Men that carried out terrorist attack on concert in Russia received funds from Ukraine.
cross-posted from: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/4112192
Men that carried out terrorist attack on concert in Russia received funds from Ukraine.
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Putin is not a leftist.
lol who said he was? we'd all love a second bolshevik revolution and to see him dead or sweeping the streets of Tobolsk, but at the moment he's poking the eye of a worse hegemon.
So would you have cheered on hitler’s germany or japan because they were against the US?
The enemy of my enemy is not my friend.
Tl;dr?
I don’t know how to read.
I generally see stalin as a liberal who didn’t go far enough, but I’m willing to entertain your arguments.
I guess you passed the nickname check -_-
Thanks🙏
😂
No investigation, no right to speak
no in that instance you would cheer on the u.s. (albeit critically) for siding against the nazis and fascists
nazi germany was worse than the US was at the time lmao what are you smoking?
uh the fucking holocaust? stalin shouldn't have stopped at berlin but the colonizing the cracker empires were doing at the time wasn't nakedly exterminationist
what the fuck is wrong with you?
The US and england were at war with Germany before the extermination plan (the final solution) of the Holocaust started though. If you think the US entered WW2 to save the poor Jews (that they refused to allow into the US as refugees) from the Holocaust you are more propagandized by US bullshit than I am. That was not why they started fighting WW2.
Nothing is wrong with me other than that i don’t think Putin’s Russia is worth defending by leftists. Call me crazy.
i'm not defending it, it's useful to us for now but as soon as there's a power vacuum they'll be a primary enemy.
There’s nothing useful to leftists about one capitalist fighting another capitalist. Smdh.
if they were on equal footing, no, but anything that undermines the greatest force for anticommunism is good in that regard.
you're really going to sit here and say a weaker america isn't better for the world and for our movements?
So I’m sure you were neutral on the invasion of Iraq, since that’s just two capitalists fighting each other. Palestine and Israel is just two capitalists fighting each other.
The ultra path you are on is one that leads to nihilism
Russia is not imperialist like The USA and NATO empire is though, and he is an ally of China and is helping Africa develop. That makes him hundreds of time better than Washington
And if the US empire were to collapse over night, Putin would step right in to fill the same exact role. It is not better, it is literally exactly the same. It is all just competing global power politics of different segments of the global ruling class.
Note if China were to become the world hegemon, that would be an improvement compared to the US because they actually have a political ideology other than hoarding wealth and power.
It wouldn’t be better but it wouldn’t be worse either. This is a unmaterialist take. Russia doesn’t have the global spanning military empire America took a literal century to build.
The unmaterialist take is to not realize that were russia to attain the hegemonic position in global geo-politics it wouldn’t build bases in exactly the same way.
Bourgeois Nation-states serve capitalism. Whichever one is globally the most powerful gets the funding from global corporations to protect their interests globally. They don’t care if that is the US or russia. They’ll use either one for that aim.
You understand that America built its huge expansive empire before the invention of the hypersonic missile correct? There is not going to be another empire in the way America did it literally ever. America may very well be the only nation in the history of humanity to have built its empire literally uncontested by any other nation on earth. Every other nation was blown to bits and the ones that weren’t blown to bits were abysmally poor, and even the ones that were abysmally poor were also blown to bits. Could Russia figure out a way to build something like America a different way? Maybe, but that’s pretty unlikely.
This is all hypothetical and speculative. What is actually happening right now? We can't just assume without evidence that it would be the same.
And if the US empire were to collapse over night, Putin would step right in to fill the same exact role.
Being a materialist is when you subscribe to great man theory. How would the Russian Federation (because Putin is a 71 year old man and presumably wouldn't live to see a Pax Russiana) step right in to fill the same exact role? How would Russia take on the role of NATO or the IMF/WB, Western tools of imperialism that Russia isn't even a part of? At least people crying about so-called Chinese imperialism could gesture towards the BRI as the Chinese equivalent of the IMF. What the fuck does Russia have?
It is not better, it is literally exactly the same.
