy users already did.
- If it helps, most of this inter-instance drama comes from a surprisingly small group of people. I've blocked most of them (looks like I missed the OP here) and it's much quieter now. Looking at my block list, they're mostly from .world, but that could be due to the large population.
- It is easy to maintain freedom of speech on Lemmy. The idea that your instance can defederate from instances like Lemmy.ml, but everyone on Lemmy.ml can continue to post on their own server, and federate with any other given server by default is the entire point of federation and proof of concept that the fediverse is great for free speech. You’re under the impression that all Lemmy servers are supposed to be part of one big whole, but that’s not what the fediverse is for.
  You have to understand that “free speech” is a negative freedom and it doesn’t mean everyone has to listen to you. It just means nobody can force you not to speak.
- If you're unhappy why stay? Personally I'm happy with the Lemmyverse as it stands now — certainly happier than in the corporate lowest-common-denominator that is now Reddit.
  
  same logic as "if u hate america then leave".
  some people want to do their part to make the site (or country) better. they cant do that by giving up and going back to reddit. lemmy is great....but it could be better.
- I wonder how long until .world defederates from .world.
  
  inshallah
  
  .world is just where right-wingers go to pretend they're not right-wingers.
- The whole point of federation seems to be the ability to have villain instances that we all fight about. PVP social media
- just constant quarrels between instances, defederations and crap like that
  Sounds like you picked the wrong instance. The one I use doesn't defederate, from anyone. So when some drama about "should we defederate from some server because they are a big corp/because they are right wing/because they are tankies/because they allow loli/whatever, I basically get to watch and laugh knowing it's not going to effect me.
  
  🤨
- yep... with everything going on in life, globally and personally, I really can't think of anything i give fewer fucks about than lemmy in-fighting
  grow the fuck up
  
  Can’t be any worse than the linux rabbit holes on here over just mention of anything electronic. I’m not even arguing it’s like someone obsessed with garden tools and that’s all they can talk about.
  To them: Just give it a rest for a second please and talk about literally anything else going on in your life maybe even stick to the topic once in a while.
  It’s sad when fanboys make AI generated output seem more interesting and well adjusted.
- I'm mainly on Lemmy becuase it's open source and like the idea and I want it to flourish and therefore every defederation makes me sad :(

"We should defederate from everything which does not agree with my .world view and create a giant centralized echo chamber"!
Why the fuck does every .world user suddenly want Lemmy to be Reddit?
- Personally I would like to be able to talk to people with different views, in a civil manner. But Lemmy.ml doesn't seem to want that. If you post something that they don't like (even if it's a very moderate view and is expressed in a completely civil way) then they ban you. They seem to really hate moderate people.
  
  Most of the users saying this went around screaming the word Tankie all over the place on .ml.
  
  Moderate in what context? Moderate about Jews in 1938 Germany? Jews at some point in time before that? Black people in 1800s Amerikkka. Black people in today's amerikkka?
  
  Being banned means less of a problem for you - got a reason to ignore them and let them echo chamber however they want.
  
  every accusation is a confession.
- "Different world views" isn't a problem, the problem is users espousing repugnent "world views" and being assholes.
  Pretending like we have to put up with other users' repulsive, insane "ideas" and bullying behavior in our spaces is laughable. Bigots, fascists, and actual tankies can fuck off.
  
  You probably have some views that are repugnent to me, and vice versa. That's freedom of speech and political pluralism.
  being assholes.
  This though, I agree just ban that user.
  
