Elon Musk projection on the left
Elon Musk projection on the left
24 comments
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I don’t really know, but I feel like stuff like deliberately doing a Nazi salute is specifically to solicit people to call him a Nazi so that then he can say they’re crazy because the accusation is so outlandish.
It also takes attention away from the more substantive things he’s done. It’s not illegal and doesn’t really hurt anybody to do a Nazi salute, so in one way it’s a perfect thing to get people jabbering about.
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waaaay too much overthinking on this one.
it was a display to the in-group (he wants to be adored) and a troll. for this particular asshole, there is more than enough human bandwidth to co-process his dedication to deep familial racism and his self dealing. he is not a complex person - a child in an adult body.
doesn’t really hurt anybody to do a Nazi salute
really? are you really going to stand by that statement? hate symbols, when used in their intended way, cause a great deal of fucking hurt.
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really? are you really going to stand by that statement? hate symbols, when used in their intended way, cause a great deal of fucking hurt.
Oh come on, you know what I mean, you're just taking the opportunity to have a performative holier-than-thou "gotcha" moment.
Yes, words and symbols are incredibly powerful. Tim Snyder talked about the underappreciated role of symbols in extending the reach of fascism into people's day-to-day lives. Stickers in German shop windows, yellow stars, Nazi pins. Trump flags and red hats are obvious extensions, but then a lot more interesting I think is the role face masks started to play in defining an obvious "with us or against us" sign that people have to decide which side of they want to be on, and engaging the everyday rank and file in the actions of enforcing "you're with us or you're going to get yelled at or maybe even physically attacked" as a new model for society. It's very dangerous. It's what forms and strengthens the linkage between what the leaders say, far away, on TV or the internet or distantly one time at a rally, with what people's day-to-day actions are in enforcing the dictates of the leader within the community.
I do think there's a small, small contingent of people who will be rallied to the cause by overtly Nazi symbolism. I think the main danger, though, is in normalizing overtly evil symbology within the discourse, and breaking in the pathways of enforcement at an individual level. It starts with "well of course you won't complain when I use racial slurs or advocate violent immigration policies RIGHT? RIGHT?" and then getting physically menacing. Once that precedent is established, they can continue into flexing their special-category-of-person nature by showing Nazi signs, or advocating for rape, or otherwise daring people to disagree with the terrible things they're saying, but knowing that they risk being placed in the "other" category and open themselves to attack if they do.
So yes, this stuff is dangerous. I'm saying no one was physically or financially or in any other way directly harmed when Elon did the Nazi salute, unlike some of the other activities they like to do. I'm not saying that the overall symbology that it forms a part of is harmless. Hopefully now we're on the same page. Yes?
Overthinking is sometimes a good thing. If you understand what's going on, you're in a better position to react to it. I more or less agree with your initial statements. He's just trolling. Probably in his mind that's how he interprets it also. But I'm saying the reasons why that is an effective thing for him to do are worth some thinking about.
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I get where you are coming from. I was genuinely surprised at your comment as many others I have seen from you have been thoughtful or usefully provocative. my primary point was to reinforce that harm happens on so many different layers - socially and personally. hate symbolism is a rot that spreads quickly unless pushed back on in the strongest social terms.
your reply stands on its own so not much else for me to comment on there. happy to see you engaged.
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Yeah, I get that. It's definitely not harmless. I was just trying to contrast it against all the illegal or directly overly violent stuff that they're doing, maybe I was a little too quick in the way I was trying to say it.
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Nope, not reading a novel defending nazi salutes as "harmless".
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I'm with you. Philip the bucket needs to GTFO of here with whatever culture propaganda they're pushing.
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Lol yeah fuck that guy
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i found the comment you're replying to via a search for "propagand" and i was like "what did ptb do this time?" and like... i don't love being on your side but i think you probably got this one right.
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Yeah. I can see plenty of reasons why some reasonable person might disagree with me about all kinds of things that I say, but this is 100% just objectively someone trying real hard to pretend I am saying something I'm not so they can have a made-up freakout about it. I don't even know. Lemmy needs some sort of catchphrase like "tumblr reading comprehension" to apply to that behavior, because it sure is a popular thing to do here.
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I know, I know. You're just happy you found someone you can pretend is an enemy, and you don't want to lose it. Certain types of people really love that, it's their favorite thing.
Since you don't want to read a novel, let me call your attention to:
So yes, this stuff is dangerous. I’m saying no one was physically or financially or in any other way directly harmed when Elon did the Nazi salute, unlike some of the other activities they like to do. I’m not saying that the overall symbology that it forms a part of is harmless.
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24 comments