1y ago

Way to go, guys!

809 comments

As someone who is struggling to find a reason to vote for biden for who he is, rather than vote for him for what he is not, its so disheartening to see the only valid reason to vote for him is just that he isn’t trump.
And I hate that discussion about this is always so black and white about this, and just sneering at people who have no policy reason to vote for biden, throwing shade at people who genuinely hate biden’s neoliberal platform for criticizing because trump is the opponent.
Voting for someone because they aren’t trump didn’t work in 2016, and Im worried it isn’t going to work in 2024. And I’m starting to see why people are feeling so hopeless when it comes to electoralism
- I don’t know your definition on what is good faith or not, but I genuinely mean this. I don’t know how I can prove it in any way other than explaining my views.
  I’m a libertarian socialist, an anarchist. Admittedly, I’ve got some standards that will not be met by anyone currently viable, but I’m not going to put aside my views for realism, since if that’s the case, is there any point in having a political philosophy? I used to have a lot of faith in electoral politics, and I volunteered at polling stations before I was even old enough to vote. I have voted in every single election that there has been since I turned 18, including local elections.
  Right now, I’m not feeling a lot of faith in electoral politics, full disclosure. For me, the big reason I don’t like biden is, even if there is a “progressive win,” there are a lot of him doing terrible things that I find repugnant. Every step forwards is has a step backwards somewhere else. From his immigration policy to his zionism, I don’t see a lot to love. One of the most important issues to me is the climate, since I want to live a full life on this planet without climate collapse, but he has been working for the interests of fossil fuel industries. This can be seen in his approval of pipelines, drilling, etc.
  Before you say “But trump…” I realize and acknowledge that he has the same opinions, if not worse ones on all the things biden did that I don’t like. But does that excuse Biden?
  The thing that pisses me off is that this system does not feel democratic. Due to so many issues with the current system it is impossible to get someone on the actual left. Between lobbying (legalized bribery) gerrymandering, PACs and super PACs (Citizens United), super delegates within the Democratic party, the electoral college, think-tank fueled media, and possibly some things I forgot about, I have no voice. To go back to the upcoming election, why do we find this acceptable? Why do we have to accept that it’s biden vs trump, neoliberal democracy vs proto-fascism. The fact that my vote should be dictated more by who biden is not rather than who he is, this harm reduction ideology, is antidemocratic at the core, and that’s what I have an issue with. When you couple that with the inability for an individual to make any change in the system without reinforcing it, everything feels hopeless.
  If you managed to read all that rambling, I’m sorry if it came off as wild ranting, i’m very upset at the state of the system, and I’m kinda venting right now.
  
  I mean you're right but your expectations on political freedom are indeed unrealistic in the current order. The US isn't functioning very well as a democracy but even in countries where democracy is mostly working the options aren't all that much better.
  In Sweden we don't have first past the post. I don't see any major issues with our voting system. Any party that gets at least 4% has a place in the parliament. The left still struggles immensely and seems kind of bewildered. Our alt right party just keeps growing.
  
  I mean you’re right but your expectations on political freedom are indeed unrealistic in the current order.
  I agree that it's unrealistic, and it's sad that having good democracy is seen as unrealistic. The thing is, I'm not going to back down on my desires for a better democracy, since it feels more achievable to me compared to other issues I care about, such as stopping the climate from collapsing. I know that a lot of other democracies are struggling, but I don't feel that a representative democracy has enough resilience to withstand abuse when the powers that be are accountable for only one day every 2-6 years.
  As for your second paragraph, I'd love to get rid of first past the post voting, it's a good thing IMO. I'm not fully on board with a proportional representation, I do think it's one of the best schemes. I know it would give a voice to some truly fascistic groups, but I hope the pros of having real leftist groups could outweigh that, but whether or not it would happen, IDK.
  The left still struggles immensely and seems kind of bewildered. Our alt right party just keeps growing.
  As an american, I see the same thing here. I get that there is a rise in fascism everywhere, and what I have seen in other places, such as italy, is terrifying.
  In the US, there is a history of left wing oppression and infiltration, such as COINTELPRO, and I know that for some groups, especially older groups that have gone through it, there's a lot of paranoia and disorganization that comes from that. Even harmless groups like Food Not Bombs have had some organizational problems caused by COINTELPRO. I just hope someone smarter than me will be able to figure things out, since I've got no ideas on how to organize in the face of this shit.
  
  Biden has many good and progressive accomplishments under his belt
  Name some
  
  "No, you research my side of the arguement!" - You
  If you can't easily list off a few then maybe the accomplishments aren't that great.
- Infrastructure spending, supporting unions, taxing, prevented Israel from invading Lebanon, supporting Ukraine. Seriously there's tons of reasons. So many I think you're faking it.
- Yes you need to acknowledge that your democracy is broken. Letting Trump burn the last of it won't fix it though.
  
  Yes you need to acknowledge that your democracy is broken.
  I acknowledge this.
  Letting Trump burn the last of it won’t fix it though.
  You're right. I think the concept of framing elections solely around who someone is not is an antipattern. Viewing it from this framing makes what the candidate stands for less important than who they are not, meaning it is less important to have a policy platform that is beneficial to the general populace. And I hate that.
  Don't get me wrong, I really don't want trump to win, but I think it's wrong to simply fall in line because biden isn't trump. This line of thinking is what makes me so mad when I meet other queer folks who go "Well, he ain't a democrat and that's what matters," or a person deep in poverty who says something similar. I think people should be chastising him for his shit takes, mistakes, and support of genocidal states.
- Nail on head. It shouldn't be so hard to put forward some aspirational policies in the world's richest country.
- I replied to someone else in this thread with my thoughts on how the system is broken

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