  One of the instances believes Hamas are freedom fighters and the state of Israel has no right to exist.
  The other believes the inverse.
  Who is the fascist with repugnant world views?
- We should defederate from everything which does not agree with my .world view
  I will try to formulate this as well as I can:
  "One should not give a platform to instances which don't give a platform to others."
  Examples (based on hexbear):
  in some communities you get banned for voting the wrong way --> other instances don't practise banning for votes
  in some communities you get banned for being "reactionary" (that is, factual - Wikipedia would get banned just as quick) --> other instances only ban bigots, not people who politely disagree with locals
  in some communities, there is no obvious recourse to get a ban reviewed and reversed --> on other instances, there is a metacommunity about management or instructions about how to challenge a ban
  The result: certain instances are granted a platform by others, but aren't granting a platform to "foreigners" in return. And management habits in some places are straight from North Korea.
  Defederating from an echo chamber doesn't make your instance an echo chamber, unless you follow up by adopting the policies of the echo chamber you defederated from.
- Eh..... Lemmy is already a lot like reddit in the very beginning, just more extreme.
  I think a big problem with Lemmy is that even the large instances only have a few terminally online posters, so a lot of the communities get warped by those posters biases.
  Right now Hexbear is having a little internal conflict between the mods and some posters over the harassment of lgbtq and POC. The mods started out handing out temporary bans to offenders and then people started freaking out because no one was posting shit.
- Because Lemmy is fucking communist.
  
  Please go back to reddit.

I don't think the meme makes sense. The ml users don't seem to care how much other content is out there. They still participate as much as they'd like.

Join me
- Unfortunately it doesn't get rid of all their comments, like one's instance defederating would.
  
  yeah.
  I’m waiting until there is a deferated instance from lemmy.ml with downvotes disabled, until then, this is the best I can do.
  If you don’t mind downvotes enabled, try lemmy,cafe :)

Can someone inform me about what's wrong with lemmy.ml?
- The ml stands for Marxist-Leninist, and the admins are tankies
  
  oh, please not this shit again
- They are tankies
  
  I am thinking about tanks, explain.
  
  I’m confused. What are you saying? That word is thrown around against socialists. Tankies is often used to shut someone down and ignore what they're saying no matter how correct it is, or how little it has to do with Marxism.
- Lemmy.ml is the instance admin'd by the developers of Lemmy, who are Marxists. Lemmy.world is admin'd and moderated by liberals who generally are hostile towards Marxism, and have defederated from the 2 largest explicitly Marxist instances as a result.
  Users generally prefer Lemmy.ml or Lemmy.world depending on their opinions on Marxism and Communism vs liberalism and Capitalism. We are on Lemmy.world right now, which is going to have far more people agreeing with OP than if this was posted on Lemmy.ml, where users hold the opposite opinion, that Lemmy.world is a problem (generally).
- They do not support the Biden administrations genocide in Gaza.
- Their users often argue for authoritarian regimes and deny genocides.
  
  Whereas worldist don't deny genocide, they'll just say "it's unavoidable because both sides want it anyway so it doesn't really matter because you have to stay realistic so it's not much of a deal really nobody cares".
  I wish more people would defederate from .world lmao
- https://feddit.nl/post/16246531
  
  HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO MAKE PEOPLE GENOCIDALLY ANGRY AT THESE FUCKING ASIANS IF THEY KEEP DELETING MY BLOOD LIBEL???
- Sure. They're not far enough to the right for some of .world's centrists, who are very upset that some people from .ml are outspoken opponents of genocide. And as such, they have for the third time designated an instance to be the "tankie instance" that they desperately want .world to defederate from. .world's centrists will continue this until they have convinced the admins to defederate from .ml, at which point they will once again find a new instance to designate as "tankies" and start the pressure to remove it.
  They consider .world's neoliberalism to be the leftmost acceptable boundary of political thought, and will do anything to limit the discussion accordingly.
  
  Nah im just not a big fan of anyone who simps for putin and the taliban, it's really that simple. If they weren't a bunch of tankie edgelords I'd honestly consider making a hex account, some communities there are neat but not worth having to see all that shit lol

I like the idea of growing non-ml community, however, I wish larger instances do not block ML. Otherwise, they would just move to lemmy.ee or lemmy.one, just like how they moved from hexbear and grad to ml.
It is great tankies got their own place where they can be happy, but I really don't want to interact with them. I am emotional about issues they engage in, and emotional me is usually not the nicest version of myself.
Social media is one of the few ways I can relax for couple hours per week outside of my job, and I really don't want my social media experience to go full investigative journalism.
- They moved from hexbear? I thought .ml had got worse! I wish my instance would defederate from them, but it seemed so hard for them to do that from HB.
  
