Why BBC doesn't call Hamas militants 'terrorists' - John Simpson
Why BBC doesn't call Hamas militants 'terrorists' - John Simpson
It's simply not the BBC's job to tell people who to support and who to condemn, writes the BBC's World Affairs editor.
I guess not strictly news - but with all of the vitriol I have seen in discussions on the Israel situation, that have boiled down to arguments over wording, I feel that this take from the BBC is worthy of some discussion.
Mods, feel free to remove if this is not newsy enough.
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Bullshit. They've used the word 'terrorist' for every other attack in the past two decades (9/11, London Bridge, Manchester Arena, 7/7, etc.). Was that not 'choosing sides' then?
They just can't admit that the UK fucked up and condemn Israel because the lawyers told them not to
Here is an article that doesn't refer to it as "terrorism":
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-40008389
The articles I have seen that refer to it as terrorism, tend to be from local BBC services, rather than the national one.
No its not, they are legally considered terrorists and are on the same list as ISIS or the Taliban.
legally
Whose law?
UK Parliament added Hamas on the list of proscribed terrorist organizations in 2021. Press release here: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/islamist-terrorist-group-hamas-banned-in-the-uk
The EU have them listed as well (didn't bother checking since when).
The US has listed them since 1997 (US Department of Treasury Office of Foreign Asset Control is the agency in charge of sanctions enforcement).
So yeah.
Legally.
For better or (and very clearly) for worse, Hamas has been the government in Palestinian since 2006.
Either laws and governments matter, or they don't.
You don't get to have it both ways.
Hamas has been the government in Palestinian since 2006.
No theyre not.
The Palestinian Authority is in charge of the West Bank and Hamas is "in charge" of Gaza (even tho Israel controls everything).
If you think Hamas is the government of Palestine, it actually makes sense. Israel loves pretending that's true in the media. And probably the only reason they haven't done anything about Hamas despite controlling every aspect of life in Gaza
You didn't have to give me a link showing me I'm right...
But you could edit your original comment now that you know.
it lost control to Hamas;
Hamas exercises de facto control.
You asked by whose law they are defined as terrorists. You got your answer: UK law, EU law, US law.
The BBC answers to UK law at the end of the day, not Gazan law, not US law, and not your law.
The BBC answers to UK law at the end of the day
Actually no, the role of journalism isn't just to parrot and re-express the views of the current government from where they are based.
I agree they shouldn't parrot the views of the UK government blindly. But the BBC are not above the law. Stop that nonsense.
Hamas is a terrorist organization. They organize and commit acts of intentional violence against civilians with the express purpose of spreading terror.
Calling them anything else other than that is a disservice to the readers of the BBC and implicitly condones their actions by not labelling them as such.
Was the Nazi party of Nazi Germany a terrorist organization when Germany invaded Poland?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_groups
Look after Hamas, basically everyone considers them terrorists.
Wikipedia is a lawmaking body?
I think you are missing the point.
Ah yes of course, someone links a source with a list of what you just asked and now you complain that the one making the list doesn't make the law...
Are you insane?
Law is not some immutable force. Many countries have laws.
In some of those countries, Hamas is a designated terrorist organization. In others, it is not, and even considered and ally (or has been previously, such as Afghanistan, Algeria, Iran, Qatar, Syria).
Hamas its self is a government. They have their own laws. So whose laws should we defer to?
The point is that who is or isn't a terrorist depends on the context and point of view you are speaking from.
There is no universality in that kind of word, and so its appropriate that the BBC isn't using it.
Critically, though, not the U.N. I linked to the same thing above before I saw your comment but came to a different conclusion. I personally call them terrorists but I’m not a journalist trying to be impartial on a global network. I think it’s fine for the BBC to just say which countries do label them terrorists without taking a side.
The UN doesn’t, according to your own source.
Kinda weird that New Zealand takes the time to differentiate calling the political arm of Hamas not terrorists and the militant arm of Hamas (Qassam Brigades) terrorists. Maybe someone should look into why.
The well known phrase is "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". I Imagine from their point of view, Israel is the 'terrorist' group, routinely bombing apartment buildings etc and that their actions are a proportionate counter (recent events nonwithstanding!)
Both sides of the current conflict have/are committing atrocities, but the reporting of those atrocities should be as factual and unbiased as possible.
The best way I've heard it described is that they both view the other group of people as existential evil. Far beyond enemies, something which is evil just for existing. Not just the militaries, but the nation, race, state, religion, whatever classification. With that viewpoint, any action you take can be justified. Just as nobody would think twice about killing a million mosquito larvae in a country that has thousands die from malaria, killing a few thousand of the other side is morally neutral at worst.
This is going to continue to be horrific for a while.
The freedom fighters that behead babies, rape woman and abduct people... Oh and also rocketstrike civilians in general...
If you believe in their "freedom" feel free to go there.
So do you call the Israeli army terrorists? Because they’ve done all of those things to an even greater extent than Hamas has.
You know, they BOTH do that shit, right? It’s important that you know this.
