Updated - programming.dev defederation on hold
Updated - programming.dev defederation on hold
Update: In light of the programming.dev update here https://programming.dev/post/8399272, the defederation is no longer going ahead.
However, something more needs to be said. Even here on Blahaj, some of our users took issue with the choice to defederate over this issue.
So I would like to give some background and context.
Blahaj Zone exists, because both Kaity and I left mainstream social media to escape transphobia. Reddit, with its lackluster approach to fighting transphobia, and twitter, with its outright celebration of transphobia pushed us here, to the fediverse, and to create Blahaj Zone and Blahaj Lemmy.
To that end, we will continue to treat transphobia seriously. Our goal is to create a space where gender diverse folk can exist and let our defenses down a little, where we don't have to worry about getting dragged in to an argument with a transphobe, or a bad faith actor "just asking questions".
If you are looking for a more reddit like experience, where in the interest of increased engagement, we let low level transphobia slide, and push responsibility for dealing with it on to community mods and individual users, then you will likely not be happy with blahaj going forward. If you choose to stay here, understand that we may defederate again in the future over similar issues.
The choice is yours.
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It has recently been brought to my attention that the lead admin of programming.dev is engaging in ongoing transphobia.
You can see the conversation in question here https://programming.dev/comment/6131539
For that reason we will be defederating from programming.dev in 48 hours.
There are only three communities on that instance used by small number of our users, so this won't have a big impact, but if you are one of those users, you will need to use an alt account on another instance if you wish to access the communities.
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Absolutely agree with this decision. Also, this one thing he said at the end of the argument really rubbed me up the wrong way:
quote from the admin during the argument where he was defending his transphobia and the wizard game
Now that I’m looking and see that you are all from hexbear it makes way more fucking sense. The actual trans people with sense are on blahaj, fucking hexbear morons invading this thread makes everything make sense now. Go touch grass.
Ngl I'm really starting to get annoyed with how transphobes on other Lemmy instances treat blahaj as like their trans best friend and use it to launder their shitty opinions just because hexbear users are more aggressive in calling out transphobia and then dogpiling whichever user said it
[Edit 1: the person who was debate broing me earlier about this comment from another instance went into a transphobic meltdown and got banned from blahaj and had all their replies removed lmao]
[Edit 2: someone else got annoyed at me for not including a disclaimer that more than two years ago this guy said that trans people don't have a biological advantage over cis women on Reddit so yeah, here's the disclaimer]
Hexbear isn't calling out transpobia they use it as fighting word and make it meaningless, just like everything they do or touch.
This is transphobic, almost all the people in that thread that are responding are trans, and as you can see by this thread and the other thread, the trans people on this site agree with the ones on hexbear on this issue
Trans people have a right to call out transphobia
Eh... I'd say thats a bunch of personal attacks being thrown around with some transpobic wording because its a "good" attack point in a enraged debate.
What do you mean by this, can you cite a specific example in the thread? Trans people are allowed to be mad when encountering transphobia.
https://programming.dev/comment/6126787 all the comments there.
Ok, all of those are trans people responding to someone who misgendered a user and used transphobic talking points? You're allowed to be angry and make personal attacks against transphobes, transphobia itself is a personal attack against all trans people
https://programming.dev/comment/6154322
This is your misgendering... Bro he literally showed that he didn't see it and i think its rather respectful to use they in that regard if you don't know...
And he responded
Sorry, they really aren’t prominently displayed everywhere. And getting offended by it really isn’t helping your case here.
A sorry was enough, doubling down and complaining about trans people being offended is transphobia
You don't need to be offended every time someone uses the wrong pronounce... Especially when you get proof that its not intentionally. Just say please adress me as [she/him/they...] and don't play victim over something that insignificant
He is right in saying that it ain't helping the case, wich is objectively correct.
He was so close to deescalating and then doubled down on the escalation.
Permanently Deleted
Some might but the majority of that instance is brigaders that like to disrupt everything.
btw can you please stop solo-brigading this thread? you're not from blahaj and you're disrupting everything on this post.
I have a blahaj account, just saw the post with another one first.
Also im not brigading at all, im just voicing my opinion (or stating facts) here and awnsering comments like yours
You have a blahaj account yet you make the most tired bad faith anti-trans arguments i've seen since I left reddit.
What a disgrace.
It's telling that you made such a big leap all on your own.
saying that the trans people getting annoyed at someone for misgendering them are overreacting / just trying to start an argument
Misgendering a hexbear user and when she politely asks you not to do that doubling down that actually it wasnt misgendering
Posting a right wing meme accusing someone who disagrees of being a child who's comparing you to hitler
🤔
brigading is when lemmy federates posts across communities so that when something hits the front page a lot of people from an active community reply to it.