  Tbf, many of the users already had accounts on both, but yeah since "no means yes" to them, when HB got defederated from they simply switched to whatever would allow them to continue their harassment campaigns. Lemmygrad.ml users say the same as well.
  So if ML ever were to be defederated with, from let's say LW (Lemmy.World), they would continue forward with LW accounts rather than take the strong "suggestion" that they not.
  That's why I prefer the approach that PieFed is testing out: not outright blocking it but placing an icon next to users that e.g. are brand-new accounts, or a different icon for those who have more downvotes than upvotes.
- just like how they moved from hexbear and grad to ml
  Hexbear wasn't even federated to begin with. It's not like defederating from them made them move to lemmy.ml. lemmy.ml was always a leftist instance (though I feel like it has gotten somewhat poisoned towards the right with the reddit wave).
- lemm.ee is estonian so i think they'd have a harder time there

honestly, I eventually got fed up enough and instance blocked .ml on my account a couple weeks ago, and Ive barely noticed a difference. It was the bulk of lemmy right after it started to get some migration from Reddit, but it isnt nearly as essential these days already
- I noticed a change for the better.
- How do you block .ml on your account?
  
  Assuming that these settings are a universal part of lemmy and not instance specific, I click my name in the top right corner, select settings from the dropdown, and then there is a page with 2 tabs, one saying settings and a second that I can switch to called "blocks". In the blocks tab, I can view and add to lists of blocked users, communities, and instances. Just go to the instances drop down, and search "lemmy.ml" and click the option that appears to add it to the block list.
- Unfortunately we can still see their comments

I only follow some .ml communities for the only thing that instance is good for: Memes making fun of neoliberals
- I go there to encounter communists and discuss communism with them. I don’t mind talking to people I disagree with, and until they kick me out I’ll keep going there to talk to them.
  
  I don't mind talking to people I disagree with, but I don't enjoy being called names :P
  
  Good for you. I wish more people would talk to people they don’t immediately share values with.
- Too bad anyone who doesn't adhere to their specific definition of imperialism is a neoliberal in their view.
  Don't want to support a right winged authoritarian government that is actively engaging in imperialism......? What a lib.
- !flippanarchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
  
  thx! got more anarchist communities?

Now what's the juicy backstory to this drama?
- Lemmy.ml is one of the biggest instances that serves up tankies, there was some conversation going on the .world admin thread regarding the federation issues about why not just defederate/"not fix it" and it was brought up they have a lot of content including one of the biggest Linux communities.
  Thus this meme was born lol
- ive noticed several communities being moved off of .ml because of overacting mods shitting their own beds (my fav movies comm being one of them). kinda the whole point of the 'verse. i also noticed a recent sync in-congruence from .ml to .world which indicates some kind of funny business... purposeful or not
  the locals at .ml seem to have this notion that theyre too big to fail, which is patently not true considering the tiny size of the fediverse overall.
  id recommend users utilize a 'home' instance thats more of an onramp than local-content curation... (https://moist.catsweat.com/ being in this category) they tend to not defederate from any instances so users can easily switch subscriptions when shit goes sideways in the content-heavy servers without making new accounts.
  
  i also noticed a recent sync in-congruence from .ml to .world which indicates some kind of funny business... purposeful or not
  This isn't unique to world or ml. There's some wonky shit going on with federating across Lemmy at the very least, maybe other parts of the fediverse that I don't use. On walledgarden there are at least half a dozen instances that are falling in and out of sync with our communities. No one on either side of the connection seems to have an answer for what caused this behavior or how to correct it. Talking to some other instances, we aren't alone.
  The lemmyverse crawler/site has also shown some odd behavior with communities and instances disappearing and reappearing seemingly at random.
  I don't think anything malicious is being done by any of the instances or admins in regards to federation delays.
- OP is a nazi in the slow process of walling themselves off to everything but the furthest right most racist social circle possible and .ml is the worst now that hexbear and lemmygrad are gone. It won't be enough and the cycle will just continue if they get their way.
  
  If that's your argument then I assume the "nazi" accusation is just bs. Lemmygrad and Hexbear were full of extremists.
- Not believing the US propaganda apparatus is thoughtcrime
  
  Damn, never noticed I couldn't say stuff like "the US is a shitshow" over here. The agents on my door were always so nice as well!
  Buggers, guess I'll have to buy some Apple stocks now and pleasure myself over a picture of Abraham Lincoln.