Tell that to the people of Latin America or the people of Africa or literally anywhere else in the world that is not Europe. There's a reason why people in AES support Russia and people in the other AES go around waving Russian flags as they tell the French to gtfo. The fact of the matter is Russia doesn't have the legacy of colonialism like the West has, and people have long memories.
In Africa, Russia has always played an anti-imperialist role, even going back to Tsarist Russia under Nicholas II (yes, that Nicholas) when they supported Ethiopia against Italian imperialism, ensuring that Ethiopia was the only African state (Liberia was a US proxy state, so they don't count) to be a free and sovereign African state during the scramble for Africa. And this was Russia under some shitty anti-Semitic tsar. I don't even need to go over what Russia as part of the Soviet Union did on behalf of the people of Africa. Westerners enslave Africans for more than 4 centuries and have the typical Western arrogance to think that Wagner Group killing African civilians or some Russian diplomat being anti-Black is somehow equivalent.
Again, radlibs getting mad at hypotheticals
It is the definition of reactionary to cheer on any enemy of your enemy no matter who they are.
I don’t cheer on nazis when they blow some government building up in the US, like in oklahoma city for example, just because i am against the policies of the US.
Segments of the global bourgeoisie fighting each other for global control through various bourgeois nation-states is not something that is beneficial for communists at all.
So was stabilizing Syria and destroying ISIS imperialist? Is the invasion of Ukraine to destroy NATO-backed fascist militants imperialist?
I've heard this shit from you westoids forever and you're always wrong. Anti-imperialism isn't "enemy of my enemy". It's being part of the actual global coalition that destroys the hegemony, alongside AES nations.
No you see materialism is when you make broad stroke assumptions and live by hard and fast rules instead of taking events on a case by case basis and see how they interact with each other and history.
I disagree, Russia’s foreign policy has been way better than the USA and they have not participated in the same predatory lending practices that the USA has with developing nations. If the USA were to collapse, Russia would most likely undergo a revolution since the U.S. fascists wouldn’t be able to back the struggling bourgeoisie like it has done in the past.
Also saying that Russia would take US place is very naive. Russia doesn’t have the same level of alliance the US has with Europe. A disappearing USA will just make the global south stronger
Edit: Also Russia is an ally of China and is helping Africa. Moreover, Russia is now killing Nazis. Therefore, supporting Russia against Nazis and NATO is the right move. Right now Russia is hundreds of times better than the USA. Once the USA disappears we’ll worry about what’s next
i think russia doesn't have the navy or globe-spanning military bases to do that?
They would if they got in a position to build them. (i.e. if the US stopped hegemonic control of the global order and allowed russia to do so)
And if grandma had a mustache she would be grandpa, you really sound exactly like a reddit lib now.
Ohhh noooooooooo. Don’t care.
🤷♂️
The only reason America was able to build an empire of its size is because it was in the radically fortunate position of being the only developed nation that wasn’t bombed to shit after world war 2. It was uncontested in its imperial efforts for pretty much the entire duration of it too. The odds of this same thing happening for Russia is 0. It might not ever happen again in human history.
I mean, it occurred in various historical conditions for countries including Portugal, Spain, The Netherlands, England, and the US.
I would not be super surprised if there another imperial empire after the US. Though that may not be for hundreds of years, as the turnover rate of empires seems to be slowing down. But who knows what geo-political impacts future technologies will have on global power relations.
Putin would step right in to fill the same exact role
Russia unlike the US doesn't have the corpse of the British Empire and 50% of the world's industrial capacity to piggyback off like the US did after WW2
Empires do not all have the same capacity, means, or internal structures that can guarantee a one-to-one replacement theory like you just asserted
The idea that the Ruble could ever become the equivalent of the US petrodollar is anti-historical and anti-materialist and if that won't happen how on earth would Russia dominate global capitalism the way the US currently does?
And if the US empire were to collapse over night, Putin would step right in to fill the same exact role.
We aren’t dealing with hypotheticals. We’re dealing with material reality as it is right now.
Note if China were to become the world hegemon, that would be an improvement compared to the US because they actually have a political ideology other than hoarding wealth and power.
China is probably Russia’s most important ally.
What is a leftist exactly? Is the guy a communist? No. Is he allied to communists? Yes. Is he fighting imperialism? Yes.