Do you have a link to this exchange?
Honestly though that comment about Hexbear is pretty on point. Hexbear makes every comment thread they invade a nightmare, and is one of the goals of their instance.
Here's the comment they said it in: https://programming.dev/comment/6173847
And ngl, despite having some disagreements with hexbear, I think them making comment threads a nightmare for transphobes trying to defend the grand wizard of the TERFs is a good thing
They make comment threads a nightmare for everybody not just transphobes.
Also I couldn't help but notice that the part you clipped out conveniently skips the whole first half where they cite instances where they defend trans people and even tell people to check their mod logs for instances where they removed antisemitism and transphobic content.
Edit: By everybody I mean everybody that has even a slightly different opinion then them on anything.
The comment I made wasn't supposed to be a hit piece against the guy or anything, it just me saying that I agreed with Ada's decision to defederate and also separatedly wanted to vent about a problem I had with the wider lemmy-verse using what they'd said as an example.
His defense of speaking over trans people who don't want people to give money to the head TERF and doubling down on misgendering trans people by linking some Reddit arguments he had with conservatives and Zionist substacks wasnt particularly relevant to the point I was making since it was never about him in particular so I just didn't include it.
If you want I could add a disclaimer to the comment saying he claims not to be a transphobe because he got into an argument with transphobes 2 years ago and seemingly those are the most recent comments he can find on his account to act as evidence of how committed he is to trans rights.
But while we're on the topic I don't think it matters how much someone declared themselves to be an ally if they suddenly turn around and start defending their misgendering and saying JK Rowling is "not that harmful" and that it was completely fine to have the goblins be hook nosed bankers with a star of David on the floor of their bank the moment that a minority group makes them feel bad.
It's also worth noting that the most pro trans statements he can cite is him saying that trans people don't have a biological advantage over cis women in sports over 2 years ago which isn't exactly ground breaking
I've had other people on lemmy tell me the same and claim they're not transphobic because they said XYZ to epicly own the repuclidumbs or whatever, and then the comment they made talking to actual trans people is just:
"Pronouns are fine, y'all took it to a level that looks like alt-right satire of pronouns. Trans rights are human rights, but am I literally Hitler because I don't think "comrade" or "fae" make sense when used as pronouns? You seem very rational and not at all unhinged."
I think it's important to distinguish that they were not defending JKR, and explicitly condemned her
And also that they have made many many comments (even citing a few) supporting trans people and have removed copious amounts of content that's transphobic and antisemitic in the past.
They even invite people to check their mod logs.
Yeah Garfs comment really takes things out of context
Putting in the energy to make well-rounded arguments in a discussion and educating a person who clearly has no idea what they’re talking about does not seem like a nightmare to me. I'm honestly pretty glad that they did that.
Wow, I missed that one!
The whole comment that the previous commentor took a small section of actually includes them citing instances where they've defended trans people.
And also includes them saying that they remove transphobic and antisemitic content all the time and invites people to check their mod logs.
Which gives me hope that they'll be able to recognise why these comments were a problem
Hey, as a Jew to a trans person, I don't make call outs on what is and isn't transphobic. I rely on your community when I think I'm seeing it since as the affected individuals y'all are the experts.
Do me a favor, give us the same respect about antisemitism. I'm getting awfully tired of seeing people throw that word around and as a Jew it's fucking scary that it's losing its meaning.
Thanks
You and I are both Jews. It's true that some people are using the phrase "antisemitism" in a way that promotes their own interests instead of as a warning of bigotry, but that isn't the case here. JK Rowling and her works are antisemitic and promote vile stereotypes of not just Jews but other minority groups as well.
Rowling is a bigot and her works should be forgotten.
Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree cousin.
While I know the common argument is "but the goblins!" The goblins look like what I'd expect goblins to look like. That harkens all the way back to my mental image of the goblin bankers when I first read the chamber of secrets.
I don't think that's unreasonable thinking, though the modern image of goblins is constructed from antisemitic stereotypes and imagery.
I do think it's possible to divorce the image of a fantasy goblin from its antisemitic history, but I don't think Rowling has done that and instead has leaned into the vile history of goblins as a Jewish stereotype.
The article someone else shared discusses this fairly well and I think it does well to note that the use of goblins as antisemitic tropes has become so commonplace that it's original intent is often lost. While some may celebrate that and say it's successfully divorced from its antisemitic roots, I think this is something far more sinister in the way that it's integrated antisemitic imagery into modern thinking.
I do think it's possible to divorce the image of a fantasy goblin from its antisemitic history, but I don't think Rowling has done that and instead has leaned into the vile history of goblins as a Jewish stereotype.