Another day of .world reddit migrants thinking de-federating or boycotting .ml will change literally anything.
- It will. It will change which instance they shriek "tankie!" at.
  
  It is funny being one of the few somewhat rightwing people on here and getting called a tankie

lemmy.ml users reaction:

https://sh.itjust.works/c/meanwhileongrad
Here is a nice community that keeps track of their bullshit
- /r/shitshitredditsayssays
- Lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/yepowertrippinbastards also keeps track of the bullshit the mods do.
  
  Most of the posts there call out OPs for thier bullshit. It's hilarious. There's like one or two instances that actually have a mod do something bad.
  
  What happens when the mod of that community overreaches?
  
  !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com
- Is my instance de-federated if this community is “completely empty”?

my instance has been defederated from .ml for ages and i can personally confirm fedi is still fun here :) take that as you will

ml makes sense on the fediverse. That's kind of the whole point. Same with Linux.

How I interact with lemmy.ml:
If I see a post I want to comment on, I comment on it. I don't give a fuck what instance it's on.
If I want to post, I select the relevant community with the most subscribers. I don't give a fuck what instance it's on.
If I can't comment or post there, because I was banned for criticizing a dictatorship, I select the next biggest community.
(This happens about 50% of the time, cause I'm now banned on most .ml communities, simply for posting common sense opinions.)

Why would you want to create an echo chamber? I genuinely don't get it, it's the internet, if you encounter an opinion you disagree with, literally just close the tab and it's gone
- Most people on here don't mind being exposed to different viewpoints. If you ask me, even some - or even most, IDK - tankies are fine to talk to, even argue with, as they are usually civil.
  The problem is that there are a lot of users on the *.ml instances who are not interested in debate, they just keep repeating the same 2-3 slogans over and over again in smug superiority as a reply to everything, and mods ban people randomly the same way.
  When you meet some users who reply "you are misled by Western media" to anything you say as a final and incontrovertible argument, that's not a good faith debate I'm willing to participate in.
  The problem is not the differing opinions, but the differing norms for polite conversation and good faith arguments.
  
  just keep repeating the same 2-3 slogans over and over again in smug superiority
  Sounds like most of political/ideological Lemmy to me.
- I said to grow communities, even across instances, just not on .ml. Cutting off a toxic instance because their admins refuse to reign in the worst of them is not creating an echo chamber.

We need to grow the !linuxphones@lemmy.ca alternative more!
- TIL. Thanks.
  That was one of the few .ml communities I actually missed when I defederated from them last year and couldn't find a replacement for. Subscribed!
  
  I will try to post more there ;)

The irony of a community promoting socialism while also instabanning anyone for the slightest wiff of criticism is just chef's kiss peak representation of why their system is doomed.
If you can't withstand the slightest nudge of criticism how are you even going to attempt to provide a governance system based on any kind of economic directive? If Marx could see what you guys have become he'd personally wipe his ass with your lame ml instance
- Seems like the ultimate nature of leftist ideology is that there are too many cooks in the kitchen, and everyone has a slightly differing philosophy that they refuse to budge on. So they fight eachother instead of the existential fascist threat.
  
  Leftists infighting! That's crazy!
- I sounded like you until I went offline and learned about Anarchism, anarcha-communism, intersectionality, Mutualism and Solidarity Economies. You might get your feelings hurt by online ML's, but that's not the real world. I dont agree much or even at all with some ML's, and others I date. And I give less than zero fucks about what any .world neolib has to say about anything, given how much their system more than anything else has colonized and raped the planet and her peoples.
  
  I'm all for anarcho-communism. I studied it in college. I don't know what the execution looks like though in practice but I find it appealing.
- this is just stupid... socialism wont work because online moderation is hard?? sigh... so tedious
  
  Well. If the most ardest proponents can't hold it to the fire then how are the rest of us normies supposed to come on board? Clearly there is a disconnect between praxis and ideology
- Lemmy.ml communism is mostly just a facade for spreading propaganda to useful idiots. If they were real communists I'd have some respect for them.
- It's because socialism does not stand up to outside pressures. It always turns towards benevolent totalitarianism as a method of defending itself from bad actors.
  
