[Serious] Why do so many people seem to hate veganism?
[Serious] Why do so many people seem to hate veganism?
Seen a lot of posts on Lemmy with vegan-adjacent sentiments but the comments are typically very critical of vegan ideas, even when they don't come from vegans themselves. Why is this topic in particular so polarising on the internet? Especially since unlike politics for example, it seems like people don't really get upset by it IRL
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If you accept that there are moral/ethical problems with eating meat (contribution to climate change, health concerns, animals being killed and eaten, whatever), and choose to eat meat anyway, and encounter a vegan, what has to happen?
You can accept that they are making a better choice, but then you have to accept that you're making a worse choice. Most people are cowards and protect the ego at any cost. Rather than shrugging and saying "yeah, i should eat less meat. Good for you taking the high road", which requires accepting that you're not being the best, you can instead grab onto any reasons why no it's really them that sucks. That's easier, more comfortable, and doesn't require any painful introspection or changes.
It's the same mechanism when people get mad at cyclists, pedestrians, people who go to the gym, people who don't shop at Walmart, whatever. They're doing something that makes you feel bad in comparison. Most people are terrible at that and will lash out instead of doing anything productive.
Alternatively, or maybe additionally, people are really tribal, and once they adopt the idea that vegans (or cyclists, or people driving small cars, or people wearing sandals, whatever) are in the outgroup, then they enjoy being hostile to them.
People are ego driven emotional morons. All of us. Me, too. It's terrible.
Your first sentence answers the actual question.
Well..aCtUAllY
You can accept that they are making a better choice, but then you have to accept that you're making a worse choice.
No, people don't dislike vegans or vegetarians because of their choices, they dislike them because they lord their, what they think "better" choice over others. And create in- and out- groups via labeling.
Being vegan or vegetarian means that you have to spend more money in the store to buy food, because meat is heavily subsidized compared to vegetarian options. Also, because being vegan/vegetarian is not the default, many products are overpriced.
Another point is that a healthy and varied diet using only vegan or vegetarian food doesn't come so natural, so you have to research this more, which means you have to spend time, which again is a commodity.
So it is not just about good or bad, it is also about privilege and class. So people should not go around making statements about other people making "worse" choices.
Rice and beans are staples in poor countries. Meat is for the rich.
Yes. Meat is expensive, and should be expensive.
However meat replacement products cost even more, but they should be cheaper, because they are cheaper to produce.
Diary free ice cream is more expensive. Cow milk is cheaper than oat milk.
This isn't just about not eating meat or animal products, this is the whole "vegan lifestyle" food that is unreasonable more expensive.
Like buying more expensive vegan salt or sugar instead of normal one.
And if you don't do that, you are not a "true vegan™". And the vegan police will come and get you!
"Oh, the pepper you just ate was fertilized by pig manure, sorry you aren't vegan anymore. You should have bought the more expensive vegan pepper."
You don't need to buy luxury items to eat healthy vegetables. Such a weird defense.
I'm not sure why you are making up imaginary arguments. Have you ever heard anyone ever accuse someone else of "not being vegan anymore" because they ate a non vegan product? I know quite a few vegans, I try to be vegan myself (but quite often cave, cheese is delicious), and all the vegans I know would be simply thrilled to know that someone was making an effort at all. Literally no one cares if you aren't 100% vegan, basically no one is anyway. But if you decide once a week to eat a vegan meal instead of a steak, great!! That's still helping the planet, better for the animals, etc.
But making up these ridiculous vegan cliches doesn't help anyone, it just makes more people annoyed at each other.
The fact that you just think people should live more poorly and with less nutrition if they can't afford the fru fru stuff is really disturbing.
I've been rive and beans only poor before. It sucked a lot. And on the rare occasion I could get some meat or cheese in my diet I definitely wasn't in a position to be worried about which choice was "worse". I just wanted some freaking variety. I should be able to have that. Everyone should.
Donate to your local food bank!
I just stated a fact. Not what I think nor what others should do. I do however think you underestimate how healthy vegetables are. I never said people should only eat rice and beans.
Now go and enjoy your flesh, because otherwise there won't be variety (that sounds really dumb btw).