Right? And not just the books. I was watching Deathly Hallows part 1 lately, and it’s like the director gave Nazi propaganda to the goblin actor as reference. “Great! You are doing great! Now rub your hands! You are amazing! Now, evil laughter!”
It’s laughable to suggest Harry Potter goblins aren’t leaning into the anti-Semitic trope.
I think the problem here is associating features of goblins with jews and not that goblins exist in fantasy and look what they look like, they may (strong may) be originating from the antisemitic picture of Jewish people but nobody nowadays looks at a fantasy goblin and thinks of Jewish people (unless they already are big assholes obviously...) nowadays its just a goblin. and you can like it or not, i don't think JK R. wrote hers in the mind of mocking Jewish people.
And if she is or isn't transpobe (i haven't seen actual evidence so far but I'm not very deep into that either) doesn't really matter, the game itself is objectively good and people like it, thats it, and the game has nothing to do with JK, the license was bought from my knowledge, so she already has the money, you don't impact her by buying or not buying it and you don't make yourself happy by ranting about it.
And if she is or isn't transpobe
Jesus Christ dude. Go JAQ off somewhere else.
What? What is JAQ?
I think many people who like Harry Potter aren't in it because they enjoy the casual bigotry throughout the novels, but because they like a magical bildingsroman.
But Rowling is a horrendous bigot and her works are tainted by that. It seems to me that you want to enjoy things on a surface level without thinking about them critically, and I don't think that's an uncommon way to approach what is ostensibly a children's series. That said, you don't want to examine the work or its author deeper and so maybe you don't have a great grasp on the issue.
That's fine. But Rowling is a vile person and her works shouldn't be promoted.
Idk this entire debate about the game and her is promoting that franchise more than anything else, The wizard game wouldn't have made a big impact if it wasn't for people running around telling everyone how bad it is and that the people that play it are Nazis and kill trans people (I've seen that stance more than a few times sadly) that isn't helping anyone.
Hm, I'm not sure if people calling out against transphobia or antisemitism is promoting exactly, though it does build awareness. The fact that people see that and then think "I don't care what minorities have to say about how this affects them, I want to play wizards" or even "fuck this woke liberal nonsense, I'm going to play the racist game by the transphobe, I love this" is a different problem entirely. How would you suggest promoting a boycott without making people aware of the product you are boycotting?
And I think blaming the people who call out bigotry where it exists for the popularity of the bigoted work is absurd. Should people instead be silent about bigotry? I don't think that's a better situation. You're going to see hyperbolic opinions on any issue, from transphobia to corn farming, and focusing on those responses to decry the people affected by hatred feels backwards and counterproductive.
All that said, this is nonsequitor to the fact that her works are bigoted and if you don't want to bear the burden of examining media critically to avoid bigotry, the least you can do is listen when the people affected by that bigotry call it out for such.
I think we agree to disagree on the game, there are no reports that find actual transpobia or Antisemitic stuff in that game, most stuff is made up completely or is only very loosely based on reality and has a lot of imagination in it. There are probably some points that could be seen as problematic, but they aren't just in that game or franchise.
I thought you hadn't looked into it? Glad to see that changed.
But I don't think you're being sincere here. There's an article posted in this very thread that discusses the antisemitism in the game and JK Rowling hasn't been the least bit shy about her transphobia.
I don't think we agree at all here. And I don't think you really care if the game or franchise or its author is bigoted.
Ahh so you see, by pointing out racism, it is you who is the real racist!
- cj "i am very smart" the real@ani.social
A racist, a transphobe and an antisemite walk into a bar. The bartender looks up and says "aren't you that girl who wrote harry potter??"
While I'd be happy to do that in general, Hogwarts Legacy has major antisemitic themes carried over from the story designer.
I've edited out the bit about antisemitism in the comment o7
You rock, thank you! Don't let anyone tell you otherwise yo
Someone made a post to that on mtf
Fuck transphobes. Transphobes don't deserve to be coddled for having reactionary views just because they haven't murdered a trans person, fuck that noise. Transphobia is Transphobia.
Yeah most of the argument seemed at first to me to be that admin and the hexbear folks slapping each other, but if being stressed out by some bad faith interactions causes you to rant about some other group of trans people being "the good ones" it's not a good look
Oh wow that's really evil. Didn't know we were being used in such a way
I've seen it one or two times before and Ive been getting increasingly annoyed with it recently, I was even considering making a post about the general sentiment I'd seen before and then this happened.
It usually comes up in threads when people bring up how Lemmy is predominantly dominated by cis white males, and people will respond by saying stuff like "well what about blahaj zone?" as if all the trans people on lemmy not feeling comfortable enough to join up to anywhere except the one trans specific walled garden instance reflects well on lemmy as a whole.