  "benevolent"

Can't? I already personally blocked them months ago.

You folks are blowing this way out of proportion.
- Are we? Check the mod log
- how else could they be righteous?
- Go criticize China or Russia in .ml and see for yourself. We'll wait.

I feel like I'm missing something important here as a simple fediverse user. I don't really care about the politics, I just made an account during the first large Reddit exodus and choose an instance I thought would persist. I also made a second account on kbin.social, but it looks pretty dead as a project.
I never noticed anything described in this thread, but I'm subbed to many communities across the fediverse...
- Bro same. I once asked why people seem to dislike .ml users, a genuine question, and got downvoted lol
- Yep... Same here mate 😇

Yeah do this,
So after we can finally talk about mods on LW, being pro Israel and moderating comments against IDF.
Oh ? That will not happen ? 😱

The way I see it if they get defederated a lot of the people will migrate away from it and it won't be "too big to fail" anymore
- The best way to keep them all contained would be to not defederate but encourage everyone on other instances to add it to their instance mute list so you don't have to interact with them.

As a lemmy.ml account holder... I'm a bit out of the loop. I'm not tied to any single instance and can move to a new one (any recommendations?), but what does ml do that's bad? Honest question, promise, I don't follow this stuff very much
- Same experience as you. Always thought it would be better to be hosted by MLs than anarchocapitalists, megalomaniacs and whatever one would call Elon Musk. Seems like internal drama. I do see now some examples in this thread where for instance the french word for late gets removed, but not really a problem for me, actually it's a bit refreshing.
- If you are not engaging in political posts or are not a hardcore liberal, you'd be hard pressed to find a problem.
  
  I'm pretty far left, but I wouldn't say "liberal", more like "this hexbear place seems pretty good"

We should leave the m federated on most instances as a honeypot for them. This way they don’t join other instances.
It’s like when you give a kid a video game controller without batteries.
- That would only work if we labelled them so that new users are aware.
  It's like handing your kid a chainsaw but forgetting to empty it of gasoline first.
  I prefer the analogy of porn though: I am not advocating that it not exist, just that it be properly labelled so that it is fully consensual for someone to receive it - b/c otherwise their only alternative to avoid that (e.g. while at work) is to leave Lemmy altogether.

The beauty of the fediverse is that you can make it how you want. You can self select into a instance that best reflects your individual values. You can block what you want. You can see publicly what the instance and moderators are doing.
Why would anyone be mad about that?
- They want us to be as angry as they are lmao

I wish I could. But as a mod, it very much helps to leave all people and instances/communities unblocked.
- My sympathies - I had to do that on Reddit and it was an enormous relief when I finally stepped down and was able to block a particularly onerous troll (who was mostly fairly helpful to the community itself, just singling me out as the only mod to receive his ire - I had offered to make him one but he turned it down). I hope you are able to preserve your sanity, b/c your mental health is important too, as well as all those that you protect from people's toxicity (from whatever instance it may derive from). :-)
  
  Yeah, It’s a mostly thankless “job” but it’s good to feel that I’m helping to build something. And at least so far- the trolls are mostly tolerable.
  Thanks so much for the response and kind words.

Posting this to lemmy.world, lol
- Right? The gensiders whining that their fav gensider lost are gonna give lessons about censorship it's pathetic X)
  
  What do you mean by "gensider"?

posted on *.world

Banned and reported troll /s
I did create a luanti (formally Minetest) community
!luanti@lemmy.zip

I'm out of the loop, what's going on?
- We have to fight ourselves instead of conservatives because someone's left isn't the right shade of blue.
  
  I see what you're saying, but the community on lemmy.ml are the ones who start infighting everywhere.
  
  More like, fighting against fake blue. If you're praising China or Russia's authoritarian version of communism, then you're just conservatives without a capitalist economic system.
- Lemmy.ml spreads a lot of propaganda/disinformation, has opaque and questionable moderation, and regularly advocates for violence.
- Cringe meta drama. Some people really want this place to be reddit.