The military prosecuted and convicted the leader who ordered the killings, so implying the US military condones these actions is really stupid
Regardless of the wrist-slap the criminal President gave him, he was convicted. There is no legal recourse after a Presidential commutation.
My Lai was not an isolated incident.
Only one involved was convicted as stated, but then completely let off so who cares? The higher ups that enabled it were completely let off. Others who were involved in the cover up completely let off. The whistleblowers, etc were shunned and ostracized by the military for decades.
so who cares
Being that is invalidates the point you were making, you should care.
But then, your only interest in contrarianism, so no one really gives a fuck about your opinion either, you sick fucking terrorist apologist.
You need to work on your reading comprehension. Every single person who was brought to court for this was acquitted. Moreover the whistleblowers were antagonized. And historians all agree to say that this wasn't by any means an isolated case, but just the one that cought the media's attention.
…whataboutism sucks. Regardless if it’s true.
But complaining about whataboutism while you ignore the problem everytime somoeone powerfull or ally does sucks the same. A war of suckers.
But redirecting attention away from the topic being discussed just so you can whine about someone else doing the same makes it appear as if you’re justifying it so long as someone else does it.
Stop doing this. It’s juvenile and muddies the water. You want to discuss how shitty America is, do it in its own post where that can be discussed in full. Here, it doesn’t belong.
I'm not trying to do that, I'm trying to understand how to international interests interact with the war, if you really want to understand international conflicts you should do this all the time.
Saying "Hammas bad" is much more juvenile, and is equivalent of saying "fart" for the discussion
Tf are you taking about?
Excellent
And while you have every right to your opinion, your opinion isn’t a newsworthy or relevant fact.
Journalists should never label a group of people with an adjective. It's Journalism 101. Your writing should be free of personal bias and report the facts and quoted statements. No assumptions are allowed.
Lmao what? Terrorists isn't a adjective. And its not a personal bias its a fact https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_groups
Sorry that my source did not invent the usage, the word or language itself.
The U.S., U.K., E.U., and others designate them as a terrorist group but the U.N. does not. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_groups
The reality is that they’re the militant faction of the de facto government of a quasi-state under Israeli occupation. It is complicated so the BBC just says who thinks they’re a terrorist group. That seems reasonable for journalists striving to be neutral.
“Everybody wants to occupy ‘the holy land’ and everyone who is taking part of that sucks”
While Israel has been basically a terrorist state, attacking Palestinians nonchalant, bombing civilian districts, and Hamas has grown in number, also basically being a terrorist state (the iron dome exists for a reason), it feels like we are forgetting that this whole argument comes down to religious rights. The argument will never end. The conflict will never end. Both groups are thumping their book claiming it’s their land. The war will go on for centuries until there’s nothing left to claim. That’s how religious war works, unless some other great motivator stops it.
The war will go on for centuries until there’s nothing left to claim
The US is older than Israel. My grandfather is older than Israel and he's still alive. There was no state of Israel in 1920 and the Jewish population in the region was ~11%. This hasn't been going on for centuries. It's been going on for century.
The history of the Jews and Judaism in the Land of Israel has its origins in the 2nd millennium BCE, when Israelites emerged as an outgrowth of southern Canaanites, During biblical times, a postulated United Kingdom of Israel existed before splitting into two Israelite kingdoms occupying the highland zone
The Crusades, the Ottoman Empire, thankfully those only lasted a century and that’s when we determined who got what.
Yes I’m sure that since they didn’t have it before, they wouldn’t try to have it again. My point is not about nations that rise and fall. It’s that they will continue to rise and fall for this holy war on what they consider to be “their land”
Are you really sure that without US intervention, and the nation of Israel starting, there wouldn’t be orthodox Jewish terrorists on the other side of the border claiming it was “their land?”
Those claiming it’s “their land” will continue to fight, until everyone is dead. That’s my point.
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They have the right to call them whatever they want, that doesn't make it correct.
Neither does your opinion
https://ani.social/modlog?page=1&userId=10387
Its not a opinion if its a law...
Lmao, you’re seriously linking to a deleted comment to try to make your case?
Laws are, by definition, a legal opinion— which can be overturned, by the way, by another legal opinion. The only fact here is that it is, is some jurisdiction, a law.
That just is not the point. I mean, if you are involved in the conflict you can totally believe in anything, but the point is in the moment you call them terrorist and call it a day you lost any possibility to analyze the situation and understand WTF is happening and why.
BBC is not saying they are NOT terrorists, but it does not matter in this context.
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It's pretty ballsy to start using an alt with the same name as the last account you got banned under...
How long you think this one will last?
What my Shitjustworks account didn't get banned, i just saw the post with a alt. I have like 10 accounts.
Nope.
You're banned from all of lemmy.world
https://lemmy.world/u/CookieJarObserver@sh.itjust.works
And admittedly using a bunch of alts to circumvent it and keep posting the bullshit that got you banned.
No im not im still able to post and comment from sjw.
What list is this?