'Internal purposes only': Memo backs claim Trudeau government suppressing carbon-tax impact data
It seems to confirm the parliamentary budget officer's claim that the government put a gag on him to not talk about its internal numbers.
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Trudeau and his government are moving us backwards in climate change action. Thing are already worse in terms of weather with extreme heat already hitting us in May and June.
Climate scientists everywhere are simply giving up any hope lately with how not a single government cares about climate change and how bad we're fucking up out planet.
moving us backwards in climate change action. Thing are already worse in terms of weather
The entire rest of the world is destroying the environment too. Carbon tax is a good step we can take in the right direction, but don't expect to see any change to the climate disasters affecting us just because our country enacts a good climate policy.
It's not good enough. It's basically allowing companies to share their pollution output.
No, it's not. Any economist will tell you that the best way of making companies care about the environment is to make them have to pay for every bit of pollution they generate. It's called taxing an externality, and it's basically the best solution we have to the tragedy of the commons.
I think there's better options. Like creating strict laws to control pollution and revoking companies their right to run their business if they don't comply and have the people in charge face potential jail time if it has adverse health on local residents or destroys the local ecology.
Yeah but none of that is realistically possible. The cost of enforcing those rules and ensuring that companies aren't finding loopholes to skirt the law is untenable. A carbon tax is simple, easy to track, and if companies try to get around it, then it's tax evasion (and not the kind that can be mitigated by moving to Panama or Ireland), which the government usually takes pretty seriously.
It’s not good enough.
This is a bit subjective, but not unfair.
Trudeau and his government are moving us backwards in climate change action.
Hmm, well, small steps forward is still forward movement.
We're among the top world carbon emitters and the Alberta oil plays a big part of it.
We really need to curb oil producing in Canada and turn to green energies ASAP.
Fuck Alberta's feeling. This needs to happen NOW.
And PP's campaign is half about undoing everything that's been done so gas guzzling F350 drivers in Alberta are happy and vote for him.
There's no winning this without economic impact and mass anger from the population.
What are you doing to help solve the problem or mitigate your personal contributions to the problem?
Someone could reply to your comment saying they just follow their municipal guidelines and they could be doing more than someone with a long list of whatever because their government has implemented better climate action systems.
Grilling individuals on their personal contributions is unproductive because climate change is a systemic, societal issue that is beyond any individual.
There is no Government on the planet doing anywhere close to enough to make real impact. Feel free to name any Government you feel is an exception and I will get back to you with a long list of shit they are doing or not doing to accelerate the problem.
Systemic social issues only begin to change on individual levels. If you aren't willing to take responsibility for what you are doing to contribute, and simply want to "Blame the system" for everything, you are the one being unproductive and contributing heavily to the problem.
I contribute less than 1 kitchen catcher worth of waste every week to landfills. I support local business' who source local materials whenever possible to ensure the products I use make as little impact as possible. I walk everywhere I can, which is basically everywhere up to 50km a day when I need to. I clean up garbage in parks, help plant new trees and gardens, and maintain my own at home to help the bee populations. I use as little electricity as possible, and this is even living in a place that is basically 100% green generated.
I go out of my way to do everything I can as an individual in an attempt to demonstrate how easy it is to do these things. Every day I am learning and changing in order to be better than I was yesterday and make less impact as an individual. I also have my partner doing all of this with me, so all the effort is two fold. All without relying on Government initiatives, aid, or even permission.
So again I ask: What are you doing to help?
I refuse to put the blame on individuals for climate change 100 companies are responsible for 71% of emissions
There are plenty of things for individual things people can do, but the responsibility rests on corporations for this mess. And it can’t be individuals to clean it up.
And before someone starts saying that corporations only driven by individual consumerism, what other choice do we have? They literally make things to break more.
It’s just greed at the end of the day.
Can you please explain how your comment is a response to mine?
I can admit my faults, and I am actively changing what I do in order to be a better human. You seem to want to blame anyone but yourself so you can remain comfortable and do nothing at all to help.
I refuse to let individuals off the hook when they choose not to put in the effort to be a part of the solution. If you wish to continue this conversation please respond to what I said previously instead of using my comment to soap box your own points.
Because even if all individuals stopped polluting today magically, it still wouldn’t be enough.
Take that energy you’re using to hold individuals accountable and hold those actually polluting accountable.
EDIT
You seem to want to blame anyone but yourself so you can remain comfortable and do nothing at all to help.