Daily lemmy.world whingefest
- Couldn't care less about lemmy.world or a boycott. This post has the same energy as people in comment sections publicly announcing they are blocking someone.
  Do what you want. No one cares.
  
  Do what you want. No one cares.
  Funny, I see quite a few butthurt ML people in this thread, so it would seem some people do care

I see the liberals who got upset at bluesky being a "tankie echo chamber" are right at home on lemmy.world where they year for nothing but a Reddit 2.0 where 90% of the content is fed through a handful of professional content astroturfers or bot accounts linked to three-letter agencies.

Is this why people keep making posts saying "Lemmy doesn't have enough content"? Are those people blocking instances and acting pikachu?

I like being able to block instances, without my instance doing it for me, lemm.ee is pretty good about that, like yeah, I blocked lemmygrad and hexbears but still have the option to see their stuff without switching accounts
- The problem with such a "block", applied by the base Lemmy web UI or an app like Voyager that merely applies the same, is that it only mutes communities - which is basically the same as unsubscribing from each one individually (except it does save you some time, and affects newly created ones, and also visibility while browsing the All feed).
  The actual users from those instances can still harass you, making comments, triggering notifications, voting on your content, etc. I made the mistake of replying to a comment in ChapoTrapHouse@hexbear.net and another one somewhere in Lemmygrad.ml and each time I received notifications for WEEKS and WEEKS afterwards, long after I stopped responding.
  I almost quit the Fediverse entirely as a result. That is not what I signed up for. Btw browsing by All doesn't show the sidebar of ChapoTrapHouse, nor of hexbear.net. How was I supposed to know!? What I did see was the sidebar of such places as Lemmy.World and Discuss.Online which is... well, more than a little different focus (remember the human and all of that).
  Like porn, I think such content as is in ChapoTrapHouse@hexbear.net should be properly labeled so that people aren't taken by surprise, going in there unawares. THEY can do whatever they want, but why are WE federating that content to the entire world - without such a label having been applied?
  
  Yeah, it's genuinely a problem when you just want to not see entire instances based on the userbase they culminate. I wish blocking instances would actually block the users associated with it, but alas.
  I've taken to blocking everyone @lemmy.ml on sight since every time I see them it's some vitriolic rant about how trans people are class traitors or some other weird shit I don't wanna see, but it is a bit of extra effort and annoyance each time a new one pops up.
  
  At least with hexbear you should be able to stop any further responses by stating within the comment that you wish to disengage from the conversation.
  https://hexbear.net/code_of_conduct :
  Any discussions may be opted out of by disengaging
  However, do not add anything else as hexbear's disengage rule only applies if you don't use it to have the last word in the matter.
  Also, while some hexbear posts may sometimes contain nudity (though I have never seen any pornography on there and it's probably not even allowed), it should be labeled as such. Anything potentially triggering or unwanted should have content warnings in the title.

yes, please continue this trend isolating yourselves from the fediverse
lemmy.world is the most toxic instance and every insanely bloodthirsty, racist, misogynistic, or otherwise vile take seems to come from your lot

.ml and .world are a classic war in lemmy

On the upside, every time a .world community has these anti-federation wreckers cry and scream because they got banned for some repugnant views (but by design of federation they can just join a new site) I just block the whole community.
Might not be defederation but you're only turning these Comms into lame Reddit discourse farms that does the opposite of your evil plan.

Oh no! Anything but the briar patch! 😂

Im already blocked on many of their subs. so I'm boycotting and I don't have a choice
- I think you can block instances now.

ITT: Excuse me. Are you the Judean People's Front?
F*** off! We're the People's Front of Judea

Oh no! Anyway...