Being vegan or vegetarian means that you have to spend more money in the store to buy food
no it doesnt? Im 1,000% willing to bet youve never been vegan before. Plant based diets are way cheaper, just go to your local store and look at eh price for a kilo of carrots or potatoes vs a a kilo of chicken.
Another point is that a healthy and varied diet using only vegan or vegetarian food doesn’t come so natural, so you have to research this more, which means you have to spend time, which again is a commodity.
also complete bullshit.
No, people don’t dislike vegans or vegetarians because of their choices, they dislike them because they lord their, what they think “better” choice over others.
I'm not sure we agree on what "lording over" is. Like if someone says "Sorry, I can't eat that, I'm vegan" is that lording it over you? Pretty much every vegan I've encountered has been polite, and at about the level of someone with a food allergy. Sometimes they check the ingredients label.
TIL beans are expensive and privileged.
Pardon my flippant remark. I couldn't help myself. I appreciate you weighing in on this thread.
I can appreciate how avoiding animal products can seem challenging if you have no direct examples to refer to, but it's really not. There are literally entire ethnic groups that live cradle to grave without eating meat.
Like for me growing up poor, a defacto vegetarian diet was the norm for us, so it's just how I eat 90% of the time. Likewise, if you grew up around people who know about nutrition, you get used to planning your meals without relying on meat/dairy/etc to fill in the gaps.
I do believe it's more ethical to avoid meat entirely, even though I myself don't. I just try my best to keep it lower impact.
You can accept that they are making a better choice,
That's exactly where it starts. You simply assume that vegans are the better people. And then you preach. That's exactly what people dislike in vegans and similar people.
If we remove the ethic argument from the conversation, veganism is definitely a better choice for the planet, factually.
People have a hard time detaching their ego from the issue at hand. Since veganism is better for the planet, they are "better" in that specific area of their life.
But it doesn't mean that vegans are better people than non-vegans, because we don't know what else they do.
Eat meat if you want. I do. But I don't feel personally attacked because vegans are right about the carbon footprint of meat, and they preach for it.
That choice is steeped in privilege though, and I think it's worth acknowledging that. Food choices are just something we shouldn't be judging other people on, regardless of what those choices are. "Fed is best" applies through all stages of life.
You are right, but we use this privilege to eat more meat instead of more vegetables. So my point still stands.
And even then, meat is way pricier than vegetables, so the privilege argument is shaky.
But as I said, assume the fact that you eat meat and that it is more damageable for the environment and after that, if you are in a position where you can afford to eat less or no meat, do it if you feel like it.
Some people do, but it's not as easy as "just eat better" for everyone. If we were arguing about how people aren't eating healthy I think very few people would be frame it as just a choice.
Cheap meat, fast food (few if any veggie options, and basically no vegan ones) - these are staples of the poor. There's a limit to how much rice and beans anyone wants to eat, especially when just getting a couple pounds of ground beef is a luxury. I don't think it's right to shame people for taking the beef. Or judging them for taking it.
I think if vegans want to change the world they should be campaigning against poor practices in the industry, not attacking the guy who just worked 16 hours at a minimum wage job and is choosing to grab a mcdouble rather than going home to cook a beyond burger. Is one better for the environment and world? Sure. But it's not that guy's fault the system is rigged in favor of the mcdouble, and reminding him of the fact that he's making the world worse isn't furthering the goal of making the world better.
I understand your point and I agree. But a lot of privileged people (i'm included in that) should definitely consume less meat or none at all.
This is a strange argument that the problem with vegans is that they don't do enough for the poor?
I haven't seen any vegans protesting in a 7/11. It's usually high end butcher or restaurants.
So again, I agree with what you say, but it doesn't make sense in the current frame of discussion.
No. It is one better choice. Does not say shit about the millions of other choices we do.
Thank you for preaching and proving my and others point.
If the fact bothers you, maybe you should refrain from discussions on this topic. Or tell me why it is not a "better choice".
"Making a better choice" doesn't "make you a better person", necessarily.
And also like I said in my post, just accept that you're not always going to be a perfect person. None of us are. You don't have to get mad at anyone else for that.