You seem to be holding everyone but the organizations that are actually polluting.
Because even if all individuals stopped polluting today magically, it still wouldn’t be enough.
Over 8 Billion individuals not polluting the environment wouldn't change anything?
You seem to be holding everyone but the organizations that are actually polluting.
Tell me more about how multi billion dollar organizations can exist without a customer base. I am all ears on this one.
So you honestly believe the largest polluters will just stop polluting if consumers change habits?
Because like I cited, the vast majority of pollution comes from corporations. Not people.
Yes I do. Can you explain how I was some how unclear? This will be to my benefit in the future because I really do not know how I could have been more explicit.
Corporation literally means "Group of people". Your citation is worthless to your argument because it ignores that fact, which also supports my point. Thank you for that and have a wonderful day.
Sure it would change something but it wouldn't be enough to actually change the outcome. Companies are polluting way more then those over 8 billion people are. But yet everything governments come up with is you have to do this you have to do that. I mean growing up recycling was pushed hard on us. And look at the scam that turned out to be cause companies where just sending it to third world countries or dumping it in the landfills. Not to mention the best one is reduce but that hurts corporate profits.
Companies do not pollute, people do. Companies require people to exist as Companies do not exist independently of anything else. It is a concept.
Companies are not people, therefore "Companies" cannot pollute. Groups of people pollute.
Don't be a part of those groups.
Sure, I'll tell you.
I'm living in a medium density condo building with 25% of it dedicated to social housing. In an area where I have everything I need within a 10-30 minute walk. Living right next to a subway line and several bus lines that can take me to all the key areas in my city, which I use everyday, in addition to biking. I recycle anything that's recyclable. Compost everything that's compostable. Buy my groceries from a local green grocer and buy everything I can buy in bulk using reusable containers. I repair my stuff as much as I can even if it costs more than a brand new one. Buy a lot of used products, such as electronics to minimize e-waste. Speaking of which, I bring any other waste to my borough's eco center.
I think I'm doing my part, wouldn't you say?
I wouldn't say that no. That is minimizing impact, and in my opinion, the absolute bare minimum every single human should be doing with no excuses.
I would also say look in to recycling a little deeper and add that to the negative side of your impact because most "recycled" items end up in land fills. I would also ask why you do not walk more. I would also ask why you aren't adding green space and growing food on your balcony. I would ask why you aren't helping with community gardens instead of shopping essentially nullifying your food foot print with produce. I would ask why you don't go for a hike and forage the massive amount of foods found for free in a park.
I would ask why you need all the electronics you have in the first place, or if you know how much brought to an eco center winds up in a land fill.
I would not say you are even scratching the surface of "doing your part" because we have not even touched on everything and then we have to get to promoting the behavior to other humans.
The point is waiting around for others to do things is what will lead to extinction level events. Do it on your own and hope everyone starts following or doing better so you can do better.
Your expectations are unrealistic and completely ridiculous.
How my domestic recycling waste and e-waste ends up in landfills is not my responsibility. My municipality put in place a recyling program and my responsibilities stop at sorting my waste accordingly so it can be recycled. Even if I do my best to minimize waste, there is still going to be some. After that, its the responsibilities of the government and the companies they hire behind the programs to do their job.
You want me to walk more?? I'm already walking everywhere except to work, which I go to by subway. I barely ever even use the bus becaue I rarely ever have to leave my neighborhood. My job's office is 2 hours away by foot. You think I'm going to lose 2 hours of sleep to walk to work with my heavy backpack with my work laptop and shit? Get real.
We're already growing food on our 1.5m x 3m balcomy. But the sunlight is too strong and it burns our plants and barely grow anything. And we're not going to survive on 5 green bean pods, 2 eggplants, 4 tomates and 3 strawberries and a handful of herbs. The neighborhood community garden is already full and we couldn't get a spot this year. And that still wouldn't be enough to feed ourselves over the summer. And what are we supposed to do in the winter? Turn our living room into a garden while we're at it? Fuck it. Turn our whole condo unit into a greenhouse and sleep in the dirt?
You know, when you walk into any kind of store, even grocery stores, you look at all the shit they sell and how much of it is wrapped in plastic for no reason, that's the company's responsibility to stop using plastics to wrap everyting. It ain't my fucking fault if the only available lettuce where I live is wrapped in plastic. It ain't my fault if the company that made my clothes use sysnthetic fibers that add microplastics to the environment. It ain't my fault if the pair of scissors I bought from a local brand was actually made in some manufacture in South Asia and was shipped here by container cargo boat.