Is he fighting imperialism?
only by accident. don't forget the critical part of critical support. the enemy of our enemy isn't our good friend.
It’s not an accident, and intentions don’t matter only actions. Radlibs never cease their mind reading moralizing
sorry i meant accident as in circumstance. he's by no means a reliable friend.
Tell that to the millions of Syrians he saved from western backed jihadist fascism.
He’s the foremost anti-imperialist force on Earth currently, adopting the stances of KJU with the military and geopolitical might to back it up. Meanwhile China putts around trying to placate the west still, and meanwhile half the global south is run by open compradors. Why don’t you focus your ire on our enemies who are many instead of our foremost friend in a small group of friends?
Why don’t you focus your ire on our enemies who are many instead of our foremost friend in a small group of friends?
what fucking part of critical
You are forgetting the “support” part of critical support
perfect. This is so common seeing people pile on the criticism instead of focusing on the support
no i'm not. russia isn't our primary contradiction unless you're queer and live there, it's useful to the rest of us for now, and it's on the right side of any conflict it has with nato, but that's as far as it goes.
Why don’t you focus your ire on our enemies who are many instead of our foremost friend in a small group of friends?
This is where I have to say the CRITICAL part of critical support has to come into play. Russia is a nation with a long history that encompasses many eras and ideologies. Putin on some level has been able to posit the idea that Russias imperial, Soviet, and modern history is one long unbroken history of the Russian people as a whole in a way that should be extremely sus to us as communists. Putin is an ally of the global south yes, but his commitments on a base level ideologically can only be described as liberal and that’s obviously a problem that should be brought up. You can’t tell people to just ignore Russia and its actions (good or bad doesn’t matter) when they’re one of the superpowers of the world.
Also literally everything that has ever happened is due to circumstance. We are materialists here right?
You really don't have to hand it to Putin.
You do
Okay after reading your other arguments I will hand it to him that he does anti-imperialism, but the ridiculous reactionary domestic Russian politics are hard to excuse
I agree you do, but only so far.
He is not allied with communists let’s not get ahead of ourselves here.
He is allied with AES nations such as the DPRK, that’s a fact
I said this in another comment sorry for double posting. Keep in mind is entire career he tried to ally himself with the west up to the point they literally went to war with him. Putin does not get a pass just because he’s allied with with these nations, we need to come at this from the position of “the least he could do is have good relations with these nations”
Putin is not a communist so his actions, while much better than the US, should be seen under the lens of right wing and be criticized as such when applicable.
STOP MORALIZING. STOP MIND READING. LOOK AT REALITY
You gonna actually point anything out? or just keep typing in caps because it makes your non point look better? What are you even saying at this point. It shouldn’t be out of hand to admit Putin has done good things, but we should be skeptical of a guy who tried to join the Nazi club for his entire career. He doesn’t get a cookie for having what should be considered normal relations to the global south you fucking ding dong.
i just want you to use historical materialism evenly instead of haphazardly and drop your western programming of russiaphobic exceptionalism. For Putin and only Putin we mind read and judge based on hypotheticals.
You’re barking up the wrong tree, I’m easily one of the most openly pro SMO people on this site.
drop your western programming of russiaphobic exceptionalism.
Literally where?
For Putin and only Putin we mind read and judge based on hypotheticals.
Again literally where?
sorry, I thought I was talking to the other person and got mixed up. Lots of comments.
I'm just saying, the mind reading and hypotheticals about Putin gets real old from supposed "materialists" and "realists" on most other subjects. China and Deng did join the Nazi club that you're shitting on Putin for trying to join, they didn't join NATO militarily but damn did they sell out big time and help the US and the west a lot, that shit with Kissinger is embarrassing too. I try to see the bigger picture because maybe they had to do it. Putin was leading a defeated and looted Russia, he was groveling because Russia was weak and he had no choice. Now he no longer does that.
I see your point, but I will say you cannot hold China and Russia to the same standard. You’re absolutely correct that China has done some sus shit over the years but to say
Putin was leading a defeated and looted Russia, he was groveling because Russia was weak and he had no choice.