Free speechers on .world can't handle interacting with any dissenting opinions to the left of the Bush Administration.
- no, I can't handle being banned for pointing out that the uigurs exist and are being genocided by a certain dictatorship rn

I block everything from .ml because I rather not be part of Russian or China-nese psyops.
- Psyops aren't targetting Lemmy lol, its too niche

grabs some popcorn

Something about .ml and MLs in general is that they really just aren't that large a group. If we want larger communities, Reddit is still much bigger than Lemmy. If we want a flawed ally in politics, progressive liberals outnumber Leninists and are far less likely to deliberately betray us. (That's why MLs always equate Liberalism with fascism; if people can ally with Liberals MLs have basically nothing they can bring to a coalition, and so they can't seize power.)
- progressive liberals outnumber Leninists and are far less likely to deliberately betray us.
  Progressive liberals eventually realize the conflict between capitalism and progress and drop the liberalism. Then they either check out or they join whatever group is organizing in their area. Ideology is secondary to building power and actually improving people's lives.
  That’s why MLs always equate Liberalism with fascism; if people can ally with Liberals MLs have basically nothing they can bring to a coalition, and so they can’t seize power
  The reason liberalism is equated with fascism is that fascism is a failure mode of liberalism; as the contradictions of capitalism grow, liberals either stop supporting capitalism and thus are no longer liberals or drop any pretense of freedom for the working class and apply methods typically reserved for colonies at home to protect capitalism.
- Famously loyal and trustworthy liberals will never deliberately betray you lmao. Just hope they never find out if you have to break a law the fascists draw up to protect yourself or others 🚔🚔🚔
  And hope that you're not part of whichever group they're throwing under the bus to appease the fascists either.
  
  Liberals are trustworthy in the sense that whatever progressive policies they are capable of enacting will be done so with the assurance that grandma's access to medication will not be impeded.
  Communists are trustworthy in the sense that they absolutely intend to burn everything down to reshape the world in their image, and no sacrifice made in accomplishing that is too great.
  Kind of obvious why people support a coalition with liberals more, huh?
- If we want a flawed ally in politics, progressive liberals outnumber Leninists and are far less likely to deliberately betray us.
  Who are 'you' in this equation? A boat dealership owner?
  
  Pretty much anyone on the left.
  Note: Tankies aren't leftists.
  Note 2: MLs are tankies.
- Unless you are a diehard right-winger, Liberals will always be more likely to betray you than anyone on the left. The causality is backwards here, liberals will always side with fascists over the left, thus they are identified as moderate-fascists. Just like how the Democrats want nothing more than to just be polite Republicans.
  
  anyone on the left
  Tankies aren't leftists. Even assuming your statement is true, it doesn't matter.
  liberals will always side with fascists over the left
  Spanish Civil War.
  thus they are identified as moderate-fascists
  That's not how being a political ally works. That's just such a stupid take.

Sure you can block them. It's really easy
- It's really not - all the instance blocking does it mute those communities, but the users can still harass you, triggering notifications, vote on your content, etc. I made the mistake of replying to a comment in ChapoTrapHouse@hexbear.net and received replies for WEEKS and WEEKS afterwards, then did it again on lemmygrad.ml and again received replies for WEEKS and WEEKS - my consent mattered not at all. I found both of those posts by browsing "All" btw, so I had no chance to see the sidebar and had no clue what I was getting myself into, either with regard to the communities or the instances they were on.
  I almost left Lemmy entirely because of that, and so I don't blame others like the 100% of irl people that I've mentioned Lemmy to, who then give me dirty looks for having suggested it, b/c of what they see when they visit with a day-1 account. Probably some website somewhere accessible by a straight-up Google search specifically directs them to Lemmy.ml as the flagship instance - which it was at some point even if no longer - whereupon the default search is Local so... yeah, they would absolutely see all the political extremist rhetoric.
  It is possible to block users from lemmy.ml, but it's not so easily accomplished: https://piefed.social/post/307636.
  
  Ah. I understood "block" as "don't show that content". If you've already touched poo, then yeah it's probably hard to get off your hand.

Nah we're fine

This whole thread in a nutshell:
https://media.tenor.com/2TkIn9nxf10AAAAd/rick-and-morty-jerry-smith.gif

I boycotted them months back. I came to lemmy to get away from reddit mods.
- Yes, Lemmy was famously founded to get away from moderation.
  😂
  
  This comment would get you banned in some places
- Funny to post that on a lemmy.world account lol

If anyone wants to go further and actually block the instance, it's really quite difficult to impossible from base Lemmy but it can be accomplished, as described further in this post.