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  • The criminalisation of the slogan "from the river to the sea" in Germany is absolutely ludicrous and shameful.

    • Holy fuck feddit.org is filled with hasbara drones 😂

    • What makes you think so?

      How do you see that slogan in the context of Israel's existence, given the (potential) relation mentioned in the article?

    • Yeah, it's really shameful to lament a genocide while advocating for a genocide... but your propaganda-induced brain damage causes impressive cognitive dissonance.

      • The only way to understand the slogan as a call for genocide is if you have accepted the premise that "a Free Palestine Must Necessarily Mean The Extermination Of Jews". And that is a profoundly fucked up thing to say.

        • if you have accepted the premise that “a Free Palestine Must Necessarily Mean The Extermination Of Jews”

          Yes, a free Palestine ranging "from the river to the sea" while at the very same time -just like Israel- staunchly rejecting the idea of a two-state solution is exactly that.

          Out of the two insane and genocidal sides of that conflict none can claim moral superiority.

          (For reference: see §2 of the Hamas charter that clearly defines the borders of their "free Palestine" that covers 100% of Israel, West Bank and Gaza...)

          • How does reinstate Palestinian land for displaced Palestinians equate to an exterminate jews though? I don’t doubt that Hamas has that view but the those words alone does not mean that.

            You could argue it’s a dog whistle for antisemitism, but historically there has been many different groups with visions for what a one-state solution could look like.

            Israel is helping settlers settle in Palestinian territories, forcefully pushing way Palestinian and destroying their homes withe help of the Israeli military.

          • A Free Ireland did not mean a genocide of Protestants. A Free South Africa did not mean a genocide of Afrikaners. A Free Ukraine does not mean a genocide of Russians.

            A Free Palestine does not have to mean a genocide of Israelis.

            If you have given up on humanity, or if you somehow believe that Arabs are incapable of universalism, that's nothing but a failure of your own moral ambition.

            PS. Palestine is not Hamas. There is an internationally recognized Palestinian Authority that has actually recognized the 2 State Solution, that IS a potential partner for peace for Israel, that DOES do its best to manage extremism in the areas it controls. The same Palestinian Authority is being ratfucked over every step of the way by Israel. Undermined, delegitimized, made to look ineffective, ignored, silenced, provoked. Its lands being colonized, its people brutalized, its economy stifled, its resources stolen, its contiguity fractured, even its olive fucking trees cut. Every step of the way. Israeli settlers bullying, killing, rioting, and the Israeli army protecting them, the Israeli courts rubber stamping their crimes. If you're looking for a sane party to the conflict, look at the PA. Because this is what Palestine without Hamas looks like.

            • A Free Ukraine does not mean a genocide of Russians.

              Because it's not a free Ukraine that insists on covering 100% of Russia's territory.

              Palestine is not Hamas. There is an internationally recognized Palestinian Authority that has actually recognized the 2 State Solution.

              The last election was held 19 years ago. Hamas clearly won with 76 out of 132 seats. Pretending that the Palestinian Authority is somehow speaking for Palestinians because they say the stuff you want to hear is rediculous wishful thinking.

              The same Palestinian Authority is being ratfucked over every step of the way by Israel. Undermined, delegitimized, made to look ineffective, ignored, silenced

              You don't need to delegitimize people on year 19 of a 4 year term where they actually lost...

              • About 30% of the people in Ukraine have Russian add their native language, that's what I meant. Putin has used then as an excuse to take territory.

                Part of the ratfucking is precisely destroying the capacity of a society to function as a democracy. Create a situation of constant anomaly in which elections cannot meaningfully take place. Them criticize whoever is trying to do anything moderate as illegitimate. All the while you keep using these excuses to push through a radical expansion of settlements. How can you have free elections under apartheid? Saying otherwise is either ignorance or hypocrisy.

    • I totally can understand why some people see this as a call for the elimination of Israel and the murdering or deportation of all jews that live there. You might disagree, but: Many people view that slogan like this and they have their reasons. And it really is stupid from the protestors to run around during a massive police presence shouting that. It's totally obvious that nothing will we gained by that. Peace in the middle east will not come because you shouted that slogan in the streets of Berlin. Palestinians and Israelis won't start a dialogue and become friends.

      • That's such an absurd framing. There exist already countless fantastic initiatives for promoting dialogue between Israelis and Palestinians. Dialogue at the civil society level has been going on forever. There is nowhere near a lack of dialogue. The problem is not that Palestinians and Israelis haven't started a dialogue, the problem is that Israel is occupying, discriminating, colonizing, brutalizing, murdering, stealing land and ethnically cleansing as a matter of state policy.

        It is in this backdrop that good dialogue initiatives are being also delegitimized and stigmatized. On the ground in Palestine but also in the West. In Germany things are so absurd that Israeli Jews and non Israeli Jews who speak out against this madness are being stigmatized as ..."antisemitic".

        And in this background you have a national liberation slogan of the oppressed side being maliciously misinterpreted in the worst possible bad faith way. Effectively it forces the discussion to be first and foremost about Israeli comfort, and everything else being secondary. It is absolutely a ludicrous and shameful framing of the whole discourse.

52 comments