Okay I understand and somewhat agree, because you’re right Russia had been essentially taken over by the west and we shouldn’t downplay the role Putin played in fixing it, but Russia was already developed as a nation and already had somewhat of a roadmap to a developed future thanks to the Soviets. Now compare that with China who for the longest time was one of if not THE poorest nations on the planet before cooperating with the west, had no roadmap other than a history of dynastic control, being invaded by the west, invasion of Japan, civil war. Just an extremely harsh situation for the Chinese that is much more comparable to the Soviet experience than it is to modern Russias experience. It’s much more understandable for China to want to cooperate with the west than modern Russia would. The Chinese situation is more like the Soviets taking lend lease materials than it is comparable to modern Russia groveling to be let into the imperialism club.
Now he no longer does that.
He did it until he couldn’t anymore because he’s a lib and has always been a lib at heart.
This is from the Tucker Carlson interview. When asked about NATO expansion after the USSR ended, Putin says that NATO has no reason to expand because the Russia economy matches the interests of the US. Putin says "We are bourgeois now as you are. We are a market economy and there is no communist party with power."
That doesn't contradict who you're replying to. This statement is literally true, all communists I've ever talked to know this statement is true. You can probably count the number of communists who think Putin is secretly trying to recreate the Soviet Union on one hand.
he'll hit the button to reanimate lenin any day now
Fighting imperialism? Lmao. He’s a billionaire oligarch exactly like any US ghoul.
I love articles about his networth.
Like this one. https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/28/business/vladimir-putin-wealth-sanctions/index.html
Nobody knows but it's definitely gorzilliom dollars.
They do the same with Castro and any pushback is met with “is it really that hard to imagine a dictator hoarding wealth?”
Google Stalin net worth and mfers will say with a straight face "the entire productive capacity of the soviet Union".
to be fair, they had to produce a very large spoon, which took the full industrial capacity, just so he could eat the full agricultural capacity.
Fighting imperialism, like democracy or voting or anti colonialism, doesn’t automatically make you a good person nor are you required to be one to do these things.
Hexbear users be like: he's our neoliberal.
I’ll be one to admit yeah that kinda is the take right now unfortunately. I’ll even go so far as to coin him a neonationalist as dumb as that term sounds and really only applies to Russia so far. Maybe also America.
Let's be real, he is not allied with communists.
He’s allied to DPRK, Cuba, Venezuela and China. If they aren’t communists then nobody is
Keep in mind is entire career he tried to ally himself with the west up to the point they literally went to war with him. Putin does not get a pass just because he’s allied with with these nations, we need to come at this from the position of “the least he could do is have good relations with these nations”
Still, it's hard not to feel a little bad for him being like Homer Simpson trying to join the no Homers club
Yeah he sucks and he was trying to join an evil organization but they were such assholes to him on a personal level, like they just rejected him for being Russian
Absolutely and you’ll never see me say otherwise. That being said it’s not out of hand to be disappointed at the leader of the former largest anti fascist nation try to get into the Nazi club.
Not the communists I was referring to, and aligning with states which practices an ideology is not the same as supporting and sanctioning said ideology. He represses communism at home because he likely understand the threat they pose to his power.
I don't care. The primary contradiction is more important.
That makes sense, even so we shouldn't have any delusions about who he is and what he stands for.
And calling him an imperialist or fascist is one of those delusions common among radlibs and still lingering among the squishier hexbears
What about China?
Not really what I meant, I was more referring to his attitude towards Russian communists. He might align with China for all sorts of reasons beyond personal agreement with communism.
It depends on how you look at it. He’s an ally to Chinese communists because they share military and trade relations and are only friendly terms with each other. He’s not an ally to them if you look at it ideologically because he considers communism a failure and inferior to whatever he has going on. And perhaps the Chinese don’t care at all that’s he’s anti communists because they care about the material support more.
I doubt Xi’s Marxism Leninist ideology is ever on Putin’s mind, the same way MBS being a literal monarch is likely not on Xi’s mind. It’s not really about communism vs capitalism anymore. It’s about markets and whose guns will be on your side or out of your way
Something something redfash agorbitarian etc and so forth
With “leftists” like we got in the west, thank god
And?