I do my best to avoid all this shit, but in the end, companies have a fucking responsibility. I'm doing my fucking part. Now it's up to them to do theirs. Especially when they're the ones responsible for the vast majority of the world pollution and greenhouse gasses.
You need to change your perspective.
How my domestic recycling waste and e-waste ends up in landfills is not my responsibility. My municipality put in place a recyling program and my responsibilities stop at sorting my waste accordingly so it can be recycled. Even if I do my best to minimize waste, there is still going to be some. After that, its the responsibilities of the government and the companies they hire behind the programs to do their job.
It is your responsibility. 100% your responsibility. Just like everyone else.
If you think "I am doing my part by using broken systems that literally makes the problem worse" is a solid argument maybe you need the perspective shift here.
You want me to walk more?? I’m already walking everywhere except to work, which I go to by subway. I barely ever even use the bus becaue I rarely ever have to leave my neighborhood. My job’s office is 2 hours away by foot. You think I’m going to lose 2 hours of sleep to walk to work with my heavy backpack with my work laptop and shit? Get real
You can justify laziness all you want. I walk to work 2 hours every day back and forth. I also lose no sleep because I schedule my time well. I still have 6 hours every work day for anything else I want as well.
I got real. Real damn good at scheduling my time.
We’re already growing food on our 1.5m x 3m balcomy. But the sunlight is too strong and it burns our plants and barely grow anything. And we’re not going to survive on 5 green bean pods, 2 eggplants, 4 tomates and 3 strawberries and a handful of herbs. The neighborhood community garden is already full and we couldn’t get a spot this year. And that still wouldn’t be enough to feed ourselves over the summer. And what are we supposed to do in the winter? Turn our living room into a garden while we’re at it? Fuck it. Turn our whole condo unit into a greenhouse and sleep in the dirt?
This kind of hyperbolic straw man building is helpful to no one. Honestly, what point are you trying to make here?
I assure you food will be a lot more scarce and life a whole lot harder if you and everyone else holding this attitude keeps doing so.
You know, when you walk into any kind of store, even grocery stores, you look at all the shit they sell and how much of it is wrapped in plastic for no reason, that’s the company’s responsibility to stop using plastics to wrap everyting. It ain’t my fucking fault if the only available lettuce where I live is wrapped in plastic. It ain’t my fault if the company that made my clothes use sysnthetic fibers that add microplastics to the environment. It ain’t my fault if the pair of scissors I bought from a local brand was actually made in some manufacture in South Asia and was shipped here by container cargo boat.
Your fault you bought it. You are the consumer and by the sounds of it you believe you are not responsible for what you choose to consume. Not sure how you manage to rationalize that one but I won't pretend like you aren't clearly a huge part of the problem based on what you have said to me so far.
I do my best to avoid all this shit, but in the end, companies have a fucking responsibility. I’m doing my fucking part. Now it’s up to them to do theirs. Especially when they’re the ones responsible for the vast majority of the world pollution and greenhouse gasses.
I am really tired of this narrative. The companies can only exist if you and others support them. They are not autonomous beings who can live independent of anything else. Even if legally speaking some countries consider corporations "people", they aren't actually people. It is interesting how that narrative informs your opinion though eh?
You need to change your perspective.
I have. Take any longer to play catch up and you are going to bore me into no longer responding.
What a bunch of bullshit it's our responsibility to what? We recycle stuff they throw it int the landfill what are we supposed to do about that. Ok what is your solution to recycling being a scam? What do you do with your electronics, plastics whatever? How do you get out of the broken system I'd like to know and so would others so we could better the planet. The other thing is even though you do all this it isn't making one bit of difference in the world, and if everyone did this it still wouldn't make one bit of difference cause the companies doint 80+ percent of the pollution would still do it and nothing would change.
Keep crying about companies, I will keep doing what I am doing. Meet back in a year and we can see who is happier at the end of it. Deal?
Sure put it on the consumer again like every other climate policy. You have to do this you have to do that well companies are polluting far more then the general public is but they get a free pass cause You can do something.
"They" don't get a free pass, I never said "they" did. I don't support "them", and if every one else did the same, "they" wouldn't be a problem.
Quite simple when you think about it.