Apple attempting killing PWAs in EU: Action Needed
Apple attempting killing PWAs in EU: Action Needed
Apple has officially announced that they attempting to kill web apps in the EU, which will have ramifications worldwide
Apple has decided to remove Progressive web apps from iOS in EU. If you have a business in the EU or serve EU users via Web App/PWA, we must hear from you in the next 48 hours!
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Forgive me for taking the easy layup:
Me: pwas are insecure and generally a bad idea. It’s easy to believe that apple is breaking the stuff that makes them possible in order to enhance security and I think it’s a good thing.
You: well they work fine on famously secure and privacy respecting platform android, did you ever think of that?
In all seriousness I do think pwas are gonna be put in users choice of browser jail on all platforms including the desktop eventually and as different aspects of their operation start making the news in bad ways they’ll get pruned away. Apple is ahead of the curve on this one.
I’m not sure if pwas will continue to exist once the stuff that allows them to function the way they do is taken away. Once you take away persistent cache, notifications, unique browser engines and probably some other stuff I’m forgetting they start to look a lot less enticing when compared to just having a website or making an application that’s distributed through normal channels.
Users should be allowed to use whatever they want and not be restricted by an asshole company that "respects privacy" when in reality it's just about control.
That sounds a lot like the old windows 95 and dos days where the expectation was that the os would never stand in the way of even the most obviously malicious software.
I don’t want to go back to those days and even the most freedom loving environments have dropped support for operations like direct memory mapped io and more pertinent to the topic of our discussion, web technologies like flash and inline pdf rendering.
I get that it feels like someone is trying to take something away from you, but you gotta recognize that the thing they’re taking away is basically a gun pointed at your own foot.
I run a lot of systems that allow you to screw up, but I don’t have any complaints about one that doesn’t, especially when it’s on mobile: a platform with a much higher risk, reward for compromise, higher user trust and higher level of obfuscation regarding what’s happening under the hood.
Sure but PWAs are not a big deal at all.
It’s weird then that Firefox on the desktop doesn’t support them.
Just think on why that might be. Why both Mozilla and Apple would be opposed to something that Google is in favor of.
I mean, if pwas are no big deal then surely a platform other than chromium and android combined would be gladly embracing this new technology.
I’m really not trying to argue from a position of aged authority, but pwas are bad. I know because every time some way to make a webpage just like a program and also escape the browser has come up it’s been bad.
And when you look at it as a power struggle between big corporations pwas are being pushed by Google, the bad one.
I know that’s not convincing so let me ask you this: what would be? What would convince you that despite Apple being your enemy, pwas are bad?
Why both Mozilla and Apple would be opposed to something that Google is in favor of.
We don't know Mozilla's stance on it. (If you know, please link a source) Maybe they just won't bother unless a full spec is out, who knows. And Apple isn't opposed since they support it. They just don't want anyone else to support it so they shut it down in the EU.
I mean, if pwas are no big deal then surely a platform other than chromium and android combined would be gladly embracing this new technology.
What platform? Chromium is extremely dominating and Firefox (and* derivatives) are pretty much their only competitor and Firefox just happens to lack much support (they support some stuff though).
Considering how big chromium is there is really no space for anyone else to actively not support it because they are so insignificant that it doesn't matter.
Windows, Linux, macOS, iOS (Non EU) supports PWAs. What more do you want?
Microsoft (and Google) supports the publication of PWAs to their application store: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/progressive-web-apps-chromium/
I know because every time some way to make a webpage just like a program and also escape the browser has come up it’s been bad.
I don't understand what you are trying to say here.
What would convince you that despite Apple being your enemy, pwas are bad?
I dunno, facts? If they dropped PWAs in the rest of the world as well then it would still be an asshole thing to do (if their app store and ecosystem remains locked down) but it would come across as equally petty.
People should be allowed to use PWAs if they do damn well please. But no, Apple wants their "core platform fee" bullshit so they shut down PWAs in the EU.
Anyways, luckily the EU is investigating Apple for this: https://www.shacklefree.in/https://www.ft.com/content/d2f7328c-5851-4f16-8f8d-93f0098b6adc
Apple has always been incredibly anti-competitive (No I,m not saying Google is good either, but maybe better) which destroys any trust in cases like this:
It’s interesting that I’m not supposed to infer the Mozilla groups stance on pwas, but also not supposed to believe what Apple has directly stated.
I mean, the only thing Apple is preventing is the installation of pwas directly to the desktop, notifications and the use of persistent cache past a week, right?
You can still do a link on the desktop to an online pwa just like a link to some website.
And that’s only if the pwa is t distributed through their app store. Afaik if the developer goes through that channel of distribution they get to store data persistently (this is the running offline everyone’s up in arms about), use notifications, etc.
Personally I hate pwas and hope they go away, but even if you like them, surely these small constraints which are in line with other platforms won’t be a problem.
I don’t see any reason not to believe what apple says about needing to be safe with other browser engines since they gotta allow them in the eu. I mean, let’s give a real uncharitable look at ios security: maybe the vaunted secure platform is filled with undocumented flaws covered up by heavy integration between the rendering engine and the os. Maybe ios + safari sucks and they need to cover up as much of it as possible so the new browser engines don’t expose users to security vulnerabilities.
Am I missing something here?